And this paper gets less shelf space than the Daily Fascist.. sorry Mail.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Gayle29uk

They weren't county council jobs were they?

No, both manufacturing jobs.

~Vaio~

[Gayle29uk]

Originally Posted by Vaio

No, both manufacturing jobs.

~Vaio~

Fair enough, I was just aware that your county council recently outsourced their IT support.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Then you either didn't understand it or didn't want to.

~Vaio~

so you oppose the hiring of willing workers for lower wages with those wages being reinvested in the local economy and the business in question profiting from it all because...pixies told you to?

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Where you sacked/not-selected because your ex-companies found they could employe these people at a cheaper rate?
Are you saying these people are better trained than their British counterparts due to the EU funded training-schemes?

The ex-companies can and do employ them at a cheaper rate and they are happier to work longer hours.

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Phang

so you oppose the hiring of willing workers for lower wages with those wages being reinvested in the local economy and the business in question profiting from it all because...pixies told you to?

When the employers are employing migrant workers instead of the local population, the local economy suffers.

~Vaio~

[Stew]

Vaio - you're arguing with everyone in this thread, including yourself

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Gayle29uk

Fair enough, I was just aware that your county council recently outsourced their IT support.

Yes, I was a bit unhappy about that but the department was run by an arsehole.

~Vaio~

[Weeks]

Well, I'd say the social problems that immigration brings to the job market, ie companies being able to employe foreign workers at a cheaper rate for longer hours over British workers who wouldn't work those hours for that amount money, are best suited to regulating the job market more than shutting our doors to immigrant workers.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Stew

Vaio - you're arguing with everyone in this thread, including yourself

Am I ?

I must have missed that bit

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Well, I'd say the social problems that immigration brings to the job market, ie companies being able to employe foreign workers at a cheaper rate for longer hours over British workers who wouldn't work those hours for that amount money, are best suited to regulating the job market more than shutting our doors to immigrant workers.

That would work, but while we are apparently part of the European Union, that won't happen.

~Vaio~

[Weeks]

Immigration and the issues that it brings to the job market are Europe-wide issues, especially as we operate, and must operate in order maintain decent economy, in the single european market.

Whilst Britain needs the economic benefits that the EU brings (the single economic market) but maintains a isolationist policy towards Europe it'll never forge an EU policy that addresses these issues.

You can't demand to be in the backseat then complain about where you're going.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Vaio

When the employers are employing migrant workers instead of the local population, the local economy suffers.

no, it doesn't, this is complete bollocks. It's only a problem when the money is being taken out of the country - in the case of temp workers with work permits (bosnian builders, for example) - this IS a problem but overlooked as it is a neccessary service. In the case of people who want to become a useful part of the community, and earn and spend money in britain, it IS a problem for many, because they're darkies.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Vaio

The last two jobs I have had have now been filled by workers from both Portugal and the Czech Republic at a lower wage Not their fault of course, but this is happening more and more in Cumbria. The major employers are recruiting from employment agencies who are supplying foreign workers and receiving grants from the EU as they are apparently giving training to said workers.

Naturally this won't be happening in your area so I expect you to dismiss this totally.

~Vaio~

In Norway they use polish and baltic workers at construction sites etc for 2£ an hour at the worst. Even in state-owned companies. This is openly supported by the NHO (the main Employers Association).

The EU also helps companies move from "high-cost countries" (ie Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, France, GB, Belgium) towards "low-cost countries" (ie Poland, the Baltic countries, Slovakia, Hungary etc). So with your own tax money your subidizing Corporate Europe's quest for higher profit.

The high GDP growth of United Kingdom the last years is driven by low wages and imported labour (like those chinese people who got killed when they picked shells at the coast) of some form.

[Weeks]

I have a friend, and know of quite a few others, who works here and sends money home. So essentially money is going out of this country.

But the thing is, they live here. And the money they need to spend to live here, which means putting money back into the economy, makes up for any money going home to mum and dad which usually isn't that much- as it doesn't have to be that much as mum and dad's country is normally very poor.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Phang

no, it doesn't, this is complete bollocks. It's only a problem when the money is being taken out of the country - in the case of temp workers with work permits (bosnian builders, for example) - this IS a problem but overlooked as it is a neccessary service. In the case of people who want to become a useful part of the community, and earn and spend money in britain, it IS a problem for many, because they're darkies.

It's only a problem for me because myself and some of my friends are being replaced by cheaper foreign labour, and has nothing to do with their colour. Sorry if that disappoints you.

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

In Norway they use polish and baltic workers at construction sites etc for 2£ an hour at the worst. Even in state-owned companies. This is openly supported by the NHO (the main Employers Association).

