Do you have a gay in the office?

[roadrunner_0]

dunno, i think that a couple of people around here have been blatantly homophobic, but thet have got negative rep over it, there have been a fair few posts pointing out the stupidity of it all

[Weeks]

I didn't think he was being homophobic.
He just seemed not to undestand what was going on at work.
Now questioning something means the same as hating something?

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

I didn't think he was being homophobic.
He just seemed not to undestand what was going on at work.
Now questioning something means the same as hating something?

he wasn't 'questioning'

if someone asks "why are black people less intelligent than white people?" they are not 'questioning'

neither was he.

[Weeks]

Even if he does hate the guy, he hates him due to the fact he's hijacking the conversation to talk about the same thing all the time, not because of his sexuality. That is not homophobia.

CrashTester seems to be impling that if the guy was homosexual and didn't always talk about his homosexuality there would be no problem.

I'm none too fond people who blather on about who they nobbed the other night all the time. In the same way I'm none to fond of people who blather on about the sexuality all the time.

I understand why people do it; It just bores me.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Even if he does hate the guy, he hates him due to the fact he's hijacking the conversation to talk about the same thing all the time, not because of his sexuality. That is not homophobia.

he hates him because he's there.
interrupting his talking about girls.

interrupting as Vaio put it (and i support vaio on this) him forcing his hetrosexuality in everyone's face.

this is homophobia.

[Weeks]

Ok.

Group of homosexuals talk about men every lunch time.
All of a sudden a hetrosexual comes and starts changing the conversation to his hetrosexuality. The homosexual's would much prefer talking about men, and feel uncomfotable listening to hetrosexuals sexual likes and dislikes. They start to hate the hetrosexual because he's hijacked the conversation.

Does this make the homosexuals hetrophobic?

Surely they just hate the fact their conversation's been hijacked?

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Ok.

Group of homosexuals talk about men every lunch time.
All of a sudden a hetrosexual comes and starts changing the conversation to his hetrosexuality. The homosexual's would much prefer talking about men, and feel uncomfotable listening to hetrosexuals sexual likes and dislikes. They start to hate the hetrosexual because he's hijacked the conversation.

Does this make the homosexuals hetrophobic?

Surely they just hate the fact their conversation's been hijacked?

a) yes it would
b) he didn't mean that. (he said there were girls there so in truth what he resented was not men talking about sex but a man talking about a form of sex he didn't like)

hence homophobia.

see?

[Weeks]

I see homophobia as hating the whole of someone because of their sexuality.
And, I see hating what someone talks about and hating the person as different things.

I hate it when my friend talks about his wierd sexual fantasies. If he went on talking about them everytime I saw him I probably would get really bored and start to dislike talking to him. It would not mean I hate him.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

I see homophobia as hating the whole of someone because of their sexuality.
And, I see hating what someone talks about and hating the person as different things.

I hate it when my friend talks about his wierd sexual fantasies. If he went on talking about them everytime I saw him I probably would get really bored and start to dislike talking to him. It would not mean I hate him.

i love my black friend but i can't stand the colour of his skin

[SilverSmoke]

Do not confuse fear with hate, young jedi.

[Weeks]

A person is more than just their sexuality.
More than just skin colour (in your example).
And more than just sexual fantasies (in my example).

Disliking one aspect of someone does is not to dislike the person. I've hated certain opinions of my friends, it doesn't mean I hate them.

If that one aspect eclipses all the other aspects (in the mind of the other person, or in the actions of the person) then it would be hatred.

But otherwise i'd say there was no overall hatred for the person.

[Weeks]

Originally Posted by SilverSmoke

Do not confuse fear with hate, young jedi.

They'd be the same thing in this context.
Although the star wars quote was appreciated.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

A person is more than just their sexuality.
More than just skin colour (in your example).
And more than just sexual fantasies (in my example).

Disliking one aspect of someone does is not to dislike the person. I've hated certain opinions of my friends, it doesn't mean I hate them.

