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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 16:59   #1
Black Dog
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Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

In their great wisdom, some people have decided that Saddam has lived long enough and that Iraq needs a big showpiece trial because there has not been enough drama there recently.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4338646.stm

I expect that this will serve as a wonderful mouthpiece for both completely objective justice, the right to a fair trial and Saddam attempting to turn the conversation away from killing lots of people.

Some people would think that this will serve as a focal point for people to blow themselves up. But that would just be too cynical.

Either way, this will dominate the news for a few weeks and will probably be the most exciting thing to come out of a courtroom since Ally McBeal.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 00:12   #2
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog
The most exciting thing to come out of a courtroom since Ally McBeal.
That would make a great tag line for it
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 00:28   #3
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Whether Saddam Hussein faces the death penalty if convicted "will be decided at the last minute," the judge said.
Charming. I hope they televise the execution as well. Preferably on fox.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 00:29   #4
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

I agree with G. Robinson that executing him would be an horrendous mistake.

(i'd also be more than tempted to try defending him but that's another story...)

let's just send him to st helena! rather than make a martyr
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:27   #5
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Apparently Saddam has now got a "shit hot" defence team (lets face it, he`s gonna need it!) http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...592109,00.html. When it came to the execution of 143 persons accused of plotting to assassinate Saddam, his legal team are saying they where found guilty by due legal process, and Saddam signed the execution warrants in the same way George Bush confirms death sentences in Texas.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:30   #6
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Exclamation Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Send him to the Moon, and let him play among the stars.

It's the only solution.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:35   #7
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Charming. I hope they televise the execution as well. Preferably on fox.
... where we'll also see Bush in the background gyrating around a metal pole licking himself.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:44   #8
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

some legal expert help me out here, but how could he have broken the law of iraq, no matter what he did, if he was pretty much god-king while he was in power?
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:53   #9
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

We have crimes against humanity and such dude.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 13:57   #10
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
We have crimes against humanity and such dude.
they are (or at least were) not part of iraqi law though.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 14:03   #11
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
they are (or at least were) not part of iraqi law though.
How do you think the nuremberg trials happened?
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 14:13   #12
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
How do you think the nuremberg trials happened?
that wasnt a german trial, was it?
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 14:20   #13
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
that wasnt a german trial, was it?
No, I think it was some kind of international tribunal.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 14:21   #14
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
that wasnt a german trial, was it?
It doesn't really matter when it comes to crimes against humanity. I mean pretty much every court can try people for crimes againt humanity.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 14:24   #15
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Oh, I should have said "International Millitary Tribunal" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 17:20   #16
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
some legal expert help me out here, but how could he have broken the law of iraq, no matter what he did, if he was pretty much god-king while he was in power?
this is a very good point and one that his defence team will argue (to my mind it's a water tight defence)

he should have been charged with genocide and he should have been tried under international law. but even with that it is notoriously tricky to put a sovereign head of state on trial.

We were luckyenough to not face this problem with Hitler. Napoleon we just exiled.

This trial was:
a) a very stupid idea
b) legally very badly handled by the americans.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 17:57   #17
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Surely the trial is being handled by the Iraqs?
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 18:08   #18
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

that's a curious point of view you've got there pyrit
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 20:20   #19
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

I've already seen Hot Shots: Part Deux, thanks.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 23:48   #20
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
Napoleon we just exiled.
And poisoned.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 23:50   #21
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

I am sure that even under the baathists there was a crime of murder. One can certainly make the argument that at least some of the people he had killed were killed illegally. However, we ignore the obvious. The new government always has the power to reinterpret the prior law.

