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15 Sep 2019, 01:12
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#1
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speed demon
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 343
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Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Awhile ago, when distorter had 500 cu to build and amps had 1000 cu it was possible to finish a round and be unscannable.
I did this in late 60s, I was a modestly ranked planet (80th) or so.
Later amps cu was changed to 800
Now it's impossible to be unscannable as a dist whore will always need 1 amp, and scanners can max out 300 amps with 800 cu.
Having amps at 1000 cu means that within the allotted tick time it's not possible for scanners to have 300 amps
This would add a nice option for players and increase the worth of dist
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15 Sep 2019, 05:51
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#2
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Hole in the ground
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caj
Now it's impossible to be unscannable as a dist whore will always need 1 amp, and scanners can max out 300 amps with 800 cu.
Having amps at 1000 cu means that within the allotted tick time it's not possible for scanners to have 300 amps
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FWIW last round only 4 scanners had 280+ amps. Only 6 had 240+. The exponential construction costs added in round 78 were probably the main reason for this - 300 amps is *very* expensive.
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15 Sep 2019, 12:28
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
nonsense, amps are too expensive as it is compared to dists.
its about time that the cost of dists were raised!
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23 Sep 2019, 17:13
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#4
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Disagree on raising the CU cost of amps. 500 vs. 800 is already good enough to be able to reach immunity, and you don't really need the one amp.
I'm also against raising the cost of dists. The comparison is not fair, because scanners don't have to worry about their score (the ones that go for 250+, anyway), while disters do (even non-distwhores).
Maybe raise the CU cost on both, though (by the same factor) so you can sleep a bit longer without missing ticks? 1000 maximum CU queued is only 5 ticks of activity for Tot/Ter.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Sep 2019, 14:48
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#5
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Mastermind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 430
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Both Amps and Dists should have the same CU
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29 Sep 2019, 14:53
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuvatar
Both Amps and Dists should have the same CU
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This.
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29 Sep 2019, 16:17
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#7
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
keep the status quo
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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1 Oct 2019, 14:15
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#8
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuvatar
Both Amps and Dists should have the same CU
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I disagree with this too (trifecta!). Scanners can focus on amps exclusively, and disters have to build some other structures (at least 2 factories, for starters), so having dists cost a little less CU than amps seems good to me. Keep in mind also that disting is actually not a good strategy: the highest finishing rank for a planet with 150+ dists in the last 4 rounds is AgnitS with 231 dists at rank 126 in round 82. Most distwhores don't even break into the top 200. I see no reason to make it even worse, other than by helping both disters and scanners to sleep at night.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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2 Oct 2019, 05:36
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#9
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Hole in the ground
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I disagree with this too (trifecta!). Scanners can focus on amps exclusively, and disters have to build some other structures (at least 2 factories, for starters), so having dists cost a little less CU than amps seems good to me. Keep in mind also that disting is actually not a good strategy: the highest finishing rank for a planet with 150+ dists in the last 4 rounds is AgnitS with 231 dists at rank 126 in round 82. Most distwhores don't even break into the top 200. I see no reason to make it even worse, other than by helping both disters and scanners to sleep at night.
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Agreed
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2 Oct 2019, 20:38
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I disagree with this too (trifecta!). Scanners can focus on amps exclusively, and disters have to build some other structures (at least 2 factories, for starters), so having dists cost a little less CU than amps seems good to me. Keep in mind also that disting is actually not a good strategy: the highest finishing rank for a planet with 150+ dists in the last 4 rounds is AgnitS with 231 dists at rank 126 in round 82. Most distwhores don't even break into the top 200. I see no reason to make it even worse, other than by helping both disters and scanners to sleep at night.
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Why scanners shouldnt play?
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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3 Oct 2019, 06:01
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#11
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speed demon
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 343
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Actually mz suggestion of changing cu for both could be nice solution to all
Amps cu 1500
Dist cu 1100
Would mean high amp rarely max out at 300 and make playing unscannable a possibility again
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Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 28 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Round 85 - Rank 3 - QQ (Etd)
Round 89 - Rank 2 - VGN (Zik)
Round 91 - Rank 9 - VGN (Zik)
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3 Oct 2019, 12:02
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#12
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Amps at 1000 CU (max 10 hours of sleep for Ter/Tot) and dists at 800 or 900 (9 hours of sleep for Ter/Tot) seems fine to me. Making it much higher means the costs of amps and dists go down, which I'm not sure we need? *shrug*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
Why scanners shouldnt play?
