Planetarion Forums - Matrix: Revolutions *spoilers*

furball · 6 Nov 2003, 00:13

I saw it at 1.30pm UK time

How did they manage to turn something that was so good (Matrix) into something so bad (Revolutions)?

The Matrix: Good script/plot, focused on the main characters, excellent special effects.
The Matrix Reloaded: Ok script/plot, focused on the main characters, very good special effects
The Matrix Revolutions: Shite script/plot, spent too much time on bit-part characters, good special effects.

The plot is appalling:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnarak

It's crap.
Nothing is really explained.
Smith merges with The Oracle to produce a super smith.
Neo goes to 01 and persuades the machines he's their only chance to stop smith.
Smith kicks Neo's ass and takes him over.
When he taks over Neo everything is suddenly fixed again.
Trinity dies at some stage.
Zion is left in rubble but people are alive.
There's no closure and it's left very open.
The End.

There's only one thing that people are getting wrong - Smith doesn't 'take over' Neo. Neo lets Smith infect him, but acts a bit like in the first movie where he explodes Smith. once inside, he uses his '1337' hacking abilities to destroy him - but it's harder than before, as shown by the time it takes. Watch it again (if you can stomach it) and you'll see what I mean.

And...the basic ending to the film is that peace breaks out between Man and the Machines. Neo promises to stop Smith (a threat to them, since he's now so powerful - Oracle's powers) in return for peace between the two (thus an end to the existance of the Matrix). We see at the end the conversation between the Oracle and the Architect, where humans who want to will be freed, etc.

Of course, the film doesn't resolve what happens to everyone in the Matrix, Neo, Trinity after her death, etc.

The major problem with the film is that it doesn't focus on the best characters - Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Smith - enough. The entire docks episode (about 1 hour long?) is about the kid from the animatrix, Link's girlfriend and the man controlling one of the ARVs (?) - the gun platform. Why? Why? Why? If I'd wanted to see this, I'd wouldn't have actually got bored with the special effects. Simply, it tries to be too many films at once. There's a reason why these people don't have big parts in the other films - because they're not good enough and not important enough. And personally, I like Keanu Reeves.

As for the plot, it's both inane and insane. Why do they use chainguns and not EMP? (the loaders used hand-held EMP guns) Why focus so much on the loader kid and Link's girlfriend? It's important to get the gate open for the Hammer (I think that's its name) but they needed to strike a banance between the two. They overused the special effects in the docks scene - although it was the only thing that kept me awake. The script is poor: most people will be confused by what's happening to Neo until he gets back to the Matrix/real world. The program 'family' is a nice idea, I'll grant them that though.

There are plus points to the film:
+ Good special effects as the Sentinels pour into Zion.
+ An excellent scene when Neo and Smith battle it out in the real world on the ship - the EMP gun shot in the eyes is gruesome. This part of the film - Neo & Trinity going to the Machines - is the best, ranking up with Neo turning around to face Agent Smith in the first film (very watchable, even after 20+ viewings).
+ Morpheus and Niobe sharing in the end of the War - but damn it, DEVELOP THIS!!!
+ It was a good twist to find that the EMP from the Hammer knocked out Zion's systems - I was sitting there thinking "Yes, Zion's been saved!.....Oh....damn it".
+ You can take a lot of meanings from the film, especially at the end. The Oracle said something at the end along the lines of "No, I didn't know. But I believed; I believed". With the happy world and shining light before her, you can look at this as Heaven having been reached, where the people are set free.

Sadly, too much is left hanging open. Since there's probably not Matrix 4, we'll never get to see Neo's return from the Machine City, nor the Machines and Humans living together again (unless there's Animatrix 2). What about Trinity's body? Couldn't Neo have influenced her body in the real world as well? - he's learnt from the Oracle that his powers extend into the real world, so why not use them as seen in Reloaded - or at least try.

I just wish that they'd used test audiences when editing Revolutions: the docks scene is overdone by far. Spoils the entire film for me.

Rating: 2 furballs out of 5.

Luckeh!!!! · 6 Nov 2003, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Hey I heard everyone was entitled to an opinion

Not if you live in a commie world

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:15

I love people who think they are movie critics.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParraCida

I love people who think they are movie critics.

The one writing for The Times is particularly rubbish.

