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15 Oct 2003, 18:43
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#1
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Historian
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 960
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China reaches for the stars
So: assuming taikonaut Yang Liwei is not incinerated on re-entry (which is unlikely, the Soyuz craft the Chinese copied is quite reliable) we now have three spacefaring nations in the world.
In terms of immediate impact, I can see this accelerating the space programs of sevral other nations, India being the main one, and there will be a push for China to sign all the cold-war era bilateral treaties signed by the US and the USSR regarding uses of space, but will there be any other real impact of this significant event?
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"Et nunc, reges, intelligite, er udimini, qui judicati terram"
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15 Oct 2003, 18:45
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#2
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And you expected Kittens?
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Purgatory, Upper Hell, Manchester.
Posts: 478
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Four Words - Zero Gravity Corner Shops
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If music be the food of love, then industrial techno be the food of BDSM.
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15 Oct 2003, 18:49
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#3
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Manned space flights are a waste of money.
China would have been better off using the money to send me tea (there's lots in China apparently) so that I could sell it to the tea-crazed Brits.
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15 Oct 2003, 18:58
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: China reaches for the stars
there will be a space race now. the US won' be happy.
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15 Oct 2003, 18:59
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#5
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: China reaches for the stars
I doubt it will have much political signifgance in real terms, but it is obviously a tremendous prestige boost for China, and is obviously going to provoke some measure of further competition in this field in the future.
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15 Oct 2003, 19:03
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#6
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: China reaches for the stars
it wouldn't surprise me if it pushes India and the ESA to building their own programs. It also strikes me that if we found ourselves with 5 spacefaring countries there might be a renewed space age and the first man on Mars could - COULD - occur within 10, 15 years. Maybe?
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15 Oct 2003, 19:05
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,944
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Maybe will force ESA not to just focus on unmanned flight
ha right
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15 Oct 2003, 19:10
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#8
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: China reaches for the stars
The main psychological impact will be if/when a country has a realstic plan to put a permanent outpost on either Mars or the Moon. Then we'll all be faced with "Vote for 500% Tax Increases or the Yella's will Colonise Mars!" campaigns ad nausea.
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15 Oct 2003, 19:29
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#9
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Well for example:
The EU's Galleao project has now got in bed with the Chinese. Which is a competing technology to the US's GPS.
Apprantly we are really competing... but ya'know
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15 Oct 2003, 19:38
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: China reaches for the stars
i dont see any point in shooting people into space. the us and ussr have already done so. so if the esa ever needs someone in space they could just buy a flight from these countries and use the money for other projects. there is no point in deveoping the same technology 3-4 times, is there?
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:01
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#11
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
there will be a space race now. the US won' be happy.
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A "race" presupposes some sort of goal. The relatively easy races (space, orbit, moon) have been won. Putting a man on Mars is certainly doable, but there's not much of a prize for winning--certainly not enough to even begin paying for the cost of doing it.
I expect China will stick to putting a few men in orbit. A manned orbital program isn't too expensive if you happen to be developing ICBMs anyway.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:04
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#12
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Cute and cuddly
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1,891
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Re: China reaches for the stars
it's all part of a chinese conspiracy. a conspiracy to do what I do not know, but it is devious and I expect the Illuminati are behind it.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:14
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#13
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
it wouldn't surprise me if it pushes India and the ESA to building their own programs. It also strikes me that if we found ourselves with 5 spacefaring countries there might be a renewed space age and the first man on Mars could - COULD - occur within 10, 15 years. Maybe?
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NOT - EVEN - CLOSE - TO - A - POSSIBILITY!
Try thinking 30 - 40 years.
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:23
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#14
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: China reaches for the stars
apparently the rocket is 'based' on russian technology but the chinese have improved on it,
unbelievable isnt it, we close down sangate and the bastards start parachuting in
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15 Oct 2003, 20:26
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#15
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
apparently the rocket is 'based' on russian technology but the chinese have improved on it
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Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
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15 Oct 2003, 20:33
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#16
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?
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yes that would be it, that same technology that was 'improved' on the germans* who probably got the idea for rockets from the...chinese!
* yes i know goddard or whatever developed liquid fueled rockets first but they were pretty pants.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:34
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#17
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloomers III
it's all part of a chinese conspiracy. a conspiracy to do what I do not know, but it is devious and I expect the Illuminati are behind it.
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Zero-gravity stir-fry is mere years away.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:39
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#18
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Historian
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 960
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?
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Thats an old bit of Cold-War propaganda coming to the surface in an ugly way.
In fact, the US stole almost as much Soviet technology as the Soviet stole American. in the 1960's the USSR was leading the way in a liberal assortment of fields, the one the fell behind on in the late 1970's and early 1980's (and never really caught up) was computers. However the Soviet space capsule was entirely domestic (not surprising as they got a man in space before the US did...) and as for the rockets, frankly both nations used a combination of domestic technology and stolen German technology.
CACR blades for helicopters, terminal pop-up missiles, reactive armour, single eye HUD, these, off the top of my head, are just a couple of the modern military inventions pioneered by the USSR, and taken by the west...
Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.
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"This is Rumour control, here are the facts..."
"Et nunc, reges, intelligite, er udimini, qui judicati terram"
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15 Oct 2003, 20:41
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#19
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: China reaches for the stars
But I like Cold War propaganda.
