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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 13:18   #51
[DDK]gm
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

how many alliances have anyone in #aliances, as far as i know ct, nox and tof dont. angrydudck i think may have access but he hasnt been active since a few rounds.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 13:22   #52
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
how many alliances have anyone in #aliances, as far as i know ct, nox and tof dont. angrydudck i think may have access but he hasnt been active since a few rounds.
Most have access to the alliances forum, and tbh most of the big names in alliances had their reps ok it, And most of the smaller names choose not to put their point over
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 13:33   #53
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And most of the smaller names choose not to put their point over
Blame them for that choice then.
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Unread 9 Mar 2008, 23:42   #54
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
THREE new alliances have sprung up, so you can stick your 'There arent enough people willing to lead' argument.
Just because they started doesn't mean they automatically count for a succesfull start of a new alliance (apart from willingness i also mentioned them having to be decent). In r25, according to AR, we've seen at least 3 new alliances (perhaps semi including some returning ones like insomnia and SPQR), and boy, have they been succesfull or established....

Generally you'll still need more than just a few HC to run a alliance (DC/BC/scanner team etc), it has been very hard for any (non-top) alliance to get a decent schedule filled with this kind of support. It's mostly the same pool of ppl doing the work round after round, bringing in more alliances isn't going to change anything and can only make it worse as more alliances need to fill the same schedule with the same ppl.

As for the 75 member limit thing, last round the entire top 5 was around or over that amount. The only alliance actually showing their total count was xVx by creating a second tag to place those planets in. I don't really see what would change in that regard by increasing the alliance limit, apart from making the difference in score more obvious and clear to see for everyone (assuming they'd all tag up).
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 00:06   #55
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
As for the 75 member limit thing, last round the entire top 5 was around or over that amount. The only alliance actually showing their total count was xVx by creating a second tag to place those planets in. I don't really see what would change in that regard by increasing the alliance limit, apart from making the difference in score more obvious and clear to see for everyone (assuming they'd all tag up).
I'm sorry, I've been arguing with you under the pretense you know what you're talking about. You clearly dont.

Top 5 last round:

1. NewDawn - over 60 for sure, exact numbers I don't know
2. CT - Could have had over 60, but then they did merge with ToF before the reduced memberlimit was announced. ToF are reforming, so there goes their 'suuport'
3. Urwins - lol. Don't be ridiculous, Urwins had our scanners intag even.
4. xVx - Yeah, ok.
5. Ascendancy - Nope. Not a jot above 60.

So out of those 5, 3 could have had over 75, but only 2 of them will carry their memberbase into next round.

So less than half of the top 5 from last round have a memberbase of 75~ or more for this round. So where you get your figures from is beyond me. The alliances below the top 5 more of less didn't even have 60!

So you think it's fair to say that people with lower memberbases shouldn't be given a chance to succeed, just because there were 3 alliances who had more members than they should have? Get a grip.

Quote:
Generally you'll still need more than just a few HC to run a alliance (DC/BC/scanner team etc), it has been very hard for any (non-top) alliance to get a decent schedule filled with this kind of support. It's mostly the same pool of ppl doing the work round after round, bringing in more alliances isn't going to change anything and can only make it worse as more alliances need to fill the same schedule with the same ppl.
It has been very hard you're right. I know how to solve this! Let's make it harder!!!

Quote:
Just because they started doesn't mean they automatically count for a succesfull start of a new alliance (apart from willingness i also mentioned them having to be decent). In r25, according to AR, we've seen at least 3 new alliances (perhaps semi including some returning ones like insomnia and SPQR), and boy, have they been succesfull or established....
My "3" were alliances likely to enter the top 10. If you base your entire understanding of Planetarion on the AR forum then no wonder you don't know what's going on.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 00:17   #56
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Sebos pls get a clue before u claim my alliance got above 60 members

we did not want any deadweight(except me) something that made it hard recruiting as alot of ppl are allready in established alliances, and other players tend to pick alliances so they can fence the round with their gal

as allready posted on AD, we got less then 40, and thats including scanners...

as for Wandows claim of every alliance in top5 having over 75 members... thats BS, Urwins did not(according to hc) CT did not, doubt they would have kept my shit planet in tag then . asc had a planet or two above 70?

i doubt we will see many alliances filling the limit realy...
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 01:25   #57
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
5. Ascendancy - Nope. Not a jot above 60.
Actually we had somewhere betwe 70-75 members. I posted an exact breakdown somewhere on AD.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 02:13   #58
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Actually we had somewhere betwe 70-75 members. I posted an exact breakdown somewhere on AD.
Fair enough, I was going on your 'active' numbers though, not all of the "I'm in Asc, and I'm playing... but not actively" members you guys have.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 02:47   #59
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

so how many alliance will be able to recruit to 75? atm ct and nox are below 40, i guess tof will be about 45, rock - 50....

