Planetarion Forums - We Want You

Chef! · 3 Dec 2006, 16:11

We at the PATeam need you to help us out with a few things. As has been recently discussed the portal is lacking in content in the columns department. We really need people to write interesting (and funny) columns about all manner of Planetarion related news, gossip and alliances. After recently talking to Kal i have been informed that i can reward columnists with a free credit if they submit 4 columns (of a decent standard) per round! If you would be interested in getting involved by writing for the portal then send a sample article to [email protected] of the kind of thing you would like to write for the portal, or pop into #portal on irc.netgamers.org and have a chat with me about it!

As well as this we are also looking to have an official Planetarion Round 20 skin! The skin template is available from www.planetarion.com/template.zip for you to download and use as a base. We currently have a couple of people offering graphics for round 20, however we would like to open this opportunity up to the whole community! If you feel you have what it takes to make a fantastic, professional looking skin for round 20 then submit your design to [email protected] or (as above) pop in to #portal and drop me a PM!

Kal · 3 Dec 2006, 16:25

Its worth noting that if you read the CSS file in the template that the skins are now much more flexible than they were in previous rounds. Many crazy things are now possible with positioning menu items e.g. having a split menu on either side of the main content area. It is also possible to entirly change the header region for each page to have really wacky layouts.

Jester · 3 Dec 2006, 17:08

May I have a column in which I continually complain about how shit PAteam is?

Kal · 3 Dec 2006, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

May I have a column in which I continually complain about how shit PAteam is?

potentially, if its in a constructive and useful manner.

The Real Arfy · 3 Dec 2006, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

May I have a column in which I continually complain about how shit PAteam is?

No, things only get tweaked, not added.

The Real Arfy · 3 Dec 2006, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

Its worth noting that if you read the CSS file in the template that the skins are now much more flexible than they were in previous rounds. Many crazy things are now possible with positioning menu items e.g. having a split menu on either side of the main content area. It is also possible to entirly change the header region for each page to have really wacky layouts.

Once my assignments are over, I will be doing this. Do we have to use images still? I would like to make a skin that requires no imagery.

Kal · 3 Dec 2006, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Arfy

Once my assignments are over, I will be doing this. Do we have to use images still? I would like to make a skin that requires no imagery.

They still have to be image based, but you can make the images very simple and hence small.

Jester · 4 Dec 2006, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

potentially, if its in a constructive and useful manner.

Allow me to rephrase then: what advantage do I get for opting into your shitty portal instead of just starting my own Planetarion blog?

I'm completely serious, btw. About 2 years ago we were discussing making the manual a wiki, and you lot said that 'letting anyone edit it' would never work. I started PAwiki, and it was almost immediately plugged off the portal, linked from sandmans (which is viewed a hell of a lot more by PA players than the portal is) and even attempted coopted as an 'official' Planetarion service.

I'm wondering why you are expressing the same standpoint, that only PAteam approved content is appropriate when it's so easy to set up an outside resource that taken as seriously, if not moreso, than the pet projects of PAteam.

Barrow|Pony · 4 Dec 2006, 16:22

You get a free credit and incredible prestige.

The Real Arfy · 4 Dec 2006, 23:23

Quick comment about the skinning. The only thing that has changed is that there is now a different way for you to be unable to create anything 'wacky'.

Kal · 5 Dec 2006, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Arfy

Quick comment about the skinning. The only thing that has changed is that there is now a different way for you to be unable to create anything 'wacky'.

Not at all, if you read the CSS, the images can be positioned anywhere around the main content area, the menus can also be positioned so they stay on the screen when you scroll up and down the main content area. Lots of creative solutions are now possible. But there is a limit to what can be done withotu having to change the html for each page.

The Real Arfy · 5 Dec 2006, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

Not at all, if you read the CSS, the images can be positioned anywhere around the main content area, the menus can also be positioned so they stay on the screen when you scroll up and down the main content area. Lots of creative solutions are now possible. But there is a limit to what can be done withotu having to change the html for each page.

My point was that the HTML is still as good as static. Only people with enough knowledge of hacking around poor code will be able to actually make use of it in a way different to before, and its simply not worth the effort.

P.S. Changing the HTML on every page would take two, maybe three hours to do after the first page is valid.

Leshy · 5 Dec 2006, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

Its worth noting that if you read the CSS file in the template that demons will come out of your wallpaper at night. If you also read the HTML file in the template, they will additionally devour you.

Is it really that hard to write/provide some readable and non-redundant CSS and HTML?

Because the files currently in the template are ridiculously large and bloated, and the HTML is an absolute joke. How hard is it to sit down for half an hour and make sure that attribute values are encased by either single or double quotes, that the HTML output is lowercase and perhaps even has some linebreaks in logical places? I mean, for the love of all that you consider holy:

Code:

<DIV class=menu_preferences><A
href="preferences.pl?rn=11366903">Preferences</A></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_logout><A
href="logout.pl?rn=14606282">Logout</A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_grp7 id=menu_grp>
<DIV class=menu_support><A
href="support.pl?rn=13033794"
target=_support>Support</A></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_manual><A
href="manual.php?rn=13033794"
target=_manual>Manual</A></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_stats><A
href="manual.php?rn=13033794&amp;page=stats"
target=_stats>Stats</A></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_portal><A href="http://www.planetarion.com/"
target=_portal>Portal</A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_bottom></DIV>
<DIV class=menu_beta_forum><A

Seriously, what.

