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Unread 1 Jul 2015, 23:33   #51
Heartless
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Re: Second half of the round

I think the most amusing part is that this thread was created just as 2/3's of the round had been played. No wonder so many of you are shit at this game.
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 06:16   #52
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
I think the most amusing part is that this thread was created just as 2/3's of the round had been played. No wonder so many of you are shit at this game.
The discussion was ongoing in a different topic. That topic got deleted, so I made a new one.
I could have named it "the last 39% of the round" i suppose. Not sure how this in any way is relevant though. But thanks for your input...
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 16:36   #53
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Re: Second half of the round

Seems like Asc got ahead of themself, risking incs surely teached then a lesson of PA so far.
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 16:59   #54
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Re: Second half of the round

A few weeks ago you were complaining that there was no way that asc would attack ult because we were, in your opinion, simply a support tag. Now that we have proved you wrong, and joined your side are you pleased?
Oh no, you crow over our losses, despite the fact that those losses are buying the others the opportunity to roid ult down to the ground and causing them to crash 2,5 mil value.
There really is no pleasing some people.
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Last edited by [B5]Londo; 2 Jul 2015 at 23:27.
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 17:36   #55
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
A few weeks ago you were complaining that there was no way that asc would attack ult because we were, in your opinion, simply an asc support tag. Now that we have proved you wrong, and joined your side are you pleased?
Oh no, you crow over our losses, despite the fact that those losses are buying the others the opportunity to roid ult down to the ground and causing them to crash 2,5 mil value.
There really is no pleasing some people.
Im pleased our incs from asc has stopped.
Im just suprised Asc would jump off the fence
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 17:41   #56
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Seems like Asc got ahead of themself, risking incs surely teached then a lesson of PA so far.
So maybe you should go "Seems I got ahead of myself, and seeing Asc risking incs surely teached me a lesson of PA so far".
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 18:07   #57
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Re: Second half of the round

A small correction: Butcher isn't on anyone's side. I'm not even convinced he's playing the same game.
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Unread 2 Jul 2015, 21:05   #58
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Re: Second half of the round

He was dropped a few times as baby
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 00:33   #59
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Confraria View Post
So maybe you should go "Seems I got ahead of myself, and seeing Asc risking incs surely teached me a lesson of PA so far".
I do understand why they joined the block, they didnt want to get left alone, and greatly underestimated the power of ND/Ultores
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 05:29   #60
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Re: Second half of the round

well i rather enjoyed 1/3 of the player base taking down ultores. it really shows the strength of ultores and clearly they deserve to win the round.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 05:52   #61
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Re: Second half of the round

I have missed seeing the "we don't care about the round" ascendancy attitude but the forum soon gets an influx of their members chipping in once the roiding starts. Gj sticking to stereotype!

Big political mistake made by mz, lok and whoever the hell tries thier hand in asc politics... No need to dress it up as a "we can't do anything right can we" here though, just take the bash you deserve and go ftw again.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 08:40   #62
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
I have missed seeing the "we don't care about the round" ascendancy attitude but the forum soon gets an influx of their members chipping in once the roiding starts. Gj sticking to stereotype!
There are as many posts by RainbowS members on the second page as there are posts by Ascendancy members: 4 each, this post included. Only one of us has significantly commented on the incs so far, and he didn't pull the care card. You are making things up.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 08:54   #63
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Re: Second half of the round

Thanks for caring enough to count!
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 10:15   #64
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
I have missed seeing the "we don't care about the round" ascendancy attitude but the forum soon gets an influx of their members chipping in once the roiding starts. Gj sticking to stereotype!

Big political mistake made by mz, lok and whoever the hell tries thier hand in asc politics... No need to dress it up as a "we can't do anything right can we" here though, just take the bash you deserve and go ftw again.
we're in agreement there, but considering how hard they tried to play the alliances off against each other its a bit hard to "not care about the round."

That and they didnt care about the round so much that they waited until Ult had been effectively defeated before they bravely joined the fight against them...
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 11:29   #65
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Adapt deleted his own thread. Not me.
I did yes.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 13:32   #66
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Morden View Post
we're in agreement there, but considering how hard they tried to play the alliances off against each other its a bit hard to "not care about the round."

