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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 11:17   #1
Ärketrollmannen
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So now we have to have armed guards constantly?

Our Swedish foreign minister has been stabbed to death when out shopping.

She was considered to be the next Swedish Prime minister and she could go without bodyguards, she lived at her house in Katrineholm without haveing armed guards and fences, she went to the supermarket to buy food herself.

To the uy that did it

Stuff it you ****ing ****.

We will get you and we will lock you up.

To all the people out in Sweden that feel the sorrow, and to Anna Lindhs husband and children.

My thoughts are with you

/Johan
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 11:59   #2
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That is so f'ked up. My condolences to the Swedish people

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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 12:04   #3
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See, people in my country are too goddamn lazy to stuff about with politicians. That's why sitting around all day drinking beer is
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 13:34   #4
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rip

the same thing happend to one of our politicians to a while ago
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 14:09   #5
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Part of the covenant our politicians sign with Satan gives them protection from stabbing.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 14:36   #6
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It's almost certainly political, indeed, such an assasination is political by it's nature.

I'd imagine it will dent the 'no' campaign considerably. The only consideration now is exactly how many sympathy votes this will create for the 'yes' campaign.

It's very sad when cowardly people such as this abuse such openess that operates for the overwhelming majority of people, who are interested in democracy and completely reject this sort of violent, pathetic action. It's a terrible shame that the campaigning period has been tainted by this.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 16:40   #7
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 17:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by KillGhost
rip

the same thing happend to one of our politicians to a while ago
yes it did, and we were equally apalled then.

he was shot tough wasn't he?

Here it was a knife for crying out loud, it does suggest that it wasn't planned.

Our SÄPO has taken a lot of flak for not having her guarded, but I ask myself, why would she be guarded?

Everybody loved her.

The only positive thing about it is that everyone has started talking about politics
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 17:26   #9
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My sincere condolences to the Swedish people. Even more to the two children of Lindh. Strength to the father. And the people of Sweden.

[disclaimer]Now, I am going to be cynical here. Ignore me or hate me. I don't lack sympathy but I wish to represent some views here.[/disclaimer]


But this bike is already getting out of control. Why? The Finnish people (for example, a random lady interviewed, who said she has no family contacts whatsoever friends in Sweden) are taking flowers and candles to the Swedish Embassy in Helsinki. Now, perhaps the leading Swedish politician was killed. I still can't figure why my mother is sitting in front of the TV watching every news broadcast that tells anything about the situation and simultaneously wasting tons of hankerchieves. Sobbing there. Now, does this really concern us Finns that much? Of course Sweden is our dear neighbouring country. Of course we share a lot in common (culturally, politically) with them.

But yet, I doubt it's a reason to start arming men HERE for ministers' safety (read: they have already adviced the ministers not to go outside alone. Outrageously ridiculous, I say). Of course, a serious, shocking crime has happened. But **** happens so to say. Perhaps some plot to kill Lindh, perhaps a random antenna-department guy (read, madman). Still, it may be a bit exaggerating for half the Europe to start an insane run for bulletproof windowshields for Paavo Lipponen's (again, one of the leading Finnish politicians) family car, don't you think?

Enough of my drivel. I made my point I guess.


What puzzles me, is the lack of efficiency of the security personnel around. Were there absolutely no security in the shopping center Lindh was in? Or was the security personnel too busy, or too far? Or was the killer just too fast? Quite stunning whatsoever, that he (or she, apparently a he) managed to stab Lindh several times, and, even with (I assume) like tens of people in the nearbyhood, flee from the shop and disappear into the streets.

Well, hopefully he'll get caught.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 17:43   #10
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I thank you but I also share your criticism.

It was a seriously ****ed up dude that did it.

nonone else is threatened, and I also share your negative feelings towards the bystanders. The warehouse was not full but there were a lot of peopke there. The guy was sprayed with blood, apparently soaked with it and noone really did anything. It is strange


Quote:
It's almost certainly political, indeed, such an assasination is political by it's nature.
Actually I believe it was just a ****head

Quote:
I'd imagine it will dent the 'no' campaign considerably. The only consideration now is exactly how many sympathy votes this will create for the 'yes' campaign.
One is one to many, a lot of people say that they will do waht Anna wanted them to.

Quote:
It's very sad when cowardly people such as this abuse such openess that operates for the overwhelming majority of people, who are interested in democracy and completely reject this sort of violent, pathetic action. It's a terrible shame that the campaigning period has been tainted by this.
Totally agree

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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 17:50   #11
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Now, one additional question, wich I the Swedish people will likely be better answering to.



How will this affect the EMU votings?


My five cents.

There will be a load of yes votes. Enter Euro, Sweden. Now, thinking of voting "Yes" for all the wrong reasons, this bumped up into my mind watching telly and noting the Finnish prime minister's comment on the situation - something like this could be interpreted - Swedish people should try keep the EMU voting and the Lindh -murder from each other, and try think of the EMU voting as a political descision rather than a vote "yes" vote for the memory of Anna Lindh.

Now, how do you think it'll go, Äker?
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 18:05   #12
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I believe this is waht gives the 'YES' side a chance.