If that one aspect eclipses all the other aspects (in the mind of the other person, or in the actions of the person) then it would be hatred.

But otherwise i'd say there was no overall hatred for the person.

did he say "there's this guy X who although he is gay keeps talking unnecessarilly about ****ing men"

You might notice that he did not.

you point is fine, your point is valid. you are not wrong in what you say
can i make it clearer?

it still doesn't cover up nor excuse his homophobia.

[Weeks]

Originally Posted by CrashTester

the subject always turns to gayness.

Its like they have to push it in peoples faces 24/7.

Go on, call me a homophobe, but dont you think its all a bit unnecessary?

That's the part of his post I concentrated on.
Maybe I was concentrating on the wrong parts.
The relentlessness of it all- not the subject matter itself.
And the fact talking about it 24/7 was unnecessary.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

That's the part of his post I concentrated on.
Maybe I was concentrating on the wrong parts.
The relentlessness of it all- not the subject matter itself.

you concentrated on the lie.

"why must we always discuss race?
the arabs have blown up embassies and knocked over the two towers
call me a racist
but all arabs are bad"

you must see why this is still wrong?

[Weeks]

Well if you're understanding what he's really saying and not what he's actually written then we may as well be arguing about fictional posts.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Well if you're understanding what he's really saying and not what he's actually written then we may as well be arguing about fictional posts.

if you want to live in a world where putting the words 'i mean no offence' after an offensive comment mean there is no offense then knock yourself out kid.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

dunno, i think that a couple of people around here have been blatantly homophobic, but thet have got negative rep over it, there have been a fair few posts pointing out the stupidity of it all

ive been neg-repped like you wouldnt believe on this post that i made (as of right now, i can imagine Yahwe blurting a phrase thats resembling a "and you ****ing deserve that shit!!#%@#!)

as far as homophobia, i think most heterosexuals have the natural reaction of being homophobic but should carefully be aware that it has limits to a point where it should not hold them back from accepting the fact that they have to function with them to achieve a common goal, just like all the other differences that we have with the rest of humanity

we all know that guys talk about girls and vice versa, and homosexuals ofcourse will always talk about their sexual preferences and thats OK, but if it comes to a point where it is publicly expressed in a workplace with the full disregard that someone else might get offended, then becomes a threatening atmosphere and will affect anybody's work performance - and shouldnt be tolerated - and worrying about this is not homophobia - it is plainly an issue of respect around people that you work with, thats why we imposed written rules against sexual harrasment offenders

also, something that we are not used to seeing will most likely offend us. for example, i would gladly clean up a baby who shit in his diaper but i might find it outrageously disturbing from that of a 90-yr old male who just violently gone through a huge cranial bowel movement - deservingly because i am not used to seeing that - homosexuals need to understand that most heterosexuals will find it exasperating to see two males tongue-kissing each other because naturally, hetero's are not used to seeing that - and is not homophobia

with this being said, there are private homes, places and certain people where discussions of sexual preferences are acceptable - and your workplace is certainly not the place for talking about "that hot young babe who swallowed last night" or that "muscular handsome young man who jammed his love-muscle in my anus" - you dig?

[mist]

guy and his girlfriend in a pub kissing. ok or not ok?

guy and his boyfriend in a pub kissing. ok or not ok?

girl and her girlfriend in a pub kissing. ok or not ok?

[demiGOD]

anything in a pub is fair game, although a girl and her girlfriend kissing is more than ok, people pay cash to witness things like that

[mist]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

anything in a pub is fair game, although a girl and her girlfriend kissing is more than ok, people pay cash to witness things like that

by people, i take it you mean men who're thinking with their balls.