That and they didnt care about the round so much that they waited until Ult had been effectively defeated before they bravely joined the fight against them...
If they had just stayed out of it instead of trying to heroicly deliver the last blow to ult they might have actually won the round without having to fight for it... Now I'm not so sure
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 14:01   #67
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
well i rather enjoyed 1/3 of the player base taking down ultores. it really shows the strength of ultores and clearly they deserve to win the round.
1/3 of the player-base? It's mainly been BF/CT as Asc has been grounded.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 14:17   #68
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
1/3 of the player-base? It's mainly been BF/CT as Asc has been grounded.
i doubt Blue_Esper was talking about last night, instead he was probably talking about this round in general.

Total planets: 719

BF: 56
Asc: 53
CT: 60
Bows: 55
----------
Combined: 224 (31% or about 1/3 of the playerbase)
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 14:33   #69
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
i doubt Blue_Esper was talking about last night, instead he was probably talking about this round in general.

Total planets: 719

BF: 56
Asc: 53
CT: 60
Bows: 55
----------
Combined: 224 (31% or about 1/3 of the playerbase)
BowS has been fighting other wars meanwhile though.
But Ult has prolly had twice as much incs as everyone else.
My guess would be

1. Ult
2. BF
3. Asc
4. CT
5. BowS
28. Faceless
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 14:45   #70
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
i doubt Blue_Esper was talking about last night, instead he was probably talking about this round in general.

Total planets: 719

BF: 56
Asc: 53
CT: 60
Bows: 55
----------
Combined: 224 (31% or about 1/3 of the playerbase)
My point is that since Asc "joined" against Ultores, they haven't really attacked them yet because Ultores went straight into offense mode and forced Asc to ground.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 15:27   #71
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
i doubt Blue_Esper was talking about last night, instead he was probably talking about this round in general.

Total planets: 719

BF: 56
Asc: 53
CT: 60
Bows: 55
----------
Combined: 224 (31% or about 1/3 of the playerbase)
It is not anything like as unfair as you paint it since asc is being hit by
Ult: 60
Rogues: 50
Penguins: 39
NewDawn: 41
HR: 37
Norse: 22
ODDR: 17
Thats 266.
Now you will correctly retort that this is not a 'block', indeed you could say that formally only Rogues and Ult are a 'side' however nor can the rest be dismissed as random incs since p3n and ND dropped NAPs to hit us, and the other 3 have hit us three days in succession.
A fully justified reprisal for all our shameless noob bashing to be sure, but it still has an effect on us losing roids regardless of the motivation. Therefore if you include Asc, who are not hitting ult in an organised way, as part of the block against ult, you have to conceed, that those who are hitting us repeatedly but not formally aligned have to be given equal billing!
And thus its all square and entirely fair.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 15:37   #72
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
But Ult has prolly had twice as much incs as everyone else.
My guess would be
1. Ult
2. BF
3. Asc
4. CT
5. BowS
28. Faceless
I would be surprised if three days of 200+ incs on asc is enough to compensate for weeks of practically nothing, (unless CT and BowS were fighting but not actually being hit). Of course this will change if Asc continues to take the hits it is atm, but the number being mustered is thanks mostly to a heterogeneous collection of the smaller alliances who will likely lose interest.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 15:57   #73
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Re: Second half of the round

Confirmed Rogues will not lose interest after throwing us under the bus earlier in the round - unless someone else chooses to hit us now
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 15:59   #74
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I would be surprised if three days of 200+ incs on asc is enough to compensate for weeks of practically nothing, (unless CT and BowS were fighting but not actually being hit). Of course this will change if Asc continues to take the hits it is atm, but the number being mustered is thanks mostly to a heterogeneous collection of the smaller alliances who will likely lose interest.
BowS had more incs than CT early on, but this changed when we were battered down by the various blocks and had no roids left.
Hitting Ult for big parts of the round meant we couldnt regain roids due to oir strat/race split, so incs has naturaly stalled.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:00   #75
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
My point is that since Asc "joined" against Ultores, they haven't really attacked them yet because Ultores went straight into offense mode and forced Asc to ground.
Don't think it's Ult forcing Asc to ground or they are even grounding. To note, 7.7's defence was shameful last night. Highlights to me how little Asc deserve to be even in the frame for #1. It goes to show they have played both sides politically very well to be in the position they are at this stage of the round
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:10   #76
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Re: Second half of the round