Sadly enough, but I am happy for that, because I want the Euro, too bad it had to come to this however
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 19:16   #13
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
Actually I believe it was just a ****head
He's a rather calculating, well-organised '****head', then.

A ****head, however. I understand your point.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 19:46   #14
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Well he used a knife.

Wouldn't a pistol be a better alternative if he wanted to kill her?
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 19:50   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
Wouldn't a pistol be a better alternative if he wanted to kill her?
Not neccesarily. A knife can be better concealed, and is, needless to say, silent.

I didn't say that he wasn't in some measure a wacko, btw; I was just pointing out that he wasn't completely mad enough not to neglect basic precautions for such a crime. Which seems to imply some measure of forethought. Which, itself, probably implies a political motive.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 20:02   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Not neccesarily. A knife can be better concealed, and is, needless to say, silent.

I didn't say that he wasn't in some measure a wacko, btw; I was just pointing out that he wasn't completely mad enough not to neglect basic precautions for such a crime. Which seems to imply some measure of forethought. Which, itself, probably implies a political motive.
The stabbing drew as much attention as if the wacko had used a firearm.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 20:12   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red
The stabbing drew as much attention as if the wacko had used a firearm.
Did it? I doubt it.

When a person shoots another person, that shot creates a noise, and wounds that person. Therefore, we have people hearing and seeing immediately.

With a knife, you only get people seeing immediately, or at least, less people seeing immediately; the noise of the victim will likely be quiter than the gun.

A gun creates much more immediate attention than a knife. Depending on the situation, a knife may not even create any immediate attention, whilst a gun may.



Also, he may have not intended to attack her where he did; his hand may have been forced. If he had got her somewhere relatively hidden, and had attacked her from behind, who can say how long it would have been before someone noticed what was going on?
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 20:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Not neccesarily. A knife can be better concealed, and is, needless to say, silent.

I didn't say that he wasn't in some measure a wacko, btw; I was just pointing out that he wasn't completely mad enough not to neglect basic precautions for such a crime. Which seems to imply some measure of forethought. Which, itself, probably implies a political motive.
Well I can give it to you that he actually ran from the scene.

we had a maniac half a year ago here that drove through the old town ramming people with his car.

he claimed that his "enemy" had taken control of the car.

He just stepped out afterwards, with wounded all around him.

his punishment is his decease, this guy actually seemed to know what he was doing
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 21:01   #19
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This reminds me of when that dutch fag got killed.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:14   #20
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She was the favourite cabinet member of both me and my wife despite the fact that neither of us voted for her party. She was sensible, level-headed and when she spoke it made sense.

Anna, you will be missed.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:37   #21
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Only one person was killed. How likely is it that this person should be a well known politician if she was a random victim? How many stab-and-run's are there regularilly in sweden?
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:44   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chax
She was the favourite cabinet member of both me and my wife despite the fact that neither of us voted for her party. She was sensible, level-headed and when she spoke it made sense.

Anna, you will be missed.
Never heard of her until yesterday. I won't miss her, just like i wouldn't miss the Angolan president or whatever if he or she were to be murdered. I wouldn't miss Blair either \o/. It's one less politician in this world, which can really only be a positive thing.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:45   #23
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Rest In Peace

:eek: and i thought Sweden was like the nicest place on earth or something.

My heart goes out to Anna Lindhs' family.

Surely this will just push Sweden into accepting the Euro.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:54   #24
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I feel sad for a dead person, and i understand the fuss in that it created in Sweden, but i agree whit Tietäjä on the "security" for our top politicans. The fuzz it has created here is unbelivabale, much more then i would have expected. I mean, it's sad, it's shocking, and it's a setback for the "democracy" we have in our part of the world, but still, it's still just a dead person.
Oh, and the way i see it, as a oustider, is that it's either a nasjonalist/nazi (They're quite dangerous over in Sweden, are they not?) or some wacko.

Not meaning to sound cold or cynical, but it's just the way i feel.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
it's a setback for the "democracy" we have in our part of the world,
care to explain?
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:01   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
I feel sad for a dead person, and i understand the fuss in that it created in Sweden, but i agree whit Tietäjä on the "security" for our top politicans. The fuzz it has created here is unbelivabale, much more then i would have expected. I mean, it's sad, it's shocking, and it's a setback for the "democracy" we have in our part of the world, but still, it's still just a dead person.
Oh, and the way i see it, as a oustider, is that it's either a nasjonalist/nazi (They're quite dangerous over in Sweden, are they not?) or some wacko.

Not meaning to sound cold or cynical, but it's just the way i feel.
incidently www.info14.com (a neonazi page) rubricated it as "the attack on the peoplestraitor (if that is a word)

I say to hell with nazis, they can go **** themselves
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:09   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
incidently www.info14.com (a neonazi page) rubricated it as "the attack on the peoplestraitor (if that is a word)

I say to hell with nazis, they can go **** themselves
You actually listen to nazis? lol
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:14   #28
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Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer

dunno who said it but it makes sense
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:16   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer

dunno who said it but it makes sense
You best go catch her murderer then.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:25   #30
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I do actually believe that the police are better suited for that job
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 01:34   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
I do actually believe that the police are better suited for that job
wait! shouldent the police have protected her in the first place?
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 06:55   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer
Sun Tzu?