IncubusGod · 6 Nov 2003, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Hey I heard everyone was entitled to an opinion outside of Hitler's Germany.

You need to edit that to:

"hitlers germany and the GD discussion boards"

Lupin · 6 Nov 2003, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParraCida

I love people who think they are movie critics.

just because they dont like the movie you like?

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

You need to edit that to:

"hitlers germany and the GD discussion boards"

Are you being censored?

No.

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

The one writing for The Times is particularly rubbish.

I think you need to drink a nice big cup of SHUT THE **** UP.

Other than that, you're ok.

PS. And before you start: I am simply saying that you have made your point and that right now you simply seem to be annoying other people by reposting your same point a million times, but since I don't actually feel like saying that I just said shut the hell up, but since you would reply with oh the hostility that is so nasty and haha you can't even argue normally you just insult people instead I have to write this ****ing disclaimer so now you can commence with shutting the hell up thanks.

Lupin · 6 Nov 2003, 00:26

wow a lot of defence in an offensive post!

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupin

just because they dont like the movie you like?

No, because they state their opinion as a fact.

I don't mind people not liking it, why the hell should I care if you don't like it. You're not me, I'm not you, is it completely necessary to convince eachother that one movie seen by two people, who are not eachother, is as one of those two people perceives it?

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:27

I don't see how that relates in any way to what I said before.

PS.

All the critics panned it, so you must be laughing at them too.

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupin

wow a lot of defence in an offensive post!

I'm simply saving me two posts saying all that shit later.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParraCida

No, because they state their opinion as a fact.

It gets very tiresome to word each sentence as to imply this, and it's crude to post 'THIS IS MY OPINION' at the start of the post, when it seems redundent to do so.

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:32

The soundtrack was pretty

though, regardless of what you think of the movie.

I was impressed with the song at the closing titles.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:33

If we're talking about soundtracks, I think the one to Vanilla Sky cannot be beaten.

ParraCida · 6 Nov 2003, 00:36

I wouldn't know, I wasn't comparing, just saying

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 00:37

Beach Boys, Radiohead, Spiritualised, etc

pablissimo · 6 Nov 2003, 01:08

The soundtrack was better in the second one, this one it was all moody gothic chanty crap.

There were however a couple of good tunes I'll be forced to acquire.

Radical Edward · 6 Nov 2003, 12:05

one thing I haven't seen mentioned then... do they explain how on earth Neo blows up sentinels in the real world?

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

one thing I haven't seen mentioned then... do they explain how on earth Neo blows up sentinels in the real world?

Blah blah access through the matrix blah blah

Proteus · 6 Nov 2003, 12:37

I was looking forward to there being two Matrices and seeing the real real world.

6 Nov 2003, 13:16

The fist punch through water is good and also the voice of the computer shook the whole cinema :/

So Smith took in the Oracle and Neo, but this was too much good inside of him so he exploded inward. (the program overloaded)

damn good film

Super · 6 Nov 2003, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I don't see how that relates in any way to what I said before.

PS.

All the critics panned it, so you must be laughing at them too.

The critics are hardly a reliable source for anything.

Most critics said that Led Zeppelin were shit when they started out, and they went on to be one of the greatest bands in rock.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 13:22

That's a musical statement, and music is a much more open playing field than film.

[edit]

The same critics who thought highly of the first two.

Tomkat · 6 Nov 2003, 14:01

The only character with any substance was the train guy.

Haha, he has wonky teeth and he kicked Neo's arse with one punch.
Owned, you wooden actor-wannabe.

PS: The film is cheesy and predictable.

Radical Edward · 6 Nov 2003, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Blah blah access through the matrix blah blah

is that it? how flat.

Tomkat · 6 Nov 2003, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

I saw it at 1.30pm UK time

How did they manage to turn something that was so good (Matrix) into something so bad (Revolutions)?

The Matrix has always been overrated. It's a nice film, nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

Neo promises to stop Smith (a threat to them, since he's now so powerful - Oracle's powers) in return for peace between the two (thus an end to the existance of the Matrix).

The Wachowski brothers leaning on the religious side a little too much there. Omg its like jesus saving humanity. Like, woah. Etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

The entire docks episode (about 1 hour long?) is about the kid from the animatrix, Link's girlfriend and the man controlling one of the ARVs (?) - the gun platform. Why? Why? Why?