shouldn’t the alliance limit be 50 instead of 75?

more alliances in pa is good for the game although it puts a strain on the officers that basically keep pa alive by dc'ing every night and setting up attacks, especially if they all go to join an "officers alliance"
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 03:13   #60
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

60 was fine, 75 is lame.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 03:16   #61
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I don't think it's particularly healthy that alliances either aim for or limit themselves to any particular number of members. It doesn't foster natural community growth and subdivision which is the essence of this game. As such I'd like to the concept of ingame alliance rankings based on score totally abolished in order for alliances to be broken free from the tedious game of score accumulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Fair enough, I was going on your 'active' numbers though, not all of the "I'm in Asc, and I'm playing... but not actively" members you guys have.
What does active mean? Going by previous highest activity levels of ascendancy members last round as close to the "active" designator I'd doubt more than ten people played actively. I'd just stick with how many people we had signup planets ingame and do something, anything with them (that clause is actually necessary, we had 2/3 people signup and never do anything).
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 03:18   #62
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

gm - maybe 3. xVx and NewDawn for sure, and VGN possibly. Nobody else has close to that.

So yeah, this decision is only good for a MAXIMUM of 3 alliances.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 03:21   #63
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't think it's particularly healthy that alliances either aim for or limit themselves to any particular number of members. It doesn't foster natural community growth and subdivision which is the essence of this game. As such I'd like to the concept of ingame alliance rankings based on score totally abolished in order for alliances to be broken free from the tedious game of score accumulation.

What does active mean? Going by previous highest activity levels of ascendancy members last round as close to the "active" designator I'd doubt more than ten people played actively. I'd just stick with how many people we had signup planets ingame and do something, anything with them (that clause is actually necessary, we had 2/3 people signup and never do anything).
'Active' enough to be put in the tag. Assuming you put your best players forth, and still had an average way off of the winning alliance, anyone outside of the tag must have been around or below the top 10 alliance average.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 03:50   #64
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

At the end of the round we had stoom intag. Total score 800k. Draw your own conclusions.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 06:12   #65
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I was being generous. I'm nice like that.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 11:19   #66
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I was really inactive to be fair
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 13:42   #67
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
I'm sorry, I've been arguing with you under the pretense you know what you're talking about. You clearly dont.

Top 5 last round:

1. NewDawn - over 60 for sure, exact numbers I don't know
2. CT - Could have had over 60, but then they did merge with ToF before the reduced memberlimit was announced. ToF are reforming, so there goes their 'suuport'
3. Urwins - lol. Don't be ridiculous, Urwins had our scanners intag even.
4. xVx - Yeah, ok.
5. Ascendancy - Nope. Not a jot above 60.
Banned has already confirmed that Asc had 70/75 members.

And during our NAP with them last round, Urwins gave me a list of co-ordinates containing 72 of their members.

So it's fair to say that (on this occasion) Wandows *does* know what he's talking about.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 14:09   #68
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Banned has already confirmed that Asc had 70/75 members.

And during our NAP with them last round, Urwins gave me a list of co-ordinates containing 72 of their members.

So it's fair to say that (on this occasion) Wandows *does* know what he's talking about.
First of all, since when has anything in the range of 70 to 75 (which covers both the Asc and Urwins suggested numbers) been in excess of aforementioned upper limit? Which is what Wandows original claim implied.

There may well have been 72 members in Urwins at -some- point, but there was even enough room to take in some of the disbanded InSomnia players when that happened, and, even after the mid-round intake of players, Urwins still ended the round with all our scanners in tag and only just making 60. If the scanners are intag, how many of those '72 planets' do you think were actually playing?

There were several people who had planets, but like in Asc - weren't actually playing. Gabz0r had a planet, for example, but he rarely logged in. It was more a 'token gesture' I believe. It's a case of Wandows being anal and comparing the likes of 72 'planets' to NewDawn/xVx's 75+ players.

It's not always as black and white as the numbers suggest, so please - learn to assess greyscale.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 15:12   #69
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I don't get why "inactive" "not really playing" "whatever" members shouldn't be allowed in tag. Why aren't we trying to get them back to playing rather than excluding them?
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 16:01   #70
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

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Originally Posted by Banned
I don't get why "inactive" "not really playing" "whatever" members shouldn't be allowed in tag. Why aren't we trying to get them back to playing rather than excluding them?
It was never about them not being allowed in the tag - it's about the pressure put on HCs to find active players to fill their tags so they believe they have a chance to compete.