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Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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15 Oct 2003, 20:42
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#20
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
But I like Cold War propaganda.
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History Channel ++
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15 Oct 2003, 21:07
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
Thats an old bit of Cold-War propaganda coming to the surface in an ugly way.
Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.
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they changed quite a lot. they have about as much in common as the russian mir and the iss (or so i was told i another forum)
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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15 Oct 2003, 21:50
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Word
Posts: 1,651
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Re: China reaches for the stars
In the long term I think the 'Shenzhou' or whatever they're calling it might promote a little bit of rivalry between Russia and China for low budget launch jobs requiring some kind of human presence (not that I know there are any). In the short term it's a gigantic propaganda boost for China.
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That damn'd ill-natur'd baneful Vice,
Was Slave to Prodigality,
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Emply'd a Million of the Poor,
And odious Pride a Million more.'
-The Grumbling Hive: or, Knaves Turn'd Honest, Bernard Mandeville
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15 Oct 2003, 21:55
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#23
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Ancient
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Police states of America
Posts: 464
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.
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i belive its modified in that if they stick it on the end of one of their larger rockets, they can send it around the moon with no problems. (note: not on the moon. ) but don't quote me on that
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15 Oct 2003, 23:08
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#24
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Sub
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: University of Bath
Posts: 444
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Re: China reaches for the stars
If Command & Conquer has taught us anything, the Chinese will put satellites in space to fire big blue light at us. Be afraid.
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15 Oct 2003, 23:26
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,967
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Unless China is smart enough to beat us to Mars any future space race would be waste on China's part to get to the moon because the US was already there and there wasn't crap.
A lot was learned though, did you know the apollo missions gave birth to the first hand held calculators? Sure it would take 10 secs to 30 secs to do a math problem but it was usually faster then doing it by hand and more accurate.
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15 Oct 2003, 23:28
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#26
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Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
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Re: China reaches for the stars
I think the EU should try and get a frenchman into space. If successful they can send the rest of the buggers up as well
Vaio
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15 Oct 2003, 23:42
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,967
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
I think the EU should try and get a frenchman into space. If successful they can send the rest of the buggers up as well
Vaio
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Cause in space, no one can smell your BO.
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15 Oct 2003, 23:46
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#28
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super
If Command & Conquer has taught us anything, the Chinese will put satellites in space to fire big blue light at us. Be afraid.
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That's the Americans.
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15 Oct 2003, 23:50
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#29
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7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
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Re: China reaches for the stars
2-1 to the filthy commies.
I hear TPE is constructing a secret launch site too.
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<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world.
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15 Oct 2003, 23:52
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#30
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
2-1 to the filthy commies.
I hear TPE is constructing a secret launch site too.
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Last I heard the ESA had launched rockets.
2-2 by my count. PENALTIES!
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You're now playing ketchup
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15 Oct 2003, 23:58
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#31
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7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
Last I heard the ESA had launched rockets.
2-2 by my count. PENALTIES!
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They have no plans for manned missions tho.
(Yes I do know manned missions are pointless, i was being ironic)
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<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world.
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16 Oct 2003, 00:01
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#32
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Didn't know we were talking about manned ones.
Though that would make infinitely more sense. What with them sending a ma... **** it.
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16 Oct 2003, 00:19
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#33
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: China reaches for the stars
I can't wait to find out what the Mars probe finds out when that ESA jobby gets to mars.
Purely because the gripping mechanism was made by a Chinese dentist in Leicester
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16 Oct 2003, 00:24
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,967
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Its going to find Oxid Iron and rocks. Lots and Lots of rocks.
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16 Oct 2003, 01:23
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#35
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid00
Its going to find Oxid Iron and rocks. Lots and Lots of rocks.
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And maybe the underware I left drying on the line there in 1978...I mean...erm...I've said too much
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16 Oct 2003, 02:14
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#36
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: China reaches for the stars
I think people are underestimating what this means to china culturally speaking. Since 1422 China has not been an expansionist nation. When they were they were hands down the most advanced, the richest and the largest (in terms of population and it's related affects) state in the world.
Currently they have the second largest GNP in the world, with the fastest rate of growth in the top 20 nations. If China turned decisively expansionist the results would be phenomenal. People often forget that many chinese think of themselves as the middle kingdom. This is not a term which implies mediocrity but rather one that asserts that they are the centre of the world (culturally speaking it's analogous to the US calling on memories of it's greatness in either the late 19th century or after WWII, or Britain at the height of the British empire. There are still many who strongly believe in the merits of those days and those who would follow them.
Technologically this means relatively little. In terms of it's impact on the chinese psyche it's difficult to even guess as what we shall see develop out of this in the years to come.
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16 Oct 2003, 09:14
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: China reaches for the stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
A "race" presupposes some sort of goal. The relatively easy races (space, orbit, moon) have been won. Putting a man on Mars is certainly doable, but there's not much of a prize for winning--certainly not enough to even begin paying for the cost of doing it.
I expect China will stick to putting a few men in orbit. A manned orbital program isn't too expensive if you happen to be developing ICBMs anyway.
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well if they go for a permanent lunar outpost, that would be more interesting. then there would be a race.
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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