It's also funny how BB thinks that each side of a block has had more incs than anyone outside of the main protagonists - I'm pretty sure CT have been barely hit all round, obviously not to the extent of the freerolling that FL and Asc were up to until recent developments
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:15   #77
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Re: Second half of the round

That depends how you put it no one has said we are grounded, but there have been no attacks, and looking at the fleets page only one or two people attacking before 10am. So in effect yes we are grounded. With many more incs than fleets, even our best gals are being roided hard, so no surprise the weaker ones get totally owned.
No-one deserves to be in the frame for no.1 on the basis of their defence other than Ult. But the game is interesting for the politics not just for how many green fleets you can haul around.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:29   #78
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Re: Second half of the round

Personally dont find a 4 on 1 bashing that interesting. Would have preferred if there were 3 potential blocks. That would have been a far more interesting dynamic. This is all just as tedious and samey as every round
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:36   #79
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Re: Second half of the round

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A small correction: Butcher isn't on anyone's side. I'm not even convinced he's playing the same game.
I think he's playing Connect Four, tbh.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:36   #80
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Re: Second half of the round

Well thats the thing, I agree on the preference for more interesting alignments. However, there were three potential blocks with Asc/FL being the third, but that just results in the 3rd force watching while the other two knock chunks out of each other.
You may not like it, but Asc turning on Ult was surely the most unexpected political move in quite some time. It has almost certainly failed from Ascs perspective (spectacularly successful from BF's tho!), but that does not alter the fact that it was a move against the expectations of most, including most of its own members.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 16:39   #81
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Re: Second half of the round

CARE CARD HERE!

I say that we, Asc, have done something right, cause my shit smartphone takes a minute to think about life before loading the ally def page.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:00   #82
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Re: Second half of the round

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Well thats the thing, I agree on the preference for more interesting alignments. However, there were three potential blocks with Asc/FL being the third, but that just results in the 3rd force watching while the other two knock chunks out of each other.
You may not like it, but Asc turning on Ult was surely the most unexpected political move in quite some time. It has almost certainly failed from Ascs perspective (spectacularly successful from BF's tho!), but that does not alter the fact that it was a move against the expectations of most, including most of its own members.
Correction. Asc, Fl and Rogues being the third - then you threw Rogues under the bus, thus resulting in the round playing out as it has. There was intention there from Rogues to make the round interesting, but instead you chose the easy way out in my eyes. I fully expected everything Asc has done since that moment, nub raiding to a value lead, stockpiling and then trying to be the heroes that come in and take all the glory. In fact, most of Rogues did.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:11   #83
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Re: Second half of the round

Now that is an interesting charge. I heard swing make the same accusation, that we had an avoidance agreement and broke it by gal raiding one of ur forts (You gal raided ours too btw, tho my recollection of the order of events is poor). The thing is I didnt even know we had an agreement until Swing complained.
Whether it existed or not, an avoidance agreement does not make a block. And even if there was a formal block created, wtf would it have done? As I was trying to say, a third force automatically becomes fence sitters. The intentions behind sitting on the fence may differ. You can be on the fence in the hopes of easy noob bashing, or you can be on the fence waiting to support whoever turns out to be the weaker side in the two sided war.
However the effect is the same, an easy ride, until intervention decisively swings the main war. That is exactly what Asc did. You may say we joined the wrong side, but the simple fact is that ult is by far the most effective alliance in the game, going the other way would have been even more decisive.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:12   #84
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Re: Second half of the round

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Correction. Asc, Fl and Rogues being the third - then you threw Rogues under the bus, thus resulting in the round playing out as it has. There was intention there from Rogues to make the round interesting, but instead you chose the easy way out in my eyes. I fully expected everything Asc has done since that moment, nub raiding to a value lead, stockpiling and then trying to be the heroes that come in and take all the glory. In fact, most of Rogues did.
Untrue from start to finish.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:13   #85
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Re: Second half of the round

Hmmm, should probably get out the conversations from Zhil then
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:15   #86
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Re: Second half of the round

For the record, I'm not saying you've done the wrong thing by joining a side, or make the decision you have. You've just added to another boring political round
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:17   #87
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
For the record, I'm not saying you've done the wrong thing by joining a side, or make the decision you have. You've just added to another boring political round
As we see it we decided to stay the course, Rogues decided to do their own thing instead of being patient, and that's their business. There's no throwing under the bus, and there's no attempt by us to be 'heroes' either.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:19   #88
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Re: Second half of the round

Yeah, but why would it have been more interesting if a, we hit BF, or b, we continued to fence sit to the end.
There are only so many options available, we judged fence sitting til the end to be impossible. This left jumping one way or the other. Ult had a value lead and a formidable reputation, so we judged them the stronger force despite BF being slightly ahead at the point of our intervention.