The EU also helps companies move from "high-cost countries" (ie Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, France, GB, Belgium) towards "low-cost countries" (ie Poland, the Baltic countries, Slovakia, Hungary etc). So with your own tax money your subidizing Corporate Europe's quest for higher profit.

The high GDP growth of United Kingdom the last years is driven by low wages and imported labour (like those chinese people who got killed when they picked shells at the coast) of some form.

So which do you consider better ? Lower GDP and higher local employees or higher GDP and more migrant workers ?

The chinese workers were apparently working for people traffickers and not for any legitimate companies. Oddly enough, they were in the country illegally.

~Vaio~

[Weeks]

By replaced do you mean you're being sacked in order for them to employe foreigner labourers, or that you can't get a job as all the jobs have been taken by foreign labourers?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Vaio

The last two jobs I have had have now been filled by workers from both Portugal and the Czech Republic at a lower wage

That's nothing to do with our immegration policy, that's to do with our membership of the European Union. You don't need work permits to work in another EU country. The immegration that's being discussed by the tories is that from outside the EU.

[LHC]

Originally Posted by Vaio

It's only a problem for me because myself and some of my friends are being replaced by cheaper foreign labour, and has nothing to do with their colour. Sorry if that disappoints you.

~Vaio~

tough shit

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Weeks

By replaced do you mean you're being sacked in order for them to employe foreigner labourers, or that you can't get a job as all the jobs have been taken by foreign labourers?

That's the clever bit, not sacked, just didn't have my contract renewed. Jobs are now a bit tricky as all the major employers are taking foreign nationals.

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by LHC

tough shit

When the same happens in your area, i'll refrain from repeating that.

~Vaio~

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Vaio

When the same happens in your area, i'll refrain from repeating that.

Maybe when (if) he gets laid off, he won't make irrelevent whines about it.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Maybe when (if) he gets laid off, he won't make irrelevent whines about it.

I was disappointed he didn't call me a racist .

~Vaio~

[JonnyBGood]

Maybe you should work for a lower wage?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Vaio

I was disappointed he didn't call me a racist

Well, you were being prejudiced against them because of their nationality. That makes you a racist by any sensible definition.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Well, you were being prejudiced against them because of their nationality. That makes you a racist by any sensible definition.

If you consider my preference to having a job than not having a job and being pissed off about foreign labour having said job then I suppose I must be.....

~Vaio~

[SYMM]

It costs approximately £250,000 to train a doctor
It has been shown (in the private sector) that re-qualifying a foreign national to NHS standards can typically be done for around £5000
There are around 90,000 vacancies in the health services in this country, yet is ridiculously difficult for foreign nationals to get jobs in the NHS under current immigration laws.

A Home Office report has shown that people from outside the UK, including asylum seekers, contribute 10% more to the economy in taxes and national insurance than they consume in benefits and public services.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Vaio

So which do you consider better ? Lower GDP and higher local employees or higher GDP and more migrant workers ?

The chinese workers were apparently working for people traffickers and not for any legitimate companies. Oddly enough, they were in the country illegally.

~Vaio~

Its a loose-loose situation anyway. If a company doesnt move it wont survive the competition from a company who moves to Slovakia. Looking at my cellphone, a Siemens, its made in Hungary. Its not becouse the productivity is better in Hungary than in Germany. Its becouse taxes, wages (including benefits/pensions/tax on labour) are lower. Nokia has moved production to China.
Once one company in a sector moves, the others have to do the same or get their production done cheaply in another way, like getting more robots (witch also will cut jobs).

So if you accept that capital should be able to move over borders without regulation, this is what you get. Its as simple as that.

Yes, they were illegally in the UK. However, their labour still added to GDP, becouse their produce something (shells) who is sold and benefited from.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Vaio

If you consider my preference to having a job than not having a job and being pissed off about foreign labour having said job then I suppose I must be.....

~Vaio~

if it was a local person for local people with the job, would you be as pissed off?

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Maybe you should work for a lower wage?

Would you ?

Unfortunatly the chance isn't offered. The migrant workers are shipped in en masse.

~Vaio~

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by SYMM

There are around 90,000 vacancies in the health services in this country, yet is ridiculously difficult for foreign nationals to get jobs in the NHS under current immigration laws.

you have to be kidding right?? my local hospital now has more foreign doctors than english ones, i'm not making this up or exaggerating, i know a couple of people who work there, it has foreign nurses, foreign physios etc, and i have been informed that this is NHS policy now

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Would you ?

Unfortunatly the chance isn't offered. The migrant workers are shipped in en masse.

