Activity vs Skill

[Appanouki]

Now we all know that there is some skill and talent involved in a good PA player. He needs to be highly numerate, good time management, etc etc. BUT he cannot be in the top 100 without excellent activity, and this is almost a guarantee.

I believe that this game leans too heavily towards the activity side. While it is a quality, it can be a damaging and an over emphasised one. It basically means that unless you are prepared to devote a good 25% of your day (and night) to fiddling with some text values in a browser, you are not going to get a good alliance or score. I am strongly of the belief that this is a primary reason (along with the lack of graphics, newb support, etc) that many new players do not endure here. It also means that unless you have an office job or are unemployed, you cannot win. It doesn't matter if you are a mathematical genius.

In my first round here I was able to reach and hold a rank of above 25, for a while too. This was partly the result of the fact that I'm pretty mathematically and strategically inclined, but the overwhelming reason is because I was sitting in my room at college smoking pot and playing this game for atleast 6-10 hours a day. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, and I highly doubt that more than 10 people in the top 100 lead normal and productive lives either.

So what I am ultimately saying is; do you guys think that the fact that this game relies so heavily on being extremely active is a bad thing too? Do you think that the game should favour raw skill and talent more? Do you not agree that if that was so, more newbies would be held and absorbed? Are there any ways in which such a fundemental thing can be changed easily?



I realise that this thread is strongly worded, I'm just a bit drunk thats all so please chill with the flaming and focus on what I'm trying to discuss instead.

[Squidly]

Interesting question tbh.

I think... I think activity and skill are too intertwined to the point where seperation isn't possible.

You can be mathmatically and strategically inclined, but that only goes so far... Why should someone who launches their fleet and goes to sleep do better than someone who launches/fakes/relaunches/makes DE look like BS etc and actually makes the effort to drain def ships and really screw over opposing DCs?

Don't get me wrong here... if I did well with my crap activity this past round I'd be doing a little dance every time I log onto irc

By the sounds if it, you're advocating giving the more average-time players a bit more of an advantage, which is fair enough. We don't want to discourage active players... and I'm not seeing any real way to help the average-players without hurting the active ones.

Kind of a balance issue if that makes any sense. Just some random thoughts though

[Kargool]

The game is buildt for both to be an important part of your preformance.. And if you are an mathematical genious, wouldnt you hold an office job?

I think that activity is important, but I dont really agree with you on that math subject.. We have calculators for everything, so anyone with decent time and knowhow can use theese calculators to estimate battles.. I know, I use em all the time and usually quite well (cept ofc when I send the wrong shiptype to the wrong target etc :-p but notbody is perfect)

The game allowed prelaunches, and that pretty much gives the new players an fair advantage, they dont need to stay up to 0400 to win the game etc.

But thoose who stay up and hang around in channels is also the ones creating the great community of PA. I would prefer it like it is now really.

[Cut Tooth]

Anyone that is active, has half a brain and takes the time and has the willingness to learn from others can become "tactically" good at this game. Just as you improve at anything you persevere with whether it be badminton or chess. Sure if this person happens to be in a good alliance surrounded by brilliant PA legends he/she will progress quicker. You could come to this game as a mathmatical genius and have read Sun-tzu's Art of war, be a great chess player aware of tactics like skewers, forks discovered attacks and use this way of thought in Planetarion. This training of thought would help. But Planetarion is real time and thats the point. The out come of a great attack isn't immediately after launching your ships its about being online to pull them if needed (as mentioned above).

Alot of the players that do well every round do so because they surround themselves with other good players; from what alliance you're in to what galaxy you're in. The longer you play the better you become and meet better players..

[Appanouki]

Edit: This is in response to Kargool

I'm not saying that devotion of time should not be important, I'm saying its vastly over-important.

So you are saying that being able to quickly determine ratios, judge fleet weaknesses, understand graphs, and frankly just play the game does not require any mathematical skill? A battle calc is a tool, but far from a perfect substitution for the human and therefore I totally disagree. Infact I do most battle calcs in my head if it's not complicated. (I got shit for this when I was a DC haha)

If you are not 6 hours active a day, a good alliance will not accept you for the simple reason that you cannot offer proper defense. Plus, if you do not check your account very often there are numerous things that can quickly go wrong.