Because there is noone else there that we know, apart from the old counsellor. Also, I remember lots of people asking "who was the kid in matrix 2 who loved neo and wanted to be his best buddy?". This allows that kid some kind of substance. Although it is cheese+++++++

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

And personally, I like Keanu Reeves.

Hahahahahhahahahhaha. Ha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

The program 'family' is a nice idea, I'll grant them that though.

Call me racist, but I really wanted him to say "thankyou, come again".

furball · 6 Nov 2003, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

The Matrix has always been overrated. It's a nice film, nothing more.

Personal opinion - I think the Matrix is an excellent film. Good fun to watch, the special effects, dont' really get old, and there's penty of easy-to-understand drama/action. Love story in it as well - not bad - it's a basic voyage of self-discovery for Neo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Because there is noone else there that we know, apart from the old counsellor. Also, I remember lots of people asking "who was the kid in matrix 2 who loved neo and wanted to be his best buddy?". This allows that kid some kind of substance. Although it is cheese+++++++

To understand the kid, you have to have seen the Animatrix. Reloaded isn't at all clear as to who he is, while in Revolutions you only hear "he set me free". You can't expect cinema audiences to realise/understand when there's so much other stuff going on.

I think what I'm trying to say is that it focuses too much on the 'bit-part' characters. A decent plot would have seen the sentinels get close to the Temple, etc. Instead, there's a minor bit of drama with the EMP blast in the docks. That's it. How about using the Captains - Morpheus, Niobe, perhaps use Ghost as well (i know he's not a Caption) to arrive on the Hammer just in time. Offload them to co-ordinate the defence and send the ship round to attackon the Sentinels' flanks with EMP blasts. To be honest, I'd change the entire scene - they spend too long watching bullets fly at the Sentinels and not enough time on useful stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Hahahahahhahahahhaha. Ha.

your opinion (and the rest of the world's)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Call me racist, but I really wanted him to say "thankyou, come again".

I think that their ethenicity created made them into a stronger family unit, perhaps? no idea here either...someone's got to do it :P

acropolis · 6 Nov 2003, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

The philospohical stuff from the second DID play a role however it was more toned down Im sure as they got alot of criticism from people who couldnt understand it.

Seeing as they filmed two and three at the same time, I have certain doubts about how criticism of two affected three.

I saw revolutions. It's a letdown.

And I really liked two. Kinda reminds me of the alien trilogy, one was a really original idea turned into a great movie, two was just a classic action movie based on one, and three was a letdown.

Anyone who didn't like matrix one and two is clearly a faggot (if you hate the plot and the science fiction they are still classic action flicks. Anyone who doesn't like action flicks is either female or gay. QED.)

pablissimo · 6 Nov 2003, 14:49

The second was in no way 'good'. They thought 'I know, **** the storyline, and **** the script, we'll just have two hours of CGI'.

The third's script was about eight times worse than the second, but at least the action was a little more toned down and broken up. Shame there wasn't really much 'real' kung-fu shit but lots of flying round the place. Still better than two though.

acropolis · 6 Nov 2003, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablissimo

The script of three was eight times worse than two, there was less action, and even the action that was there wasn't the cool "in-matrix" kung-fu that is kinda the entire point of the series. that's why i thought three was a lot better than two.

ooh good point

Hostile · 6 Nov 2003, 14:58

it did have a storyline and it did have a script and they were better than 90% of other Holywood action movies which are the only comparable things ffs.

pablissimo · 6 Nov 2003, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by acropolis

ooh good point

Played for entirely misinterpreting my words. I prefered the action in three over two simply because it didn't get to the point of tediom as it did in two. There still wasn't anything unique in there but it beats ten minutes of 'lets fight some CGI Smiths'.

The only redeeming feature of two was the highway chase simply because of the spectacle and of having been something that hadn't really been done before on that scale.

djbass · 6 Nov 2003, 15:51

I also have just recently seen it, and thought it was quite good, and not just certain sections but the entire movie.

Though I also thought Reloaded was quite good as well, after seeing the third installment I feel perhaps they could have lengthed Revolutions and split it into two parts in it's place instead.

