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19 Oct 2003, 14:37
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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I found......
....... this while searching for sane opinions in the American right.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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19 Oct 2003, 14:40
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#2
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: I found......
'This concept is hardly "novel". From Machiavelli to Castro, and from Marx to Stalin, different forms of socialism have "evolved" from a Utopian theory into a manifestation of evil - killing millions of innocent people along the way.'
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19 Oct 2003, 14:57
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#3
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
Interesting that they mention Machiavelli in the same sentence as Castro, Marx and Stalin.
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:04
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#4
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: I found......
Wow, this is the most amazing thing I have ever read. I am truly stunned.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:06
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#5
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: I found......
Using old socialist terms like "political cooperation" and dictatorial language like "define(s) and manage(s)",
I FELL OFF MY ****ING CHAIR DAMNIT
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19 Oct 2003, 16:08
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#6
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: I found......
it gets worse;
This body [The ICC] has a general mandate to prosecute such vague "crimes" as human rights abuses and war crimes.
TERRORIST TRIBUNALS ANYONE! ILLEGALT DETENTION ON THE CHARGE OF 'BEING AN ENEMY'?
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19 Oct 2003, 16:10
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#7
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: I found......
will stop making new posts soon, but
One pristine example of this trampling of liberty is the proposed elimination of capital punishment
JESUS H TAPDANCING CHRIST
oh, and the last 3 paragraphs:
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
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19 Oct 2003, 16:12
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#8
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: I found......
Quote:
The US Constitution stands as the foundation of the oldest and strongest democratic institution in the history of the world.
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Irony of ironies with an ironic touch of ironed irony.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:16
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#9
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
Surely the Ancient Greeks had the oldest "democracy" in the world. Of course, only "citizens" could vote in the senate, and the requirments for citizenship were very strict...
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:19
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#10
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
The Ancient Greeks (Athenians, mainly) did indeed have the oldest democracy in the world.
The oldest currently surviving one is probably the UK Parliament.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:19
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#11
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga
Surely the Ancient Greeks had the oldest "democracy" in the world. Of course, only "citizens" could vote in the senate, and the requirments for citizenship were very strict...
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Which would be different from any other democracy 100 years ago how?
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19 Oct 2003, 16:21
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#12
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
Not much, but many would argue that the Ancient Greeks really had a republic and not a "true" democracy. Of course, no one really lives in a "true" democracy anyway.
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:23
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#13
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
The Ancient Athenians had much more of a true democracy then anyone now, as all decisions were made in the Assembly by popular vote.
Of course it was a complete disaster, but we'll ignore that.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:30
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#14
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
Yes but about 80% of the polulation had no vote.
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:30
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#15
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga
Yes but about 80% of the polulation had no vote.
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That's because the first 50% were female and the rest were slaves.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:33
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#16
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
Yup. Hardly a "popular vote" like we mean today.
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:34
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#17
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
All democracies only let citizens vote.
They just had a narrower definition of "citizen"...
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:35
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#18
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I'm not a poet
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 603
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Re: I found......
One which would be laughed at if any country tried it today.
__________________
'There's no place like 127.0.0.1...there's no place like 127.0.0.1'
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19 Oct 2003, 16:36
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#19
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
So?
No countries let women vote until about 100 years ago...
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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19 Oct 2003, 16:38
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#20
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: I found......
well, slaves obviously wouldn't get to vote, and women voting is new in the American democratic sense so meh
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19 Oct 2003, 23:49
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#21
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: I found......
I want one of those cuddly Northern Americans to defend this.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:23
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: I found......
oh, the brillance. i wonder if there is more where that came from?
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:25
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#23
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
The oldest currently surviving one is probably the UK Parliament.
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The Swiss system is older I believe.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 00:26
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,967
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Re: I found......
The US doesn't have a democracy, it has a Repersentive Goverment.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:28
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle29uk
The Swiss system is older I believe.
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and the most democratic currently in power.
__________________
im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:30
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#26
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle29uk
The Swiss system is older I believe.
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And Iceland has the oldest heh.