(Btw, I can think of a staggering amount of office jobs which do not require particularly good mathematical skills and likewise other jobs that do... so that was a little silly to say when you think about it.)

[Appanouki]

I agree with you cut tooth, but I think its important to distinguish between time investment in learning the game, and time investment in playing the game. Yes, if pretty much anyone spends enough time learning, no matter what the other factors are, he will eventually get good. But what I'm actually getting at is once you know the game, you still have to pile huge amounts of time into this game to get a good rank round after round.

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

I agree with you cut tooth, but I think its important to distinguish between time investment in learning the game, and time investment in playing the game. Yes, if pretty much anyone spends enough time learning, no matter what the other factors are, he will eventually get good. But what I'm actually getting at is once you know the game, you still have to pile huge amounts of time into this game to get a good rank round after round.

I can see sort of what you're getting at... but how would you diminish the amount of emphasis placed on time without hurting those who put in more dedication than others?

[Appanouki]

This is precisely what I would like to discuss Squidly I really don't know the answer myself or have any suggestions for that matter, but I would like to draw people's attention to it.

Clearly it would be necessary not to eliminate the benefits of putting alot of time and work into the game.... so there must be an appropriate balance. perhaps some people think that balance is already met?

I think its fair to say too, that there is a diminishing returns effect on time spent on PA.

Edti: I'm sorry, I did not see your post further up you put alot of what I said here quite well already.

[Cut Tooth]

I see what you're saying Appanouki :-) . I don't think this problem could be solved with a ticks @ every hour. Of course you could have fewer ticks per day or change the game so it isnt tick based. Personally I think it might make the game poor to change it in that way.

[Squidly]

That was my concern... As I do believe skill and activity are way too intertwined....

Prelaunch is one such feature that allows the less-hardcore players to still launch at the early hours without having to actually be around...

Other such options... possibly a very short sleep mode? although that's been shot down in past debates... Another such idea could be to allow a switch of "active/not overly active" for example that would put a restriction on the number of hours one could be logged into PA... in exchange for a bonus of resources or something.

I wouldn't advocate such a suggestion though as I imagine abuse would run rampant.

[Kargool]

The more we create this game to adjust for the people being lesser active, the more we kill off the game's community imho..

When people start to see that they dont really have to be on irc, that they dont really have to be active in that part of the game, they stop going to irc, the people around diminish...

After all, this game is a game about politics more than a game about capping the most roids. That was how Spinner created the game, and thats how I think it should stay.

[Appanouki]

I definitely see what you are saying about the community, and as far as I can see activity and community are quite inseperable although someone else might have some thoughts on this.

about politics... there are other ways to promote politics than just force people to be online long enough that they will eventually get involved plus this does not help new players getting involved in politics. One of my past suggestions for increasing the political side of the game is to have a universal ingame forum where different areas are accessible by different ranks of people within alliances and galaxies etc, but I think we diverge here lol

Are there any other ways to decrease the effectiveness of prolonged activity? I know quite a few people who have to work and sleep etc, but would love to get into the game properly without being discouraged by persistently low ranks.

[Cut Tooth]

Personally as i've said before I think having fewer ticks is the onlw way to do this really, - And I think the majority of PA players like hour/tick. The game promotes activity in just the way it works, such as having to be online when ships are produced or the current research finishes, but I get the general feeling that most people are happy with the way that works. I thinking changing PA in this way would compoletely change it beyond recognition. If you changed PA so that when you do attacks they are instantaneous and just after clicking the launch button you see the results, you would lose sooo much of the game.. To achieve what you're suggesting would have to mean removing time consuming acts like eta's on fleets, i think really to be honest you would have to find another game to achive what you want

Edit: I don't mean that in anyway to sound horrible

[isildurx]

There are more factors than skill and activity imo.

The most important one is activity, too be on to check fo rincs etc, attack al the time +++

Nowadays i dont se how many p.a players can say that theyre more 'skilled' that anyone else, seeing as most people have the same kinda fleets, attacks the same kinda targets, the only difference how often they do it and how organised they do it.

That brings me to me third factor which is alliance\friends. Now this i feel is a extremely important factor. Some might wanna put it under the 'skills' factor, but fact is getting a respectble position without friends\alliance backing you up is very hard. And if youre friends are really great you dont have to have such a high activity, as they can report your incs to your alliance etc.