[Aryn]

i think my assistant manager is a lesbian. cause she keeps touching me and it's creepy. a couple weeks ago she was poking me and i screamed out 'you're giving me the no feeling!!' and she burst out laughing. and then i had to explain to another co-worker what the 'no' feeling means.
and the other day i was depressed so she came up and started rubbing my shoulders. after i've repeatedly told her not to touch me. and then yesterday she bought me a giftcard for safeway (cause yes i'm poor and can't afford groceries) and she looked like she was about to cry and was like 'just take it and don't worry about repayng me.. you need it' etc.
and re-reading this maybe she just sounds like a touchy feely nice person. BUT IT'S CREEPY :\

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by mist

by people, i take it you mean men who're thinking with their balls.

i mean yeah.. men who're thinking with their balls (ladies and gentlemen, the powerful jedi stick trick conducted by mist)

[Phang]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

we all know that guys talk about girls and vice versa, and homosexuals ofcourse will always talk about their sexual preferences and thats OK, but if it comes to a point where it is publicly expressed in a workplace with the full disregard that someone else might get offended, then becomes a threatening atmosphere and will affect anybody's work performance - and shouldnt be tolerated - and worrying about this is not homophobia


homosexuals need to understand that most heterosexuals will find it exasperating to see two males tongue-kissing each other because naturally, hetero's are not used to seeing that - and is not homophobia

No, you see, this IS homophobia.

[demiGOD]

no, not really

[Gayle29uk]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

no, not really

Yes, really. The unthinking assumption that because it makes you uncomfortable it must be wrong, rather than you thinking that maybe your being uncomfortable about it is wrong, is just as bad as 'queer bashing'.

It may not be physical violence but it's the same thought process that drives the neanderthals and their fists.

[JonnyBGood]

Ah the merits of any good argument. One person says yes, the other says no and NOBODY GIVES A ****ING REASON.


Spectacular.




PS Not in reference to gayle58uk

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Gayle29uk

Yes, really. The unthinking assumption that because it makes you uncomfortable it must be wrong, rather than you thinking that maybe your being uncomfortable about it is wrong, is just as bad as 'queer bashing'.

It may not be physical violence but it's the same thought process that drives the neanderthals and their fists.

oh ok, so its ok for two homosexuals in a workplace or an office to loudly talk about their sexual intercourse with their boyfriends the night before, but a female can charge you with sexual harassment if you blatantly talk about, with your office friend, how 'jennifer' sucked some good dick last night? dont you think its very uncomfortable for a female in the office who keeps asking you how big your dick is?? - its not even about homosexuality, its about being able to work in peace without the air of sexual harassment floating around..

"oh, we need to treat them in a special way with more leniency for people might think we're homophobic..." - ooh, ooh, heres another one, "oh yea, we need to give him a 'not guilty' because he's black and people might think we're racist if we give him a 'guilty'"

get the **** outta here..

[Phang]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

oh ok, so its ok for two homosexuals in a workplace or an office to loudly talk about their sexual intercourse with their boyfriends the night before, but a female can charge you with sexual harassment if you blatantly talk about, with your office friend, how 'jennifer' sucked some good dick last night? dont you think its very uncomfortable for a female in the office who keeps asking you how big your dick is?? - its not even about homosexuality, its about being able to work in peace without the air of sexual harassment floating around..

the egalitarian bit wasn't the bit we objected to. it was the 'homosexuals shouldnt kiss in public because i'm a massive wanker' part, and the bit where homosexuals shouldnt talk about their relationships at work at all let alone the more ...pictographic elements.

[Nodrog]

Homophobia is the new racism. Let's keep on calling everyone we meet a homophobe so that word can become meaningless too!

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Homophobia is the new racism. Let's keep on calling everyone we meet a homophobe so that word can become meaningless too!

i think it was reasonable to call whoever came up with the idea of seperate water fountains a racist mang

[Gayle29uk]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

oh ok, so its ok for two homosexuals in a workplace or an office to loudly talk about their sexual intercourse with their boyfriends the night before

]
No, I don't. Nor, however, do I think it appropriate office behaviour for a guy to talk publicly about the girl he nailed last night.

