|
|
12 Jun 2006, 17:48
|
#201
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
At this point I must bow to pab's superiour knowledge.
PS. I'm being serious, I don't know much about rainbow tables.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 17:51
|
#202
|
Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
It's not so far removed from the idea of having a huge list of every combination of letters and symbols of a certain length, and the MD5 hashes that they hash to. So if you want to find out someone's password from the hash, you look in the tables for the hash that matches and you've got the password that hashed to it. Creating the tables takes ages, and they're large (you can buy them on DVDs) but looking things up from them is a (relative to creating the tables) a cheap operation.
Edit:
As to how large, these chaps have rainbow tables for MD5 hashes of only lower-case alphanumerics at 36gig
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 17:53
|
#203
|
Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Hang on, we're meant to change out passwords?
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 17:59
|
#204
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
So basically someone else does the actual brute force bit in advance, then you get to do a much cheaper "match the data" operation? Nifty.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:12
|
#205
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Hang on, we're meant to change out passwords?
|
yeh you can use mine if you want - megla said 123456 was safe.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:18
|
#206
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I'm actually tempted to see whether you're willing to take the joke too far
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:24
|
#207
|
Love's Sweet Exile
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
This thread is funny
__________________
--SYMM--
Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:39
|
#208
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
hey guys - turns out Ste really did change his password
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:40
|
#209
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Wtf
Shit Megla - You Said It Was Safe
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:42
|
#210
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I can see IP addresses
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:43
|
#211
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
hey guys - should I change my password too?
__________________
Stew is gay
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 18:44
|
#212
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stev
hey guys - should I change my password too?
|
yeh but don't listen to megla.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 19:18
|
#213
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
did idi come up with this witchery or did he find out from someone else?, btw i keep typing in the old password, v.annoying.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 19:42
|
#214
|
I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
I thought Yahwe said that from a legal viewpoint the NDA wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
|
at least somebody listens to me
(although from jj's perspective it would worry him because jolt might take away his admin status and make him cry)
__________________
hi
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 20:18
|
#215
|
Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Why is it useless?
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 20:30
|
#216
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I'm guessing because there are certain statutory rights which the law does not permit you to sign away. That and probably something to do with needing to abide by all sorts of proceedures which jolt haven't, or something.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 20:43
|
#217
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Confœderatio Helvetica
Posts: 323
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Posting to annouce I changed my password so whoever has my old one thinks I changed it and doesn't bother to try to old one.
Game theory ftw!
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 21:11
|
#218
|
Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
at least somebody listens to me
(although from jj's perspective it would worry him because jolt might take away his admin status and make him cry)
|
I'm not particularly worried by the NDA as you are completely correct. Whilst on paper it looks 'powerful' or whatnot, I doubt it would ever stand up to any kind of court anywhere in Europe.
However the reasons for the lack of info is because i havnt spoken to Keith or Biffy yet as both are AWOL and Idi's circumstances are somewhat in limbo without going into too much detail.
Megla has written a rather superb explanation which will be posted as soon as I get to talk to them and clear some things up but tbh most of what has been said in here has 'summed it up'. Just the part about 'so how did he do this' is missing.
__________________
Forum Administrator
Mail : [email protected] // IRC : #forums
__________________
It's not personal, it's just business.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 21:52
|
#219
|
Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
PA Forums is serious business. The music from this ytmnd made me think of this thread.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 21:58
|
#220
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
s|k made me smile
Also, goddamnit where have I heard that before.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 21:59
|
#221
|
Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
PA Forums is serious business. The music from this ytmnd made me think of this thread.
|
clearly this one is better music for the situation
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 22:07
|
#222
|
Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
s|k made me smile
Also, goddamnit where have I heard that before.
|
It's Spanish Flea by Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
|
|
|
12 Jun 2006, 23:29
|
#223
|
Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
s|k made me smile
Also, goddamnit where have I heard that before.
|
probably The Simpsons
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 11:05
|
#224
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
Dear forum users,
Recently a now former user of these forums found a flaw within the software running these forums, and managed to use it to gain access to all forum accounts, which has led to the possibility of you receiving an e-mail stating that your account has been locked out due to too many login attempts. While we are still operating under an NDA from Jolt, we cannot give specifics as to what caused this - it however is unfortunately not something any of us could have prevented from occurring.
Steps have been taken and are still being taken to ensure that this will not happen again in the future. However, we also need your assistance in keeping both your account and these forums safe. As such, we request that you change your password. While the passwords themselves were never compromised, it is still possible for others to access your account until you change it. As such, it is of the utmost importance that you do so immediately.
We also highly recommend that you choose a safe password wherever you are required to use one. Words which are in the dictionary, slight variations on your username or the word "password" are highly unsafe and should not be used. Random sequences of numbers and letters are much tougher to crack and should ideally be used. Changing your password regularly also increases the security of your account, be it on these forums or anywhere else.
On behalf of the management, we apologize for this inconvenience.
- The Planetarion Forums Team
|
See, it's not that hard.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 11:07
|
#225
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
See, it's not that hard.
|
You're back on PD. JC, get out.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 12:26
|
#226
|
lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
:crymeariver:
__________________
eXcessum
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 12:41
|
#227
|
Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
JC to be the new JBG.
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:16
|
#228
|
Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
JBG to be the new JC.
__________________
Finally free!
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:40
|
#229
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
ooh JJ made an announcement explaining it all
I have no idea what he's talking about though
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:40
|
#230
|
________
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somwhere I belong
Posts: 4,474
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Upon reading the new announcement by JJ, if your password is a word in the dictionary but it is not commonly used by society, is it still vulnerable?