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Cut Tooth

Personally as i've said before I think having fewer ticks is the onlw way to do this really, - And I think the majority of PA players like hour/tick. The game promotes activity in just the way it works, such as having to be online when ships are produced or the current research finishes, but I get the general feeling that most people are happy with the way that works. I thinking changing PA in this way would compoletely change it beyond recognition. If you changed PA so that when you do attacks they are instantaneous and just after clicking the launch button you see the results, you would lose sooo much of the game.. To achieve what you're suggesting would have to mean removing time consuming acts like eta's on fleets, i think really to be honest you would have to find another game to achive what you want

Edit: I don't mean that in anyway to sound horrible

I may actually get roids some day though with that method

[cypher]

it's just not really true... friends make up for a lot.... if i want i can have friends sort me targets every day which in the end means i don't have to do fk all except prelaunch and def..... which means i can have a proper planet with 'playing' pa 20 min a day easily

[Tomkat]

It's the same for any game though, surely?

A professional footballer puts loads of time into training etc.
Someone who is ace at say, Counterstrike or something has put shitloads of time getting to that stage, learning the maps etc.
Someone who does really well at a game like WoW is someone who has put lots of time into it.

PA isn't any different. Those who want to win and succeed will put the time and effort in. It isn't fair to take this from them and have a bunch of people putting one hour a day in and doing better than them, is it?

[Stoom]

Originally Posted by cypher

it's just not really true... friends make up for a lot.... if i want i can have friends sort me targets every day which in the end means i don't have to do fk all except prelaunch and def..... which means i can have a proper planet with 'playing' pa 20 min a day easily

True, Kree was top 100 first half of last round by coming online about 30 mins a day, sadly enough he was in my bp and quit after losing a bunch of roids :<

[qebab]

Originally Posted by Stoom

True, Kree was top 100 first half of last round by coming online about 30 mins a day, sadly enough he was in my bp and quit after losing a bunch of roids :<

Thats not the whole story though. And yeah, he was top 50 between tick 150 and tick 600 or something, and he was never on IRC for more than an hour straight. I claimed targets for him on a lot of occasions though, and had him smsed before tp. He had genuine RL problems when he left though (Doesn't mean it didn't disappoint me. It lost me some of the joy of the game, when he left without notice.).

[Buddah]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Now we all know that there is some skill and talent involved in a good PA player. He needs to be highly numerate, good time management, etc etc. BUT he cannot be in the top 100 without excellent activity, and this is almost a guarantee.

i stopped after reading that, and thats just so piss wrong
top50 you can play uberhalf assed even top25
top10 demands activty. im prime example fs, just ask cocteau or elviz ^^

[frostbeule]

well tbh you dont need that much brains to play PA - there arent many skills. sending a fleet can be done by everyone (looking what is best with a bcalc as well), scrolling through the universe and find a nice target is easy with pilkara, and for the rest you have your gal (telling you what inc you have, what times are best to atack...)
so if you are active 24/7 you will win if you dont get too much inc landing on you.

[Alessio]

Activity.. Skill.. whatever

It's mainly about cooperation

[isildurx]

A good gal + ally can easily boost you to top25 with some attacking luck.

[cypher]

Originally Posted by Buddah

i stopped after reading that, and thats just so piss wrong
top50 you can play uberhalf assed even top25
top10 demands activty. im prime example fs, just ask cocteau or elviz ^^

lol since when are you a good player?:P <3 buddah

Originally Posted by frostbeule

well tbh you dont need that much brains to play PA - there arent many skills. sending a fleet can be done by everyone (looking what is best with a bcalc as well), scrolling through the universe and find a nice target is easy with pilkara, and for the rest you have your gal (telling you what inc you have, what times are best to atack...)
so if you are active 24/7 you will win if you dont get too much inc landing on you.

if it would be that easy everyone would be t10 :P but it's not that easy either

[Seth Mace]

Dont forget lightsabre skillz!!

This is a topic i've contemplated a few times before, how to make PA more gratifying for new players who have no contacts, experience or knowledge of how to increase your chances of planetary success.

Each time I looked back to my experience in PA for answers. This time dedicated to improve your chances, well it was a challenge in itself and as some have already said, it's a part of the game. The game itself is pretty easy but working your life around the game to mingle with the community and monitor your planet isnt, I suppose thats what PA is all about!