That being said, I disagree about the ending I thought it fitted perfectly. Of course if you have not watched the Animatrix and played Enter the Matrix to completion then you probably wont understand or appreciate it fully.

There was only one open end I could spot that still requires answering, in the game the Oracle talks of the two rogue programs and their child as being important and special. Revolutions introduces them and explains a bit more, but as is evident at the end she obviously has some amount of control over the matrix but we don't know why or to what extent.

=[DJ Bass]=

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

it did have a storyline and it did have a script and they were better than 90% of other Holywood action movies which are the only comparable things ffs.

No. It's not 'just' an action film, it's meant to be one man's quest to save humanity through bad philosophy or some such bollocks. You don't see Jean Claude van Segalenegger movies with any attempts at philosophy. No. You've got to compare it with good examples of the science fiction genre. Claiming its an action film is just an attempt to hide how mind numbingly poor it is.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by acropolis

Anyone who didn't like matrix one and two is clearly a faggot (if you hate the plot and the science fiction they are still classic action flicks. Anyone who doesn't like action flicks is either female or gay. QED.)

I like science fiction. I like (some) action films.

I hated reloaded, and got bored of the gimmickery of the matrix.

[edit]

Don't forget the CG in the first one is pretty crude as well.

wakey · 6 Nov 2003, 18:00

I never thought I'd ever say this but I enjoyed Gigli more than this.

While I loved the first movie, reloaded was so dissapointing that I really was expecting revolutions to be shit. Now I cant think of any movie ive gone in thinking its going to be shit that due to these low expectations I havent come out thinking it was a better movie than I expected, at least that was the case until last night. I wanted to like it but the movie was a mess and really was predictable and pretty boring. It was as if they forgot what made the first movie so good and instead decided to see how much money they could blow on fairly poor CG.

CrashTester · 6 Nov 2003, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I hated reloaded, and got bored of the gimmickery of the matrix.

Sorry that you have a simple mind that gets bored unless something is arty and farty.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashTester

Sorry you have a simple mind that gets bored unless something is arty and farty.

Whut?

FooFighter · 6 Nov 2003, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonentity

Sadly, too much is left hanging open. Since there's probably not Matrix 4, we'll never get to see Neo's return from the Machine City

Thats cos he's dead, unless its his soul that comes back....

Intrepid00 · 6 Nov 2003, 18:30

w00t

Bad acting does die.

Phang · 6 Nov 2003, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

I think its because the Matrix does suck. I mean honeslty, Nukes give off EMP blasts so how did the machine survive in 01? Can you say plot hole.

YES WE KNOW

ITS SCI FI

GET OVER IT

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

YES WE KNOW

ITS BAD SCI FI

GET OVER IT

You left out a vital word.

Phang · 6 Nov 2003, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You left out a vital word.

'i dislike fiction because it isn't based in reality'

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

'i dislike fiction because it isn't based in reality'

It'll be a fantasy. Science Fiction tends to work in a background of decent science; examples being, say, StarMaker or Iain M Banks. The new stuff is new, but there's no rewriting history.

acropolis · 6 Nov 2003, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It'll be a fantasy. Science Fiction tends to work in a background of decent science; examples being, say, StarMaker or Iain M Banks. The new stuff is new, but there's no rewriting history.

iain m banks being based on decent science is laughable

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by acropolis

iain m banks being based on decent science is laughable

It may be made up, but at least it has proper emp-y stuff from nukes, and the like.

Phang · 6 Nov 2003, 19:13

feh. fantasy/sci-fi then. but small points of pedantry do not a bad film make. the only real problem is the whole 'how the hell do they get enough energy from humans' issue - and i say again, IT'S SCI-FI

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Nov 2003, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

feh. fantasy/sci-fi then. but small points of pedantry do not a bad film make. the only real problem is the whole 'how the hell do they get enough energy from humans' issue - and i say again, IT'S SCI-FI

You're only allowed to invoke magic in the domain of high technology. There's a difference between 'not scientifically possible under current models' (such as warp drive, and the like) and 'will never be possible ever because we understand this phenomenon totally', like trying to get a stone to fall uphill.

Intrepid00 · 7 Nov 2003, 01:41

If the robots at 01 where going to be EMP proof to the nukes then to keep consistancy they shouldn't have been able to use EMP weapons in the Movie.