EDIT: Assuming it's changed once more?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blink 182
Breathing deeply, walking backwards,
finding strength to call and ask her
Roller coaster favorite ride,
let me kiss you one last time.
|
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:45
|
#231
|
Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
In Hackers, all they said was don't have passwords of:
Now there's all talk of hash's and stuff and I, like Ste, am confused
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:53
|
#232
|
________
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somwhere I belong
Posts: 4,474
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I'm not into this stuff but I understood what JJ said.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blink 182
Breathing deeply, walking backwards,
finding strength to call and ask her
Roller coaster favorite ride,
let me kiss you one last time.
|
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:55
|
#233
|
Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I only understood 'cleartext' because of Digital Fortress
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 13:57
|
#234
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
JC to be the new JBG.
|
We swap roles when dealing with everyone gets too much. Don't tell JC but he's back dealing with pateam and the public from next week on
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:09
|
#235
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
I only said the bit about dictionary attacks as a general good practise note. All it means is that if you want your password to be secure, don't make it easy to guess. The most secure form of password is something seemingly random employing non-standard characters, preferably at least 8 characters in length (each additional character exponentially increases the average time to brute force it). If you can find a way to remember "&aP#32*b" then you're all the more secure for it.
However, as this attack didn't require knowledge of your password, password strength is pretty irrelevant.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:10
|
#236
|
Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
I only said the bit about dictionary attacks as a general good practise note.
|
So now our posts have to have words that aren't in the dictionary?
edit : Apparently practise is in the dictionary.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:12
|
#237
|
________
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somwhere I belong
Posts: 4,474
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
I only said the bit about dictionary attacks as a general good practise note. All it means is that if you want your password to be secure, don't make it easy to guess. The most secure form of password is something seemingly random employing non-standard characters, preferably at least 8 characters in length (each additional character exponentially increases the average time to brute force it). If you can find a way to remember "&aP#32*b" then you're all the more secure for it.
However, as this attack didn't require knowledge of your password, password strength is pretty irrelevant.
|
I see.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blink 182
Breathing deeply, walking backwards,
finding strength to call and ask her
Roller coaster favorite ride,
let me kiss you one last time.
|
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:21
|
#238
|
Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
A corporate trend of late seems to have been using passphrases as opposed to passwords. Instead of having
"$5d%^h!$"
as a password, which would from a brute-force perspective take a while to crack, you might have something like
"I never gave a spider-monkey a reach-around"
If you're a decent typist it doesn't take much longer, but most things at the minute seem to have very limited length of passwords allowed (anything from 14 to 64 characters). It's significantly more secure, you can increase the complexity of the passphrase without limit (though avoiding quotes from films and tv shows like above would be advisable). Phrases are also easier to remember, and so you're more likely to change it more frequently. You could even make the password relate to the site so that you can have multiple passes, so something like
"I started playing PA in 2002"
or
"Why does JJ get pissed when you say RammyRim"
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:23
|
#239
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 14:28
|
#240
|
modest sagacity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 79
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
This is all Karmulians fault for leaving a complete SQL dump of the forums where I could access it.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:08
|
#241
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Regarding JammyJim's announcement - I take it that if you received the "Your account has been locked out" e-mail, your account had not been compromised due to a password change between the date of the DB dump and a few days ago?
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:27
|
#242
|
Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Regarding JammyJim's announcement - I take it that if you received the "Your account has been locked out" e-mail, your account had not been compromised due to a password change between the date of the DB dump and a few days ago?
|
I wouldn't assume that. I got the email but my account had also pos repped idi. :/
On a related note, we now have three stickied announcements on passwords: how it was done, apology, and change your pw. Could someone please combine them into one? ta!
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:30
|
#243
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
we now have three stickied announcements on passwords: how it was done, apology, and change your pw. Could someone please combine them into one? ta!
|
Yeh and then I expect an apology for that too.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:31
|
#244
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I wouldn't assume that. I got the email but my account had also pos repped idi. :/
|
So had mine, but I did that manually two days prior.
Fair enough, I'll stick with my new password then. Ste will never guess that it's 654321
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:31
|
#245
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I wouldn't assume that. I got the email but my account had also pos repped idi. :/
On a related note, we now have three stickied announcements on passwords: how it was done, apology, and change your pw. Could someone please combine them into one? ta!
|
As the new announcement both contained an apology and advised you to change your password I just expired the other announcements. Hurrah for expiring!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:52
|
#246
|
Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Yeh and then I expect an apology for that too.
|
And an explanation on how it happened!
[edit]Thanks JBG![/edit]
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 15:56
|
#247
|
Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
So had mine, but I did that manually two days prior.
Fair enough, I'll stick with my new password then. Ste will never guess that it's 654321
|
DAMNIT THATS WHAT I CHOSE!!!!!!1
I'll have to think of another one now
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 16:00
|
#248
|
Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
So had mine, but I did that manually two days prior.
Fair enough, I'll stick with my new password then. Ste will never guess that it's 654321
|
Yo leshy, I want to make your avatar by background at work but I can't find a bigger version using google can you point me in the right direction?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 16:05
|
#249
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yo leshy, I want to make your avatar by background at work but I can't find a bigger version using google can you point me in the right direction?
|
Unfortunately the largest version I have (or had, I don't know) is (or apparently, was) only marginally bigger than my avatar
|
|
|
13 Jun 2006, 16:07
|
#250
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
|
Re: Account on Planetarion Forums locked out
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yo leshy, I want to make your avatar by background at work but I can't find a bigger version using google can you point me in the right direction?
|
google (image) 'buddy christ'
i thought sniffing out jesus was kinda a part of being irish?
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:16.
| |