As for making life easier for new players, well i think part of the fun is learning from your mistakes & experiences. I think many players who are still around today owe a lot to the likes of Fury, who bashed them and in turn p1ssed them off so much they seeked revenge?

[Gate]

I'm sure Rob didn't spend that much time playing active last round?

If you are a skilled player and in a good alliance, it's perfectly possible to get an excellent round in by committing less than an hour a day to teh game (and you can do other stuff whislt you're playing as well), so long as you log in to attack, check jgps, run fleet and offer defence.

Originally Posted by frostbeule

so if you are active 24/7 you will win if you dont get too much inc landing on you.

There are some players who will lose lots of roids or fleet and still get a good rank, even if they are not playing uberactive. I think this shows there is skill involved in planetarion. Unless you are an officer in command of fleets, there is not much that activity genuinely does to help you until you are attacking or under attack.

I feel that for a basic member, their own skill and their alliance (or BG, even) are the most important factors, rather than massive activity; though activity also has its own rewards.

[Cannon_Fodder]

[Suggestion]
If you could select your next research/construction while one is ongoing. Active people wouldn't miss many ticks in the first place, but lesser active people wouldnt be so far behind by missing half a day of ticks between selections.
[/Suggestion]

[isildurx]

I wouldnt mind that lol, would make me sleep more the first days

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by sniborp

[Suggestion]
If you could select your next research/construction while one is ongoing. Active people wouldn't miss many ticks in the first place, but lesser active people wouldnt be so far behind by missing half a day of ticks between selections.
[/Suggestion]

i like this idea. if prelaunch is doable, pre res/cons should be doable too. i left the game for a while because my work schedule didnt allow me to be online in the overnight hours. and thats just a fact with this game, you have to have some ability to be on or near a computer in the late night hours. being on during the day is nice and welcomed, but the majority of attacks happen after midnight on the game clock and thats when it matters if you are online. it would be nice to be able to pre res/cons so you didnt have to miss too many ticks with that, but as far as making the game easier for "less active" people, i just dont see how it could be done and still maintain the game. after all, isnt the idea of launching your attack at 0400 because there wont be as many ppl online? as was stated earlier, if you want to be the best, you have to work harder than the other guy, and in this game that means being active and having friends active more than the other guy.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by sniborp

[Suggestion]
If you could select your next research/construction while one is ongoing. Active people wouldn't miss many ticks in the first place, but lesser active people wouldnt be so far behind by missing half a day of ticks between selections.
[/Suggestion]

I agree with the research part.
Missing ticks for research is pretty lame yeah, since they already take ages.
You can also follow different research path's so the choises you'll have to make would stay the same.

But I disagree when it comes to constructions.
First off that would be too much of an advantage for Terran scanner.
and besides that I think if you want to speed up constructions, to outbuild others, then it should require a certain amount of activity.

It's easy to act like research and constructions are one thing, but they have completely different roles in the game

[Appanouki]

I do like his suggestion too

research has a number of things that could be improved (such as depth/speciality as well) and that particular suggestion is new and works well to favour those with less time on their hands.

To those who said an hour or less is all thats needed to be in top 100, I think that you are wrong about this because you are naming exceptional circumstances. Cypher I've been in your gal and I've seen the amount of friends that will rally to your aid, but this just simply isnt the same for most people I mean, yes, if all you need to do every day is log on once, pick up two targets from your alliance, build some ships and a construction and set a fleet to go... then it will only take you 20 mins. But if you need to check your planet often for incoming (because most people are not in a good alliance or gal), actually need to stick around to offer defence, socialise on IRC, pick some intelligent targets on sandmans, and just really play the game well... then 20 mins isn't going to hack it by a long shot.

Someone also said that PA is like any other game or sport, and devotion and time should be relevant. I completely agree with this and you should realise that I'm not suggesting that we totally eliminate it from the equation for success, just simply tone it down and balance it. Please don't make me repeat that a third time lol.

[Appanouki]

I think I should point out that my 6-10 hours is a little bias because I was an officer and I was in Coven, so my view is a bit more towards a tough game, but I still feel that activity is too important now that I have experienced the game outside that situation.

[Rikard]

4hour ticks ftw!