However, I do agree that an international tribunal would have been a better idea all around.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 00:44   #22
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I am sure that even under the baathists there was a crime of murder. One can certainly make the argument that at least some of the people he had killed were killed illegally. However, we ignore the obvious. The new government always has the power to reinterpret the prior law.
it might be considered 'bad form' if a new democrat government (holding senate, congress in majority and the WH) retrospectively outlawed the dwath penalty and publicly tried george and jedd bush.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 00:53   #23
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

But the government won't have changed, just the leaders of the government.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 00:54   #24
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

To be honest, there is absolutely no way that his defence can succeed. If the US and Iraqis played by the rules, then he might actually get off. But what are the chances of that? They've already rejigged the 'constitiution' and it's election method to lock out the Sunni's, which the UN has decried.
There is no way in hell this new US set-up justice system will leave Hussain off the hook. It's a show trial. It will be all fire and brimstone even if it's all on shakey legal ground.
I mean, Iraq was invaded on very shakey legal ground. Everything was conducted on shakey legal ground. Why stop the trend?
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 01:47   #25
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Exclamation Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

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Originally Posted by dda
I am sure that even under the baathists there was a crime of murder. One can certainly make the argument that at least some of the people he had killed were killed illegally. However, we ignore the obvious. The new government always has the power to reinterpret the prior law.
Ah, but under the previous Iraqi constitution Saddam, as President, had full immunity. He printed his own 'get out of jail free' card and look--it's signed by the President of Iraq!
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 02:21   #26
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

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Originally Posted by Tactitus
Ah, but under the previous Iraqi constitution Saddam, as President, had full immunity. He printed his own 'get out of jail free' card and look--it's signed by the President of Iraq!
As did george as governor of texas ... as does jedd in florida still.

The fact is that the prosecution have ****ed up.

The only things Saddam can really be found guilty of are his genocides. That requires an international law to be guilty.

Without International Law Saddam is legally immune. The same way that geaorge and jedd are immune.

All three order people killed. Not one of them is a murderer.

The sadest fact of all is that the american prosecution never grasped this.

Saddam is a GENOCIDAL MONSTER. His crimes against the kurds are EVIL!!!

But he's not charged with them.

Always America's failure is America's meddling.

Saddam Hussein is never going to go on trial at the International court. The only crime he could be charged with there is genocide.

BUT America refuses to sign up to the International Criminal Court. America knows who sold Saddam the nerve gas that he used against the kurds.

Because America fears 'looking bad' in front of the world's press they decided to present this 'show case' in Iraq.

Well Anthony Scrivener QC is going to upset the lies. If Saddam is tried in Irag. If he is charged not with genocide, but with murder, then Saddam is NOT GUILTY. He is sovereign. He is Immune.

Being the world's Empire means that you can't always be right. It means that sometimes you have to be cruel. America's unwillingness to admit this is farcical.

Saddam is innocent of the crimes he is charged with. why?
1) because you charged him with the wrong crimes
2) because there is no legal authority for an Iraqi court to try him

IT WOULD BE MORE HONEST JUST TO SHOOT THE ****ER NOW. SAVE THE WORLD FROM THIS RIDICULOUS FARCE.

No one will be convinced and America will make a martyr out of a genocidal maniac. Lacking enemies America makes it's own

America has an empire. It is the world's empire. Please God let America grow up and run it properly.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 02:44   #27
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

I'd like to place a large bet on an assination attempt (probably involving a large bomb) succeeding and killing Sadam before the trial is over hence saving "embarassment" etc.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 13:27   #28
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Re: Saddam Hussein coming to a cinema near you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
I'd like to place a large bet on an assination attempt (probably involving a large bomb) succeeding and killing Sadam before the trial is over hence saving "embarassment" etc.
Perhaps not. Perhaps he dies of a 'heart attack'. After all, wasn't part of the early trial postponed briefly due to health concerns?

Though it's unlikely as it would be seen as him escaping justice. Being blown up might seem more 'appropriate' for the kind of overall justice he should face.

The man's a monster. He won't live through all this no matter what.
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Unread 15 Oct 2005, 14:34   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
The man's a monster. He won't live through all this no matter what.
Quite.

It's the 'what' that has everyone a bit worried.

This trial could become a mouthpiece for Saddam to denounce the new constitution. It is quite likely to result in increased activity from militants and almost certain to be a desperate attempt to secure a conviction regardless of the legal implications.

Although the Americans will be the hand controlling the puppet, they cannot be seen to be doing so. It's enormously interesting to see how the prosecution authorities will approach the case and what the general reaction of the Iraqi public will be.

I think the Americans see this as a way to mobilise public opinion and emphasise the improvement in the future prospects of Iraq. That could backfire spectacularly.
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