"oh, we need to treat them in a special way with more leniency for people might think we're homophobic..." - ooh, ooh, heres another one, "oh yea, we need to give him a 'not guilty' because he's black and people might think we're racist if we give him a 'guilty'"

No, see above. Your argument is also flawed though as it assumes something not in evidence (racism/positive discrimination) whereas your homophobia has been pretty firmly established.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Phang

the egalitarian bit wasn't the bit we objected to. it was the 'homosexuals shouldnt kiss in public because i'm a massive wanker' part, and the bit where homosexuals shouldnt talk about their relationships at work at all let alone the more ...pictographic elements.

i didnt say they shouldnt kiss in public, all im saying is, hetero's most likely will find it disturbing to see 2 men kissing - just like nuns, or kids, or amish people, etc might find it disturbing to witness a girl and a boy kissing in public for the simple fact that each party on both examples are not used to seeing such things ------- it is not any kind of phobia in its most basic definition of the word!!

about anybody at work - they SHOULD NOT be talking about their sexual life at all - am i the only one who understands this!?

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Phang

i think it was reasonable to call whoever came up with the idea of seperate water fountains a racist mang

Yes, and back then the term actually meant something. Now it doesnt. The term 'homophobe' currently still has meaning, but this situation will cease if people continue to call people 'homophobic' for no reason other than to win gay points or whatever.

When I hear someone being called 'racist' these days, my initial reaction is to roll my eyes because I know that 99% of the time it is going to be bullshit.

[Embroglio]

there's me and nicola where i work, noone gives me any hassle over it but loads of people do her

[Yahwe]

demiGOD look over there its a newly married interracial gay couple burning your country's flag!!!

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yes, and back then the term meant something. Now it doesnt. The term 'homophobe' currently still means something, but this situation will cease if people continue to call people 'homophobic' for no reason other than to win gay points or whatever.

my point was more that just because a term os overused doesn't mean it can't ever be valid. in this case I'd say it is valid. in his last example (****ed if i'm going to use quote tags) he says that it's just as valid for straight people to be disturbed by gay people kissing as it is for nuns to be disturbed by straights kissing. the point is that in the latter case there is an intrinsic opposition to the act, but to assume that straight people should naturally disapprove of fags is plainly homophobia.

[demiGOD]

and let me state this yahwe, i do not have any issues with gay marriage

[demiGOD]

ok, phang, since u said these are 2 different things, so what kind of phobia is it when a nun complains at a young girl-boy couple tongue-kissing in public, eh?

[Phang]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

ok, phang, since u said these are 2 different things, so what kind of phobia is it when a nun complains at a young girl-boy couple tongue-kissing in public, eh?

bizarre and religiously motivated. but it isn't a phobia anyway, it's a splendid act of brainwashing, and moreover i tend to suspect it's rather rare

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Phang

my point was more that just because a term os overused doesn't mean it can't ever be valid. in this case I'd say it is valid. in his last example (****ed if i'm going to use quote tags) he says that it's just as valid for straight people to be disturbed by gay people kissing as it is for nuns to be disturbed by straights kissing. the point is that in the latter case there is an intrinsic opposition to the act, but to assume that straight people should naturally disapprove of fags is plainly homophobia.

He didn't say people 'naturally disapprove of fags'. He did say that heterosexuals had a 'natural reaction' against fags, but he went on to clarify this is because people are often shocked or disturbed by things they are not used to encountering, such as men kissing. This is not homophobic. When men kiss in public they are going to stand out, since this is not something most people encounter on a regular basis.

[demiGOD]

*whew* thanks nodrog... jesus ****ing christ, un****ingbelievable some people are!