[Sjor]

Originally Posted by Stoom

True, Kree was top 100 first half of last round by coming online about 30 mins a day, sadly enough he was in my bp and quit after losing a bunch of roids :<

was the nice xraid bg
think we had 6 ppl in top 50

[frostbeule]

Originally Posted by cypher

if it would be that easy everyone would be t10 :P but it's not that easy either

Originally Posted by frostbeule

so if you are active 24/7 you will win if you dont get too much inc landing on you.

Obviously you get too much inc laning on you if you have a better rank
But if you would be active 24/7 you still could run your fleet => if you dont get fleetcatched you wont loose that much in value during the game.

[Legator]

ttbh depends all on way of playing and luck.

i was ranked #59 in the end in round 15 with like 1 hour or maybe 1,5 on irc. i wasnt in an alliance. "all" i had were 3 mates and me who took easily a gal daily. we were all one race (cath) so it was very easy to get roids. they went mostly for xp while i had a rather big value for some xpwh0re. of these 3 mates the other one ended even above me while the 3rd ended top 150 (he did play like first 2 or 3 weeks of the round) and the 4th was top 200 too - if im not mistaken.

i agree we had alot of luck (maybe) plus i had an awesome gal which defended me heavily (tho it was ranked #40 in the end). all i i/we did was that one of us searched a gal and picked targets and the others just waved these picked planets or took another one in that gal, then we prelaunched and slept 8 hours a night .

of course the political situation of the round played into our hands but all we did was attacking daily with 2 fleets. costed me around 1 hour irc time a day and a few checkings if a target had def. i didnt sacrifice my "life" at all for it eventho i doubt i could redo it. all i try to say is that it is possible to play quite successful with a minimum of timeinput if you play wisely.

[Sjor]

Originally Posted by Legator

ttbh depends all on way of playing and luck.

i was ranked #59 in the end in round 15 with like 1 hour or maybe 1,5 on irc. i wasnt in an alliance. "all" i had were 3 mates and me who took easily a gal daily. we were all one race (cath) so it was very easy to get roids. they went mostly for xp while i had a rather big value for some xpwh0re. of these 3 mates the other one ended even above me while the 3rd ended top 150 (he did play like first 2 or 3 weeks of the round) and the 4th was top 200 too - if im not mistaken.

i agree we had alot of luck (maybe) plus i had an awesome gal which defended me heavily (tho it was ranked #40 in the end). all i i/we did was that one of us searched a gal and picked targets and the others just waved these picked planets or took another one in that gal, then we prelaunched and slept 8 hours a night .

of course the political situation of the round played into our hands but all we did was attacking daily with 2 fleets. costed me around 1 hour irc time a day and a few checkings if a target had def. i didnt sacrifice my "life" at all for it eventho i doubt i could redo it. all i try to say is that it is possible to play quite successful with a minimum of timeinput if you play wisely.

dont talk BS
beeing fully allied to the penis ally made u an extreme powerfull mega super block. none beide angels attacked u. angels used all the forces this round to kill half of your block (DG)

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Sjor

dont talk BS
beeing fully allied to the penis ally made u an extreme powerfull mega super block. none beide angels attacked u. angels used all the forces this round to kill half of your block (DG)

there was no need to give this sensible information to public

i didnt count Dunkelgraf to the 4 i mentioned btw tho he deffed me and saved me from dying once !!! (support planets FTW!!!!!111 )

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Legator

ttbh depends all on way of playing and luck.

i was ranked #59 in the end in round 15 with like 1 hour or maybe 1,5 on irc. i wasnt in an alliance. "all" i had were 3 mates and me who took easily a gal daily. we were all one race (cath) so it was very easy to get roids. they went mostly for xp while i had a rather big value for some xpwh0re. of these 3 mates the other one ended even above me while the 3rd ended top 150 (he did play like first 2 or 3 weeks of the round) and the 4th was top 200 too - if im not mistaken.

Etc.

I doubt you could do it again, especially if you arent in a top gal who are willing to def you while you xp whore.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by sniborp

Etc.

I doubt you could do it again, especially if you arent in a top gal who are willing to def you while you xp whore.

as i said, i doubt it myself. i wasnt really xp-whoring atleast not as much as my mates. i had a value of 2,6 mio or so in the end. (tho i still had a big xp - 70k if i recall right).

but you dont need a top gal to be deffed in a good way. my galaxy (1:9 ftw!) was ranked #40 in the end and most of the round even worse and we still defended a hell of alot ingal. most of us didnt have an alliance most of the round so we organized ourselfs very good ingal.

they just didnt attack as much and not as luckily as me.

