Planetarion Forums

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:02

Burn baby burn!

The question is, why aren't these victims as deserving of UN Aid as those who are recieving aid from the earthquake?

Fire is after all Nature's Purger.

Aryn · 31 Dec 2004, 07:04

don't troll :\

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:09

Is that everyone's answer to an argument they are not equipped to debate with? Trolling wouldn't even provide a reason for my post, trolling would be gratifying in the deaths without any argument, trolling would be posting saying the people over in the earthquake area's are spoiled with all this money they get without supplying reason.

I supply reason and yet I still get troll comments, show some courage and argue this or admit to ignorance of issues of greater complexity than; IF this happens DO this.

Why are we all so easily led these days?

Dante Hicks · 31 Dec 2004, 07:13

It's fairly obvious that a small incident could be handled (to a lesser or greater extent) by domestic emergency services. 100+ people dying, while still a tragedy hardly compares to 100,000 or whatever the toll is now. If 100k people died in Western Europe I doubt our health services could cope, let alone impoverished parts of Asia.

Aryn · 31 Dec 2004, 07:19

comparing the disaster to a small scale fire is what looked like a t roll. if it wasn't than i appologize. to me it looks like you're saying that people who have lost their whole town, house, family, friends, etc are less deserving of some aid than a tragedy of 5 deaths in an isolated fire incident.

yes i see your point in that they shoud be equally deserving. but a small scale fire such as that should be easily handled by the town it's in. now the earthquake and waves affected 9 countries who as you say are too poor to conquer famine and such, and who simply cannot afford the cleanup of their countries themselves.

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:20

From reading the report it couldn't be handled by domestic emergency services...

Then again with regards to your latter statement, if 100k western european people took the decision to live in a glass bubble under the sea off the north west coast of ireland in an area of sea where icebergs had been known to drift and their location left them many many hours from emergency services reaching them, and an Iceberg came down and smacked it open... you wouldn't be exactly enthuiastic about funding an aid effort with regards to that would you?

It's not like all our victims were deluded to the facts of the area being overpopulated and somewhat dangerously located over a major fault line on a somewhat overdeveloped coast with an insufficient emergency infrastructure when they choose to vacation there or live there now is it?

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

comparing the disaster to a small scale fire is what looked like a t roll. if it wasn't than i appologize. to me it looks like you're saying that people who have lost their whole town, house, family, friends, etc are less deserving of some aid than a tragedy of 5 deaths in an isolated fire incident.

yes i see your point in that they shoud be equally deserving. but a small scale fire such as that should be easily handled by the town it's in. now the earthquake and waves affected 9 countries who as you say are too poor to conquer famine and such, and who simply cannot afford the cleanup of their countries themselves.

I'm pretty sure when a nation went insolvent in the old days(to a variety of causes), they got conquered/taken advantage of and things got better in the long term anyway.... why are we messing with something that wasn't broken?

Why do we insist on insuring the unsustainable lately?

Dante Hicks · 31 Dec 2004, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

From reading the report it couldn't be handled by domestic emergency services...

How so?

"Young club-goers have been helping emergency crews rush the injured to ambulances.

At least five bodies were reported to be lined up on the pavement as fire crews and rescue teams helped people out of the club."

Doesn't seem the Argentinian health service is close to collapse from that, unless we're reading a different report. Again, how is this comparable to a wide-scale tragedy?

Quote:

Then again with regards to your latter statement, if 100k western european people took the decision to live in a glass bubble under the sea off the north west coast of ireland in an area of sea where icebergs had been known to drift and their location left them many many hours from emergency services reaching them, and an Iceberg came down and smacked it open... you wouldn't be exactly enthuiastic about funding an aid effort with regards to that would you?

A fairer analogy would be if Belgium or the Netherlands (very very high population densities, living on areas known to be low-lying and thus prone to flooding, in an era with rising sea-levels) had apalling flooding. And yes, of course I'd be as enthusiastic on an aid effort in such an instance. You can repeat this "overcrowded" stuff as much as you life, but as I live in one of the densely populated places on the planet (London and Western Europe generally) then I'm not exactly going to feel the same way.

Aryn · 31 Dec 2004, 07:36

guess paul and i can sleep easy tonight knowing canada should get aid as we are a 'less dense' country

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

How so?

"Young club-goers have been helping emergency crews rush the injured to ambulances.

At least five bodies were reported to be lined up on the pavement as fire crews and rescue teams helped people out of the club."