The number of inactives ascociated with alliances last round that weren't kept in tags is what you're referring to whereby people aren't excluded based on activity. With the support planet rule in effect though, that makes it less encouraging for HCs to accept somebody that isn't going to be playing even half-arsed, as they can get penalised for keeping them out of tag (but still contributing in whatever fashion) by PA, or lose out to a tag full of actives by keeping them intag.

Either remove alliance limits altogether, or keep things as they were last round.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 17:00   #71
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
First of all, since when has anything in the range of 70 to 75 (which covers both the Asc and Urwins suggested numbers) been in excess of aforementioned upper limit? Which is what Wandows original claim implied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
As for the 75 member limit thing, last round the entire top 5 was around or over that amount.
"Around or over" - seems pretty much on the button to me.

But yes, you're absolutely right in saying that they might not have all been active. Then again - a lot of our players weren't active either. And we had all of our scanners in tag. And we finished the round with 58 players (IIRC). That's probably why we came 6th.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 22:52   #72
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

So essentially we're seeing changes that:

- exclude players from the game because of the reintroduction of the support planet rule
- increase the power of alliances by giving them a larger tag size and thus a larger pool of defence
- reduce the influence of galaxies (which lets face it, is most players' best hope of being involved in any kind of metagame)
- helps defence through extra benefits (when defence should be an art form)
- reintroduces a rule so wonderfully subjective and absurd when from last round, it seems there was no problem in any case

These moves are going to result in more negative play from alliances, which is pretty terrible for everyone all round.

On what basis were these decisions made? I can't see any reason how they are collectively defensible.
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Unread 10 Mar 2008, 23:18   #73
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

couldnt agree more, i have raised my concerns with appocomaster and he seems to agree on the alliance limit but says CIN has to be convinced on it, he seems to have done a runner after announcing the new rules so it looks like we are stuck with it..... any pa clones out there thats any good? :P
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 01:08   #74
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

is there anywhere to sign for keeping the alliance limit as it was in r25 ?
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 08:36   #75
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

ehm yea lets start the signing! think that Cin dude must pay attention to ppl`s arguments about new changes as well before introducing them to game.. otherwise there just might b a time where most of us dont play anymore.
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 10:00   #76
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

why not just make it a free round if you're going to put the limit that high. That way even the smaller alliances, get their numbers up (not with necessarily highly scored players). Makes the universe bigger if we can attract more players. Seems like all the problems associated with next round, none of which i care to comment on, call for something from the PA team in return. Seems all they've done this round is take away.
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 11:04   #77
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
couldnt agree more, i have raised my concerns with appocomaster and he seems to agree on the alliance limit but says CIN has to be convinced on it, he seems to have done a runner after announcing the new rules so it looks like we are stuck with it..... any pa clones out there thats any good? :P
The round changes have made me interested in writing one :\
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 12:09   #78
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
The round changes have made me interested in writing one :\
I'll help, as long as I don't have to do anything.
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 12:12   #79
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I'd offer moral support but I have no morals
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Unread 11 Mar 2008, 13:18   #80
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I realy dislike the 4 man BP

a 5 man bp a goods ize, we had for some rnds now.

allthough I know 2 peeps for late joiners, its not the right thing to do here.

Who to skipp from my bp now
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Unread 12 Mar 2008, 23:31   #81
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

so did CH answer any concerns raised in this thread? it was more of a "we dont care what the pa players say"
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Unread 13 Mar 2008, 00:41   #82
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
so did CH answer any concerns raised in this thread? it was more of a "we dont care what the pa players say"
(pm to Cin)
Quote:
Could you please lower memberlimit again? I'm an HC of one of 3 new proper alliances playing, and I have to say - recruiting is a right bitch! We started up under the pretense we could get 60 members if we worked hard at it, but now you're saying the upper limit it 75?

Please reduce the member limit again, or you're only favouring 3 alliances - NewDawn, Jenova and xVx. NOBODY else has enough to fill a 75 limit tag.

TGV and ROCK have been forced to sit this one out as they can't compete with their lower memberbases. 50 has a better shot at doing well in a 60-man-alliance universe, but with the new limits that's 33% off the mark already!

Anyway, laterz mate.
(response)
Quote:
It's nice to see that ppl blame me for it, but it isn't exactly the truth though anyway.
If you started your alliance with the goal of getting to 60 members, and most of probably before tickstart, there shouldn't be that much of an issue to get to 75. A very large portion of the players aren't in an "real" alliance, and each round we got quite a few of the asking in one way or another how to get into one.

I can't exactly say i find it fair that they should be excluded from alliances just because they are "less experienced" than other and because the alliances are only interested in poaching members from others.