[Appanouki]

Way to diverge from the topic man. We're not really interested in your experiences unless they are properly applicable to what we are talking about and you link it as an example to something actually relevant.

basically piss off.

[s7n]

I played round 15, not being as active as i have usually played, being max 3 hours a day on Planetarion (maybe a bit more), i finished well in the top 100. In my opinion luck has something to do with it aswell, as a noob can play one 10 minutes a day, but get very lucky and piggy on one of the top 10 planets, to make him self jump huge amounts of score. Or just getting defence every time you getting attacked.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Way to diverge from the topic man. We're not really interested in your experiences unless they are properly applicable to what we are talking about and you link it as an example to something actually relevant.

basically piss off.

nice way of talking......

i thought your thread was about activity and ranking......you said you need to be very acitve to get a good ranking and i said you are not while i gave an example.

[Desse]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Way to diverge from the topic man. We're not really interested in your experiences unless they are properly applicable to what we are talking about and you link it as an example to something actually relevant.

basically piss off.

You sir, are a dickhead.

This thread is about activity vs other skills(whatever they are. Legator reaching top100 proves that this game is purely about luck)

He responded to the discussion based on his personal experience last round. Asking him to piss off from taking part in a discussion is plain rude.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Desse

This thread is about activity vs other skills(whatever they are. Legator reaching top100 proves that this game is purely about luck)

thanks desse - even if i cannot fully agree with your opinion

[Appanouki]

Yes, that really proves this game is purely about luck. Your logic is simply stunning.

Why don't you go read his first post again? Or maybe for the first time?

[Desse]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Yes, that really proves this game is purely about luck. Your logic is simply stunning.

Why don't you go read his first post again? Or maybe for the first time?

I just reread his post again.

He states the environment he played in and based on that he makes this conclusion:

"all i try to say is that it is possible to play quite successful with a minimum of timeinput if you play wisely."

So as far as i can see is adding to the discussion you put forth.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Yes, that really proves this game is purely about luck. Your logic is simply stunning.

Why don't you go read his first post again? Or maybe for the first time?

i would suggest you read your own first post for the first time or even better you explain where i was offtopic ? i just stated the obvious.

[lofty]

Originally Posted by Appanouki

Now we all know that there is some skill and talent involved in a good PA player. He needs to be highly numerate, good time management, etc etc. BUT he cannot be in the top 100 without excellent activity, and this is almost a guarantee.

I believe that this game leans too heavily towards the activity side. While it is a quality, it can be a damaging and an over emphasised one. It basically means that unless you are prepared to devote a good 25% of your day (and night) to fiddling with some text values in a browser, you are not going to get a good alliance or score. I am strongly of the belief that this is a primary reason (along with the lack of graphics, newb support, etc) that many new players do not endure here. It also means that unless you have an office job or are unemployed, you cannot win. It doesn't matter if you are a mathematical genius.

In my first round here I was able to reach and hold a rank of above 25, for a while too. This was partly the result of the fact that I'm pretty mathematically and strategically inclined, but the overwhelming reason is because I was sitting in my room at college smoking pot and playing this game for atleast 6-10 hours a day. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, and I highly doubt that more than 10 people in the top 100 lead normal and productive lives either.

So what I am ultimately saying is; do you guys think that the fact that this game relies so heavily on being extremely active is a bad thing too? Do you think that the game should favour raw skill and talent more? Do you not agree that if that was so, more newbies would be held and absorbed? Are there any ways in which such a fundemental thing can be changed easily?

I realise that this thread is strongly worded, I'm just a bit drunk thats all so please chill with the flaming and focus on what I'm trying to discuss instead.

good question, but tbh it is a problem that has plagued pa since rnd 3, heh.

[Appanouki]

Legator, I'm really not interested in people trying to name exceptional circumstances, such as yourself, and then trying to pin some generic hypothesis on it.

I simply asked if anyone had any ideas on how to tweak the balance of skill vs activity, or explain where they thought the balance lies.

You post was useless, and it set the thread convo down an irrelevant path.