Although I think the Isle of Man has like the longest sitting parliament in history or something like that.
PS I searched for oldest democracy in the world on google and most of the results said that the US was :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:40
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#27
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And Iceland has the oldest heh.
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Not really, being effectively under Danish rule and all that.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 00:43
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#28
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And Iceland has the oldest heh.
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Iceland's hasn't been continuous.
The Isle of Man's has been, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
PS I searched for oldest democracy in the world on google and most of the results said that the US was ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
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If you search for "oldest commisioned warship" all the results say it's the USS Constitution.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:47
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#29
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
If you search for "oldest commisioned warship" all the results say it's the USS Constitution.
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We had that argument a while ago too. The modern USA has not been round long enough to compete with Europe on history, that's why they go for size
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 00:48
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#30
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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Re: I found......
****ing yanks.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:51
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#31
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IRC Lackey
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere in the dark and nasty regions...
Posts: 1,471
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
PS I searched for oldest democracy in the world on google and most of the results said that the US was ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
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It's greece isn't it?
In athens, where they used to hold meetings to decide what to do.
Though in true old style, women weren't allowed to attend and vote. In fact, one of those zany greek thinkers wrote a play about what the world would be like if women got the vote ( everything goes wrong and they get invaded etc...)
__________________
-Mushroom.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
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20 Oct 2003, 00:51
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#32
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
The Ancient Greeks (Athenians, mainly) did indeed have the oldest democracy in the world.
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democracy.
`rule by the people`.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:54
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#33
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by inf
democracy.
`rule by the people`.
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I cannot begin to express the ignorance displayed by this statement.
(Here's a hint: who do you think invented the word "democracy"?)
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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20 Oct 2003, 00:55
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#34
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by inf
democracy.
`rule by the people`.
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Democracy: Bread and Circuses.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 00:59
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle29uk
Democracy: Bread and Circuses.
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You uneducated ****.
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20 Oct 2003, 01:00
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#36
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
(Here's a hint: who do you think invented the word "democracy"?)
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My point exactly.
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20 Oct 2003, 01:01
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#37
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by inf
You uneducated ****.
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???
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 01:03
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#38
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle29uk
Not really, being effectively under Danish rule and all that.
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Seeing as Switzerland was conquered by the french in 1789 and was under their rule for twenty odd years, they aren't the oldest democracy as that was only established in 1815 if we're going to get all ****ing pedantic.
Not to mention the fact that the Swiss confederation expanded back then and isn't the same country that it is today (geographically speaking) by a long shot.
Or that many of the swiss cantons were ruled by the local aristocracies, notably the Bern canton until the french invasion, the bale cantons which were ruled so oppressively that revolt broke out and the original canton was forced to split. What's funny about Switzerland is that some of the current cantons were invaded and ruled by decree by the other ones. That and the fact it took Napoleon to unite most of the final cantons in his Act of Mediation.
Edit: why the **** did this thread close?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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20 Oct 2003, 01:20
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#39
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
<snip>
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I bow before your greater googling
Quote:
Edit: why the **** did this thread close?
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No idea, though I have (I think) discovered why the US thinks it has the world's oldest democracy. They have the world's oldest written constitution and many people seem to mistakenly believe that a constitution (written or otherwise) is an essential part of a democracy.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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20 Oct 2003, 01:25
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#40
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: I found......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle29uk
I bow before your greater googling
No idea, though I have (I think) discovered why the US thinks it has the world's oldest democracy. They have the world's oldest written constitution and many people seem to mistakenly believe that a constitution (written or otherwise) is an essential part of a democracy.
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In fairness to me I did know that France had invaded Switzerland during the revolution. The rest of the stuff I freely admit I had no ****ing clue about heh.
The constitution thing is a bit silly as that would imply that changing your constitution means that you're no longer the same democracy you were beforehand meaning that the US is only as old as it's last amendement.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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20 Oct 2003, 01:29
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#41
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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Re: I found......
a written constitution restricts democracy.
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20 Oct 2003, 01:31
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,967
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Re: I found......
Yes indeed, ****ing Yanks.
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