Doesn't seem the Argentinian health service is close to collapse from that, unless we're reading a different report. Again, how is this comparable to a wide-scale tragedy?

A fairer analogy would be if Belgium or the Netherlands (very very high population densities, living on areas known to be low-lying and thus prone to flooding, in an era with rising sea-levels) had apalling flooding. And yes, of course I'd be as enthusiastic on an aid effort in such an instance. You can repeat this "overcrowded" stuff as much as you life, but as I live in one of the densely populated places on the planet (London and Western Europe generally) then I'm not exactly going to feel the same way.

They've taken tonnes of preventative measures though and carefully planned out living there while respecting the power of nature.... it isn't a fair analogy... these people in indo-china have demonstrated no respect of the power of nature in regards to the catastrophic situation they have ended up in.

Aryn · 31 Dec 2004, 07:49

calgary has too many people

if there's an earthquake it must be my fault cause i choose to live in such a populated area. guess i should pack my bags and find somewhere else to live :\

Sunday8pm · 31 Dec 2004, 07:51

Are you located on a dangerous fault line with a history of earthquakes? Are your buildings made of poorly constructed mud and straw? Do you not see the whole picture and instead pick parts that make your argument sound reasonable when it's vastly flawed? Do you all live 3-4 people to a small room in calgary? Are you located 100's of miles away from emergency infrastructure with a poor road network connecting you?

If that is true, then yes I'd strongly advise leaving calgary.

MrL_JaKiri · 31 Dec 2004, 10:07

What would you do if Japan was hit by an 8.9?

JonnyBGood · 31 Dec 2004, 10:35

Nobody respects the power of nature because we're all living on a planet where the super-volcano underneath Yellowstone national park is due to erupt so we're due whatever happens to us so there.

Stew · 31 Dec 2004, 12:07

The people living in Sri Lanka, Indonesia etc are really rich and can afford all preventative measures feasible or easily move to somewhere less at risk.

[/Sunday8pm]

lokken · 31 Dec 2004, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Nobody respects the power of nature because we're all living on a planet where the super-volcano underneath Yellowstone national park is due to erupt so we're due whatever happens to us so there.

JBG knows

Phang · 31 Dec 2004, 14:21

canada may not be dense, but paul adam certainly is.

Embroglio · 31 Dec 2004, 14:39

uh oh, me and sunday have the same last name and are both from scottish families

Dante Hicks · 31 Dec 2004, 19:29

I think Sunday is the ginger guy from 12 Monkeys who wanted to wipe out humanity.

vampire_lestat · 31 Dec 2004, 19:54

you can hardly blame people in the third world for being unprepaired for a natural desaster, they could barely look after themselves (in general) before this happened, they didn't have the disposable income to spend on that kind of stuff.

Sunday8pm · 1 Jan 2005, 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Nobody respects the power of nature because we're all living on a planet where the super-volcano underneath Yellowstone national park is due to erupt so we're due whatever happens to us so there.

Wow Jonny quoting senstationalist dead donkey media crap for once.

Most scientists are kinda disappointed at the moment that the caledra or whatever it's called under yellowstones is looking like it's slowly going dormant of sorts and nothing of a super volcanic event is likely to ever happen again in this lifetime or the next few...

Androme · 1 Jan 2005, 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Most scientists

What about the rest? Isn't that categorising scientists?

Sunday8pm · 1 Jan 2005, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

What about the rest? Isn't that categorising scientists?

Most scientists in that scientific area THEN.... I'm sorry I Forgot you have to overexplain things for pedants here.

MrL_JaKiri · 1 Jan 2005, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Most scientists in that scientific area THEN.... I'm sorry I Forgot you have to overexplain things for pedants here.

He was probably more referring to the 'disappointed', although I'm not sure.

Androme · 1 Jan 2005, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Most scientists in that scientific area THEN.... I'm sorry I Forgot you have to overexplain things for pedants here.

Don't be sorry, just admit you're wrong and make an unfair judgement

JonnyBGood · 1 Jan 2005, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Wow Jonny quoting senstationalist dead donkey media crap for once.

Most scientists are kinda disappointed at the moment that the caledra or whatever it's called under yellowstones is looking like it's slowly going dormant of sorts and nothing of a super volcanic event is likely to ever happen again in this lifetime or the next few...

Equally though if you look up the history of major earthquakes I can't find one listed for that location, ie southern thailand, north-west indonesia, sri lanka in the last two hundred years. Surely that counts as a few lifetimes?

PS Where did you read about that?