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

He didn't say people 'naturally disapprove of fags'. He did say that heterosexuals had a 'natural reaction' against fags, but he went on to clarify this is because people are often shocked or disturbed by things they are not used to encountering, such as men kissing. This is not homophobic. When men kiss in public they are going to stand out, since this is not something most people encounter on a regular basis.

my point is rather more that he doesn't see any problem with this state of affairs. as an observation it's reasonably accurate, but as a personal standpoint it's not really so great.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Phang

my point is rather more that he doesn't see any problem with this state of affairs. as an observation it's reasonably accurate, but as a personal standpoint it's not really so great.

hmmm, does that have to do with my red blobs

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yes, and back then the term actually meant something. Now it doesnt. The term 'homophobe' currently still has meaning, but this situation will cease if people continue to call people 'homophobic' for no reason other than to win gay points or whatever.

When I hear someone being called 'racist' these days, my initial reaction is to roll my eyes because I know that 99% of the time it is going to be bullshit.

i think the fact that the use of the word racist over the last 50 years has managed to seriously effect this form of discrimination is well worth the price if it is merely you rolling your eyes.

in the onehand, ending a serious fight with growing success against a form of biggotry and hate.
in the other gordon sneering and looking superior.

i know i found the choice a tough one.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Phang

No, you see, this IS homophobia.

Not at all.

Two girls kissing. The majority of blokes will nudge each other and grin, and stare.

A girl and a guy kissing. Most people will roll their eyes, pretend to ignore them (but watch them really, out of curiosity more than anything), and say things like "Get a room".

Two guys kissing. It happens very rarely, as most homosexuals seem to have relationships on a level higher than just physical, and are not that intimate, unless in an accepted area, such as a gay club. If they do kiss in public though, then arrogant opinionated males might get aggressive or defensive, but most for the most part will just ignore but quietly think to themselves "I'd rather not be seeing this". Because it's true. I don't want to see two guys snogging. I don't have a problem with it, but yes, I might mention to my friend that I don't appreciate it. That isn't homophobia dude, it's just not wanting to see it.

The term homophobia is thrown around so loosely now. I want to see two guys kissing as much as I want to see an old women strip in front of me. I guess that makes me as much of an agist, as a homophobe, so shoot me down!

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Not at all.

The term homophobia is thrown around so loosely now. I want to see two guys kissing as much as I want to see an old women strip in front of me. I guess that makes me as much of an agist, as a homophobe, so shoot me down!

a) no its not.
b) get used to it. quick.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

a) no its not.
b) get used to it. quick.

a) Homophobia is used too loosely now. It's used simply as a term for "hating on dem gaylords". If I say "oh shit man, that's gay", as a "that's really rubbish" - which I do occasionally - then am I a homophobe? No - I actually love gay people, for the most part they're a lot more amusing and interesting than straight people. But I still use the word "gay" for a derogatory adjective.

b) Get used to what, sorry? Being called a homophobe? Sure. I'll lower my trousers for the homophobe-branding-stick if you like! Shit, that sounds gay, I'd better not say that eh! ^_^

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

a) Homophobia is used too loosely now. It's used simply as a term for "hating on dem gaylords". If I say "oh shit man, that's gay", as a "that's really rubbish" - which I do occasionally - then am I a homophobe? No - I actually love gay people, for the most part they're a lot more amusing and interesting than straight people. But I still use the word "gay" for a derogatory adjective.

b) Get used to what, sorry? Being called a homophobe? Sure. I'll lower my trousers for the homophobe-branding-stick if you like! Shit, that sounds gay, I'd better not say that eh! ^_^

a) don't

b) learn to be funny.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

a) don't

b) learn to be funny.

a) Why? It's acceptable where I'm from, and amongst my friends. As long as I keep it out of school etc, as it might be controversial, then I'm ok. I've used the word "gay" as "rubbish", or "cruddy" amongst some of my homosexual friends, and they don't care. I've asked them if they get offended, and they don't.

b) I could rise to you here, and go "hey yahwe i wasn't trying to be funny shut up k", but instead i'll just call you a gaylord and sit back contentedly.