Now, whomever it was, I'm going to continue my rant on how I feel about the crime scenario.

Now, it was either a cunning plot or just some random madman, randomly choosing Anna Lindh as his target. With no further motivation required on the latter one.

Why?

Think about it.

They say the bloke was in the end of the staircase waiting for Lindh. Now, possibly, if he was waiting for Lindh, he would've had to know Lindh's plans for the evening quite well - I don't think Lindh would've ran around shouting I'M GOING TO THE K. FILIPPA SHOP TODAY, COME AND STAB ME. Rather, only her family and maybe some co-workers may have known about her plans. It sounds rather outrageous that some cool, planning killer would wait for weeks standing in a shop's staircase waiting for Lindh to appear. There's a chance he had followed Lindh, but at least, there is no evidence of such. Perhaps the guy just snapped, and stabbed the lady a few times then ran away. Dropped his bloody jacket on the street later on, and managed to loose the knife to (they've found that, but do they have the forenics labs results yet? - either way, there may or may not be fingerprints, or samples).

Now, if it was something they call political assasination, someone must have leaked Lindh's plans pretty effectively, because I don't see any cunning plans of a murder made to rely on "if she comes to this store today". Also, if it was an assasination, there will be no fingerprints or signs whatsoever on the knife (HAA & LOO Swedish police forenics). Wonder wonder. A half a dozen (don't know any official counts) knife stabs sounds rather harsh for a pro, a wound or two should've made it better, cleaner. Although, whilst time didn't seem to be a factor with the ignorant Swedish bystanders and store security (if any) perhaps it pleased the (assumed) assassin to throw a few flesh wounds more.

Enough of my drivel.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 12:39   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tietäjä
I don't think Lindh would've ran around shouting I'M GOING TO THE K. FILIPPA SHOP TODAY, COME AND STAB ME. Rather, only her family and maybe some co-workers may have known about her plans.
not nescessarily. He could have been a stalker, or at the very least, known of a regular shopping plan. If anyone wanted to kill me they could always find me on a saturday at about 1pm in the local supermarket... she is a well recognised politician, so it is definitely not beyond belief that this was planned.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 13:13   #34
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bit of a shame really.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 14:38   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
not nescessarily. He could have been a stalker, or at the very least, known of a regular shopping plan. If anyone wanted to kill me they could always find me on a saturday at about 1pm in the local supermarket... she is a well recognised politician, so it is definitely not beyond belief that this was planned.
The Filippa K part was sposed to clarify that it wasn't a wall mart.

She was apparently trying to find some neat clothes to wear.

Not a cucumber. Nor saturday dinner.

Hence, I doubt she's there every saturday 1 pm.

Yes, a stalker, he could've anticipated her going up the stairs and going first there himself to wait.
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 15:30   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tietäjä
Sun Tzu?

Now, whomever it was, I'm going to continue my rant on how I feel about the crime scenario.

Now, it was either a cunning plot or just some random madman, randomly choosing Anna Lindh as his target. With no further motivation required on the latter one.

Why?

Think about it.

They say the bloke was in the end of the staircase waiting for Lindh. Now, possibly, if he was waiting for Lindh, he would've had to know Lindh's plans for the evening quite well - I don't think Lindh would've ran around shouting I'M GOING TO THE K. FILIPPA SHOP TODAY, COME AND STAB ME. Rather, only her family and maybe some co-workers may have known about her plans. It sounds rather outrageous that some cool, planning killer would wait for weeks standing in a shop's staircase waiting for Lindh to appear. There's a chance he had followed Lindh, but at least, there is no evidence of such. Perhaps the guy just snapped, and stabbed the lady a few times then ran away. Dropped his bloody jacket on the street later on, and managed to loose the knife to (they've found that, but do they have the forenics labs results yet? - either way, there may or may not be fingerprints, or samples).

Now, if it was something they call political assasination, someone must have leaked Lindh's plans pretty effectively, because I don't see any cunning plans of a murder made to rely on "if she comes to this store today". Also, if it was an assasination, there will be no fingerprints or signs whatsoever on the knife (HAA & LOO Swedish police forenics). Wonder wonder. A half a dozen (don't know any official counts) knife stabs sounds rather harsh for a pro, a wound or two should've made it better, cleaner. Although, whilst time didn't seem to be a factor with the ignorant Swedish bystanders and store security (if any) perhaps it pleased the (assumed) assassin to throw a few flesh wounds more.

Enough of my drivel.
She was aparently stabbed around three times in a short "burst" it wasn't as he was standing over her stabbing her for half an hour. But I do actually agree with you. The NK costumers COULD have stopped him, it was ONE man, and he was (probably) unarmed except for the knife.

A few people blocking the way could have been enough for the guards to get there.

Now most people didn't have a clue on what was going on, they just continued shopping.
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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