PS - You're also using ids and classes the wrong way around

Leshy · 5 Dec 2006, 18:59

For anyone wanting to fiddle with the layouts, but getting stumped by the horrible CSS and HTML files provided, grab this ZIP file in addition to the original one, as this one doesn't contain any images.

It contains improved versions of both the original CSS and HTML files. It's all the same stuff as in the original files, except both files are now actually legible so you can see what's going on. The CSS file has additionally been optimized to remove unnecessary code.

You know, since assigning the display: block; property to about thirty individual block elements isn't exactly useful and such. Don't even get me started on the HTML.

The Real Arfy · 5 Dec 2006, 19:41

Nice one, Leshy.

Although I'd still like to see it done properly (of course this is down to PA team coders). Hell, I'd whip one up after term but thats slightly late I guess.

Leshy · 5 Dec 2006, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Arfy

Although I'd still like to see it done properly (of course this is down to PA team coders). Hell, I'd whip one up after term but thats slightly late I guess.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

I've argued for better HTML to be implemented for ages, but it's never ever happened. Not under Spinner, not under any of the new PA Team. The implementation of divs in the current HTML code is a step forward, but it's still a pretty halfway job; there's still loads of style within the HTML file that needs to be moved to external CSS in order to get a properly editable layout.

The Real Arfy · 5 Dec 2006, 20:44

Oh, and if you take the advice and get it changed, for ****s sake tell us before I finish hacking through this piece of ****

Kal · 6 Dec 2006, 23:09

As Leshy says the current code is a step forward, and becuase of the nature of the pax code Spinner originally created its far from easy to fix all the issues. So its not going to be fixed in the near future. It is however Cin we have to thank for the improvements to date.

Leshy · 7 Dec 2006, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

As Leshy says the current code is a step forward, and becuase of the nature of the pax code Spinner originally created its far from easy to fix all the issues.

I have little knowledge of how Perl works, but if you can implement the changes that you have implemented, I see little reason why the rest should remain in its current state. I can't really imagine that it's hideously complicated in just about any scripting language to alter something basic like static HTML output.

It's probably a fairly tedious and boring routine, but I can't imagine it being difficult.

SpaceMonkey · 7 Dec 2006, 07:13

Leshy, I might be talking out of my arse but don't you need a display: block; to make IE (6 at least) expand the anchor to fill parent element rather than stick with the text, which is normally offset off the screen?

The Real Arfy · 7 Dec 2006, 11:43

I didn't think so.

I think what Leshy may be getting at is that instead of:

Code:

.menu_overview a { display: block; }
.menu_news a { display: block; }
.menu_message a { display: block; }

You could just use something along the lines of

Code:

#menu a { display: block; }

Or at the very least

Code:

.menu_overview a, .menu_news a, .menu_message a { display: block; }

Leshy · 7 Dec 2006, 14:59

What Arfy said. Additionally, the original CSS file had, in addition to a whole bunch of links set to display as block elements, also a whole bunch of divs set to display as block elements - which they already are by default.

Right, I've decided to fiddle around with a somewhat new layout, and have come up with something that is definitely different from the standard layout. It involves a lot of ****ing about with the document flow and abusing positioning in all kinds of hilarious ways, and as such MSIE doesn't know what the ****, so it's horribly broken there (only tested with MSIE6, but I doubt 7 will fare much better). It's not entirely perfect and can definitely be improved upon, but it's mostly a testcase.

Opera 9 has absolutely no issues with it and displays it perfectly; Firefox 2 can also display the page equally well, with the caveat that it requires a proper doctype in the HTML - it breaks the dropdown menu otherwise. Also, while Opera's full-screen zoom works fine, using larger than default text in Firefox isn't really recommended either.

Also, don't mind the horrible quality of the icons at the top, I've thrown them together quickly to display the idea and show that you can indeed already do some funky things with the current layout that were completely impossible with the previous one.

So, without further ado: http://www.leshy.net/dev/pa-layout/overview.html

Edit: Just tested MSIE7 - surprisingly a lot better than MSIE6, but still absolutely no dice.

gzambo · 7 Dec 2006, 15:01

very nice leshy ,
looks good in firefox 2

The Real Arfy · 7 Dec 2006, 18:35

Awesome work. I'm finished with my (again, FF/maybe-Opera) layout and I'm just doing the icons (which I suck at

)

Kal · 7 Dec 2006, 22:00

I quite like the skin in IE7 (though I'm not sure if it looks how its meant to or not.)

Heartless · 8 Dec 2006, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

I quite like the skin in IE7 (though I'm not sure if it looks how its meant to or not.)

Shut the **** up and test it in different browser you wannabe-marketing-game-designer.

Appocomaster · 8 Dec 2006, 11:02

Firstly, I'd like to thank Leshy for a cool skin <3 and resorting the released template file!

I have to apoligise for the state of it - Cin spent a couple of weeks redoing all the current skins and adjusting the code to make everything (more) css friendly, and due to a communication error didn't realise the basic template he made was going to be released to everyone - he knows how bad it is. I'm sure I would too if I understood css

It does mean there's a whole lot more flexibility in where to put everything, as has been demonstrated.