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Scanners give up on FCs and refineries, so they play with a ~50% value handicap (48% at 2000 roids, 60 FCs and 100 refineries, worsening the fewer roids you have). Distwhores have the same handicap, but in theory they make up for it by being unscannable and thus being extremely fat (in practice dists don't compensate enough, and that's why they usually end outside of the top 200).
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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4 Oct 2019, 09:53
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#13
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Hole in the ground
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caj
Amps cu 1500
Dist cu 1100
Would mean high amp rarely max out at 300 and make playing unscannable a possibility again
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I don't think "rarely" comes into it with those numbers.
Scanners already rarely reach 300 amps - check the Misc Stats. Or, for that matter, the rest of this thread.
Amps are already quite high CU at 800 - your suggestion makes them by far the most time-intensive. It would make distorters super costly too, making that unviable.
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4 Oct 2019, 14:32
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Amps at 1000 CU (max 10 hours of sleep for Ter/Tot) and dists at 800 or 900 (9 hours of sleep for Ter/Tot) seems fine to me. Making it much higher means the costs of amps and dists go down, which I'm not sure we need? *shrug*
Scanners give up on FCs and refineries, so they play with a ~50% value handicap (48% at 2000 roids, 60 FCs and 100 refineries, worsening the fewer roids you have). Distwhores have the same handicap, but in theory they make up for it by being unscannable and thus being extremely fat (in practice dists don't compensate enough, and that's why they usually end outside of the top 200).
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Indeed. So make amps cheaper
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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4 Oct 2019, 16:32
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#15
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit
Amps are already quite high CU at 800 - your suggestion makes them by far the most time-intensive. It would make distorters super costly too, making that unviable.
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It would make both cheaper. The more time they take to build, the fewer you build in a round, and the less resources they end up costing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
Indeed. So make amps cheaper
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Uh... Yeah, I agree. Weird that I didn't think of that when I was making your point for you!
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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4 Oct 2019, 19:06
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#16
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Hole in the ground
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
It would make both cheaper. The more time they take to build, the fewer you build in a round, and the less resources they end up costing.
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Cheaper in M/C/E, but time is also a resource.
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5 Oct 2019, 03:51
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Given that massing dists is almost always a bad idea...
Why not make Amps/Dists only a game of cat-and-mouse for incoming scans, and make all other scans unaffected by dists? You get rid of the need for scanners (high amp scanners, that is - you'll still want someone to rush research). People will still invest in dists in order to fake attack, and the same for Amps to deter/spot said fake attacks.
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5 Oct 2019, 14:41
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 297
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Given that massing dists is almost always a bad idea...
Why not make Amps/Dists only a game of cat-and-mouse for incoming scans, and make all other scans unaffected by dists? You get rid of the need for scanners (high amp scanners, that is - you'll still want someone to rush research). People will still invest in dists in order to fake attack, and the same for Amps to deter/spot said fake attacks.
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awesome idea.
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5 Oct 2019, 19:49
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#19
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit
Cheaper in M/C/E, but time is also a resource.
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Doesn't matter. If you doubled the CU cost of amps and dists, no one who was previously scannable becomes unscannable and no one who was previously unscannable becomes scannable, modulo rounding issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Given that massing dists is almost always a bad idea...
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I for one like that disting is possible, even if it's bad. I do agree that it's unfortunate that dedicated scanners are practically necessary, but it's worth keeping in mind that many scanners really do enjoy their task.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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5 Oct 2019, 22:03
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#20
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Hole in the ground
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
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Re: Increase CU on wave amp back to 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Doesn't matter. If you doubled the CU cost of amps and dists, no one who was previously scannable becomes unscannable and no one who was previously unscannable becomes scannable, modulo rounding issues.
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I see your point, but it still unbalances it when e.g. 3 factories = 1 amp instead of 2 amps. That may be desirable, but it will have an effect because other non-dist structures will be relatively cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I for one like that disting is possible, even if it's bad. I do agree that it's unfortunate that dedicated scanners are practically necessary, but it's worth keeping in mind that many scanners really do enjoy their task.
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No arguments here. I think being unscannable should be possible (if challenging)
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