Edit:
Politics in PA is fluid in PA only until you act, then it hardens, as people become embittered by the incs. You said it yourself, Rogues wont shift position. Ascendancy having ruined Ults chances could theoretically be convinced to do an about turn and hit BF, but while being pummeled this is exceedingly unlikely.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:21   #89
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Re: Second half of the round

We also had no such agreement with you prior to the one night we hit your fort in the opening ten days. Then there were conversations and agreements that were broken on your part by whomever was in charge, as our forts got hit for 3 nights in a row by yourselves, rainbows and p3ng. Funny how you only decided to hit our forts when other alliances did. Another easy option?
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:24   #90
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Re: Second half of the round

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Yeah, but why would it have been more interesting if a, we hit BF, or b, we continued to fence sit to the end.
There are only so many options available, we judged fence sitting til the end to be impossible. This left jumping one way or the other. Ult had a value lead and a formidable reputation, so we judged them the stronger force despite BF being slightly ahead at the point of our intervention.
Agreed. I wasn't the one making the decisions. In fact, I vigorously protested what our HC's put in motion. So much so, that I withdrew my officer position within the alliance and continued to play as a peon. I was quite happy for Rogues to go about in the same manner as which Asc have conducted themselves through to this point of the round. Like I said, I'm not saying it was bad decision making on your part. Just stating facts. And these facts made us not want to aid your cause in any way at this stage of the round
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:36   #91
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Re: Second half of the round

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how you only decided to hit our forts when other alliances did. Another easy option?
This is the common misconception that convergence=co-operation. Norse is hitting our gals atm, but i dont think they are actively co-operating with Ult, or getting target lists, and the same may be true for other small allies hitting us, I just dont know.
The situation is not quite the same as norse is targetting us knowing we are under attack. However we piggied BowS on your gals (twice) entirely accidentally, and much to our annoyance since we launch late. The simple fact is when you cant hit P3n/ND/FL for NAPS/alliances, and are avoiding Ult/BF/CT as the main protagonists for fear of accidentally taking sides, then Bows and Rogues gals automatically took the hits because there were not many left.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:44   #92
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Re: Second half of the round

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We also had no such agreement with you prior to the one night we hit your fort in the opening ten days. Then there were conversations and agreements that were broken on your part by whomever was in charge, as our forts got hit for 3 nights in a row by yourselves, rainbows and p3ng. Funny how you only decided to hit our forts when other alliances did. Another easy option?
I dont think we directly worked with Asc to hit Rogues?
Asc has allready said they are willing to jump sides to the Ult block, guess its a desperate move to regain ground if they go with it.

7:7 wont get def while 6:3 and 6:8 is in Asc btw.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:46   #93
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Re: Second half of the round

You did not have these naps publicly at this stage of the round, just like our co-operation/fort avoidance wasn't public. Therefore, I cannot say what you are stating is either accurate or inaccurate. All I know is that an agreement was broken at a coincidental time that all others decided to hit our forts. Funnily enough, it was a time we were not only starting to outvalue you having hidden value for the opening weeks, but getting very close on score also.