You say you're one of the "3 new alliances", but you don't really seem to take into account that at least 3 alliances are sitting this round out in one way or another. That does mean that their members are looking for a new home an with the fact several alliance had above or close to 75 members already it would be rather odd if you couldn't crab at least some of those. There is enough ppl to fill up at least 10+ alliances, and i doubt that happens, so if you put some effort into find the ppl out there still missing an alliance i'm sure you can do quite well.
Apparently, we have to recruit whoever Cin says we have to recruit. Which in a way is a relief, I thought I'd have to find the members myself

When can I get my updated memberlist btw? Or will it be like... a surprise, or something... for when ticks start?
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Unread 13 Mar 2008, 21:42   #83
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Why is it so important for you to recruit up to the limit? I seem to recall a certain alliance in the past (VS) who did extremely well while having a far from filled tag when the round started. You can't seriously believe that 3 new starting/returning alliances all get the same shot at competing for a round win. Building up a new alliance might actually take more than one round you know. If you play well next round the extra players you so desperately want will come to you anyway.
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Unread 13 Mar 2008, 23:36   #84
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

But then alliances only last up to 3 rounds these days. If you don't win your first round, there's a good chance you won't get another shot!
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Unread 14 Mar 2008, 00:54   #85
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Alliances with that attitude get exactly what they deserve. Either you want to compete in the game you're given or you don't. There should be no limit and it should be up to the universe to decide the final ranks. Who knows, maybe 2 alliances might even be brave enough to declare a joint victory or something totally unorthodox like that. Ooooh, controversy.
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Unread 14 Mar 2008, 18:49   #86
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I would rather no limit at all and only the top 50 planets in the alliance get counted in the alliance score
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Unread 14 Mar 2008, 18:54   #87
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Yeah that sounds good ^^
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Unread 15 Mar 2008, 11:45   #88
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

is there a log for last CH ? I suggest putting a link on the portal in the CH menu... or is is too crazy ?
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Unread 15 Mar 2008, 11:58   #89
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Alliances with that attitude get exactly what they deserve. Either you want to compete in the game you're given or you don't. There should be no limit and it should be up to the universe to decide the final ranks. Who knows, maybe 2 alliances might even be brave enough to declare a joint victory or something totally unorthodox like that. Ooooh, controversy.
You mean, like it was before?!
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Unread 15 Mar 2008, 14:02   #90
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Why not? Can't be any worse than filling up tags with 10 officers and 50 automatons, which is getting just a little old. Or 10 officers and 65 automatons as it will be now apparently.
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Unread 15 Mar 2008, 17:38   #91
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Why not? Can't be any worse than filling up tags with 10 officers and 50 automatons, which is getting just a little old. Or 10 officers and 65 automatons as it will be now apparently.
Yeah I agree with you. I was trying to show that it worked before, so it can still work. And I even agree more with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
There should be no limit and it should be up to the universe to decide the final ranks.
"Here you go guys, these are the rules and have fun. If you all want to be in the same tag, you can."

I think there will always be groups that want to be together under their own tag and win with their group, so alliances will always be around. Not forced ones because of the tag limit, but alliances because people want their own alliance and want to fight other people to show they are best, which is what this game is about right?
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Unread 16 Mar 2008, 11:58   #92
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

approves of the 75 member limit...


NO:
CT
NoX
ToF
Orbit
Rock
ND
Denial
xVx
jenova

Yes:


yes/no??
Vgn



I think its safe to say the alliances have been ignored.
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Unread 16 Mar 2008, 12:02   #93
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

i think you forgot jenova there matey
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Unread 16 Mar 2008, 12:04   #94
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladel
forgot jenova
Yeah, what else is new.
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Unread 16 Mar 2008, 12:18   #95
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

yeah when i went to the jenova public channel it was empty
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Unread 16 Mar 2008, 13:27   #96
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Well raising the alliance limit should make it more exciting for us at the start of the round. Wonder how many of our descent players will be poached by big allies. i suppose this will be a real test for us and see how loyal our playercore really is.

i was confident we would be able to fill the tag up easy allthough it would have been with a bottom 15 that would not get alot of score. but if big allies start poaching our members we're prettty much screwed. but i doubt it will get that far, 80% sure most of our playercore will stick with us tho.
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Unread 17 Mar 2008, 11:02   #97
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

I might be hopping in and off the subject here, but has there been any pointers regarding the upcoming private galaxy round? I've been planning on my devious plots of my inevitable comeback but I really am not very interested in pulling off a mostly random galaxy of yet-the-same-exiled planet coming back again.
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Unread 17 Mar 2008, 17:03   #98
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Re: Round 26 Announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
I think its safe to say the alliances have been ignored.
Thankfully.
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Unread 17 Mar 2008, 17:49   #99
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Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Round 26 Announcement

cant we just remove alliances from ingame?
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[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 17 Mar 2008, 18:21   #100
[DDK]gm
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[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future
Re: Round 26 Announcement

yeah that would solve a lot of problems and make the game better so... no :P
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