~Vaio~

this is what you should have a union for

[Phang]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

you have to be kidding right?? my local hospital now has more foreign doctors than english ones, i'm not making this up or exaggerating, i know a couple of people who work there, it has foreign nurses, foreign physios etc, and i have been informed that this is NHS policy now

are you actually genuinely complaining because the NHS deals with being short-staffed by hiring doctors???

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

this is what you should have a union for

Your correct. Scarely enough.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Phang

if it was a local person for local people with the job, would you be as pissed off?

I would be disappointed yes, but I fail to see how this is relevant.

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

this is what you should have a union for

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

At my last job, the union didn't give a crap. The organisers have their nice jobs and they get taken out by the management every month.

~Vaio~

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Vaio

I would be disappointed yes, but I fail to see how this is relevant.

~Vaio~

because if you'd be more pissed off if a resident czech got it than a cumbrian, there is pretty much no argument that you are being racist?

[SYMM]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

you have to be kidding right?? my local hospital now has more foreign doctors than english ones, i'm not making this up or exaggerating, i know a couple of people who work there, it has foreign nurses, foreign physios etc, and i have been informed that this is NHS policy now

That's not really going against the point I was making. The NHS has around 30% of it's staff as foreign workers now, and there are still shortages because of how difficult it is for asylum seekers to get work, since 2002 asylum seekers can't work at all. While they're waiting for an application to be processed, would it not make sense to allow them to contribute something to the country rather than have them doing nothing?

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Phang

because if you'd be more pissed off if a resident czech got it than a cumbrian, there is pretty much no argument that you are being racist?

They are only resident once the employment agency has shipped them over here, stuck 12 of them in a 3 bedroom house and got them work. Until then they are foreign nationals.

~Vaio~

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Would you ?

Unfortunatly the chance isn't offered. The migrant workers are shipped in en masse.

~Vaio~

I don't work full stop but yeah I would. It is a pity that the chance isn't offered. If your union is really that poor then I would advise setting up a new one. Frankly I just find the entire of idea of being entitled to something off other people purely because you were born in a specific location absolute crap. Maybe we can blame that on my privileged upbringing though!

[G.K Zhukov]

If you want to work for 2£ a hour, I will employ you JBG. Book a flight to Bergen, Norway. I wont pay the flight and I wont sort you out a place to live. However, I promise 12 hours of work per day, if you want (and witch you will need with that pay anyways, hahaha).

So when your coming, or have you been writing bullshi*?

[JonnyBGood]

I don't work full stop dude. My point is that if someone (mentally competent and such) wants to work for that I think they should be free to.



Plus I'd rather burn my face off with a blowtorch than work for you.



And I hear norway is full of polar bears

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I don't work full stop dude. My point is that if someone (mentally competent and such) wants to work for that I think they should be free to.


Plus I'd rather burn my face off with a blowtorch than work for you.



And I hear norway is full of polar bears

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I don't work full stop but yeah I would.

Erhm.
Anyways, you say you wouldnt do it, but its okey for others to do so. Gee, thanks, thats what the rich call solidarity eh?

Dont worry, Im sure your no use anyways, so I would sell you as meat to the polar beers. I guess I could get a a few quids for that, and a few K's for selling the video online.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I don't work full stop dude. My point is that if someone (mentally competent and such) wants to work for that I think they should be free to.



Plus I'd rather burn my face off with a blowtorch than work for you.



And I hear norway is full of polar bears

And wolves, don't forget the wolves.

~Vaio~

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Erhm.
Anyways, you say you wouldnt do it, but its okey for others to do so. Gee, thanks, thats what the rich call solidarity eh?

Dont worry, Im sure your no use anyways, so I would sell you as meat to the polar beers. I guess I could get a a few quids for that, and a few K's for selling the video online.

Do you need a UK sales agent for that ?

~Vaio~

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Erhm.
Anyways, you say you wouldnt do it, but its okey for others to do so. Gee, thanks, thats what the rich call solidarity eh?

Dont worry, Im sure your no use anyways, so I would sell you as meat to the polar beers. I guess I could get a a few quids for that, and a few K's for selling the video online.

Hay man I hear this craaaaaazzzzzzzzeeeeeeey rumour that different people do different jobs. Confirm/deny please?

[Super]

I live in Dorset, which has either the highest or second highest proportion (98%) of white English nationals in the country, so this issue doesn't really hit home

[SYMM]

There's this little thing called 'empathy'...

[JonnyBGood]

Do you think that says something about dorset sub?

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Do you think that says something about dorset sub?

It tells me the takeaways are crap for a start.

~Vaio~