The decision you took at this 'coinicidental time', is ultimately going to cost you the round, because we have no intention of letting you swoop to victory uncontested after this (as it was looking)...unless of course something else changes
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:46   #94
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Re: Second half of the round

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This is the common misconception that convergence=co-operation. Norse is hitting our gals atm, but i dont think they are actively co-operating with Ult, or getting target lists, and the same may be true for other small allies hitting us, I just dont know.
The situation is not quite the same as norse is targetting us knowing we are under attack. However we piggied BowS on your gals (twice) entirely accidentally, and much to our annoyance since we launch late. The simple fact is when you cant hit P3n/ND/FL for NAPS/alliances, and are avoiding Ult/BF/CT as the main protagonists for fear of accidentally taking sides, then Bows and Rogues gals automatically took the hits because there were not many left.
This is why people dislike Asc. Due to the constant "bottom" feeding.
Im pretty sure from most allies stand point this round has been very very boring due to FL/Asc pols
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:48   #95
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Re: Second half of the round

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I dont think we directly worked with Asc to hit Rogues?
Asc has allready said they are willing to jump sides to the Ult block, guess its a desperate move to regain ground if they go with it.

7:7 wont get def while 6:3 and 6:8 is in Asc btw.
It's pretty comfortable to cross defend in gal pal. It's not like we put more than 15 attacks on them. Pretty easy in a gal of 7 Asc to deal with? When they outvalue us considerably also. Just be quiet imo
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:50   #96
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Re: Second half of the round

And judging by the news scans, there weren't any fleets moving outside of gal!
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:52   #97
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Re: Second half of the round

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It is not anything like as unfair as you paint it since asc is being hit by
Ult: 60
Rogues: 50
Penguins: 39
NewDawn: 41
HR: 37
Norse: 22
ODDR: 17
Thats 266.
Now you will correctly retort that this is not a 'block', indeed you could say that formally only Rogues and Ult are a 'side' however nor can the rest be dismissed as random incs since p3n and ND dropped NAPs to hit us, and the other 3 have hit us three days in succession.
A fully justified reprisal for all our shameless noob bashing to be sure, but it still has an effect on us losing roids regardless of the motivation. Therefore if you include Asc, who are not hitting ult in an organised way, as part of the block against ult, you have to conceed, that those who are hitting us repeatedly but not formally aligned have to be given equal billing!
And thus its all square and entirely fair.
I wasn't trying to make it look unfair. I simply responded to clouds who didn't believe blue_espers claim of 1 third of the universe. Hell, I even left out norse, cobra and other opportunist who officially they weren't part of the block hitting ult.

Such is the way of pa these days, just gang up with 1/3 of the universe vs a single alliances untill they're bled dry. It's not pretty and it's not that much fun if you're on the receiving end, but it's damn effective.
Kinda makes you miss "the good old days" of 2 actual blocks going head to head the entire round.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 17:54   #98
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Re: Second half of the round

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This is why people dislike Asc. Due to the constant "bottom" feeding.
Im pretty sure from most allies stand point this round has been very very boring due to FL/Asc pols
I may not like it put this way: but you are essentially correct. My key point to krypton has been that a third force is inherently boring. It might be possible to do what norse have done and hit all the big allies equally. However I dont think so. We went to war with ult because we gal raided them once, that has resulted in 3 days of 200+ incs. Hitting the bigger alliances is seen as taking a side, you cannot sensibly freewheel as a large alliance and keep your options open, one raid and you are stuck on a side.

Edit: did i say Gal raided? disingenuous, much! p-targetted. Nevertheless, the mentality that one attack results in a cycle of reprisal means you cannot sensibly do anything other than bottom feed unless you commit to a side.
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 18:01   #99
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Re: Second half of the round

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Asc has allready said they are willing to jump sides to the Ult block, guess its a desperate move to regain ground if they go with it.
I dont know if you got that from my posing theoretical changes to show how politics actually wont move, but if so you misinterpreted it, as I was saying it really couldnt happen, but in the fluid political world krypton would like it is what should happen if Asc was truly balancing things out
I dont see how such a move would help us regain ground, rather it would undermine our position yet further, since we have just destroyed Ults value lead. Too much maneuvering and no-one trusts you at all. (another impediment to proper fluid politics)
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Unread 3 Jul 2015, 18:23   #100
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Re: Second half of the round

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I dont know if you got that from my posing theoretical changes to show how politics actually wont move, but if so you misinterpreted it, as I was saying it really couldnt happen, but in the fluid political world krypton would like it is what should happen if Asc was truly balancing things out
I dont see how such a move would help us regain ground, rather it would undermine our position yet further, since we have just destroyed Ults value lead. Too much maneuvering and no-one trusts you at all. (another impediment to proper fluid politics)
No i take it from what Zhil said in the joint channel last night
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