[Declined] PDS as Structures.

[Hunk]

Hi all,
first post on the suggestions forum, etc.
Anyway, I've been thinking about this for a while; what if we could build structures that acted as PDS? I'd quite like to see PDS back, but completely agree with the arguement that it encourages bashing, but if it was a structure as opposed to ship, then it would be a lot harder to kill. The Pros and Cons as I see them are as follows:

PROS
* Harder to wipe-out with random roiding fleet.
* Can still be taken out with a dedicated effort of including structure killers.
* Gives structure killers a bit more of a worthwhile target rather than factories (I realise some people on this board are against structure killers, I'm not keen myself, but they're here to stay so they might as well have something to do).
* Will give attack victims some salvage even if they have dodged there fleets.
* Makes Surface scans much more useful, as they serve little purpose atm.
* Would be more of an advantage to smaller planets as they wouldn't be worth building for big planets with lots of structures.

CONS
* Stats/coding might be tricky to balance/get right.
* Might be a disadvantage to some races more than other (e.g. Xan Pulsar/Dagger/Sentinal combo at a disadvantage because it can't easily include Vorcean)

As for the stats themselves, obviously it would have to have the same armour value as other buildings to keep it simple. I'd imagine structure killers would be weighted to take them out in preference to other buildings, as seems to be the case with factories now.
Since the game is meant to favour attacking over defence, it would seem to make sense to have them fire at initiative 20 so that if the attacker sent enough structure killers he could take them out.
How is this different from the attacker sending enough ships to destroy orbital PDS? Well I think the big difference is that in this case the ships taking out the PDS can't take out anything else, which should lead to some interesting tactical desicions regarding fleet build ratios, etc.
I haven't really considered the damage points they would do, that would be more for the person who does the ship stats to decide.
So the last issue is which ship class would they target? I expect there would have to be at four types, one for FR, DE, CR & BS, so they could target the structure killers (assuming some PDS survive the attack). If they didn't target FI/CO, then that would be a good balance to the disadvantage of not being able to include structure killers in pure FI/CO fleets.

Finally, some name suggestions...
Defence Laser Bunker (anti-FR)
Armoured Missile Silo (anti-DE)
Ion Cannon Emplacement (anti-CR)
Rail-Cannon Battery (anti-BS)

I look forward to hearing people's comments.

- Hunk.

[Gerbie]

This might even work for small planets that get loads of incomming all the time.

[Blixxard]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=181768

[Gerbie]

His post is better. I don't like the other thread.

[Hunk]

Unless I'm mistaken, the other thread was talking about structures that only targetted structure killers. I might not have been clear enough, but I was thinking of generally targetting the structure killer classes, not the actual ships.
To have PDS structures that targetted the structure killing ships before they did anything would make attacking harder, something that seems to be very unpopular.
As another PRO, it would make the 'Havoc' Covert-Op a bit more fun. Sending in a team of agents to disrupt the target planets defences before the attack seems kinda cool to me!
Thanks to everyone for their comments, btw.

- Hunk

[mist]

i'm not quite sure how you're addressing them being a bash trap?

-mist

[Cochese]

The problem with Xan being at a disadvantage is easily solved:

Make their structure-killer a Fighter (Frigate fleets are the lose, my friends)

[Hunk]

Structures are better bash-wise because, according to the manual, you can only destroy 20% of a planets structure at a time, whereas there'd be no such limit if the PDS were treated as ships.
Also large hostile fleets will be easier to block if they have a higher proportion of structure killers (i.e. less normal fighting ships to kill the defenders). Might add a new interesting dimension to gameplay?

- Hunk

[noah02]

Why didnt you just stick your idea in the other thread as part of the thread seeing it is along the sorta same line's.
As sorta a better idea over mine so ppl can read both and compare.

[Hunk]

I did check to see if there was a similar thread, but I missed it I'm afraid, otherwise I would have done.

- Hunk

[mist]

if there's going to be pds, you logically have to make it possible to destroy if it's firing. otherwise you'll end up with unroidable pds whores again

-mist

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by mist

if there's going to be pds, you logically have to make it possible to destroy if it's firing. otherwise you'll end up with unroidable pds whores again

-mist

I.m.o. the main thing is to make it not too strong so it's only a usefull asset if you have a small planet. 100 PDS structures should not be able to stop a 5 mln value fleet, but maybe a 200k value fleet or so.

[Hunk]

Yes, I think Gerbie makes the point nicely. It would be stupidly expensive for a planet to continue building PDS so they always had over 20% (and so the PDS was not destroyable by the structure killers before they fired), if they did they probably wouldn't have many ships/roids anyway.
Also if they did have over 20% of one PDS structure then just send a fleet based around whatever pod class they didn't target, in the same way you might send a fleet to take advantage of whatever ship type they haven't built. If they build an equal amount of each type then it'll be easier to destroy all the ones that pose a threat (although not certain).
I still think PDS structures will be a great help to small planets. If they want to buy a near immunity from one type or two of ship then let them (after all we're already allowed to buy immunity from covert ops), but they won't be able to do much else!

- Hunk

[mist]

if small planets are immune to attack they're effectivly removed from the game. this will make the universe even smaller. is that a good thing?

-mist

[Gerbie]

Immune. Why make them immune?

[Vencedor]

I will make a post when I have more time
I suggested something about PDS bak in rnd 10, but it was never even discussed...
Will make the post when I have time ... LOL, I'm making a post to say I'll be making a post... I hate it when people do that.

[demiGOD]

make PDS really really expensive so the production of PDS will be in a "controlled" way

[mist]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

Immune. Why make them immune?

if, as someone suggested, planets can make themselves unroidable (at reasonable cost) by a couple of ship classes they're logically going to choose the ones that their race is weak against.

hey presto, you have someone with no racial weaknesses. who's going to roid them?

-mist

[Vencedor]

Ok ... here is my idea I had about PDS that I think is quite good...
I suggested it ages aago... (I've updated this)


Ok, before I get into this, the PDS armour and fire power would be CRAP compared to ships... therefore the 'Priorities' (as discussed below) would be needed and would be hard to decide which to activate
PDS as it's own 'structures' ... Seperate to the current ones.
So the price would be in a way the same, each TYPE you build makes that TYPE cost more and more...
Now, after building a heap of PDS it would get very expensive..
Therefore this would involve a new structure, PDS Stations ...
Every 5 PDS Stations would decrease the price of PDS.
PDS Price Formula:
5 goes into %PDS Stations% X times.
Anti-Fighter: 1000 * (Anti-Fighter PDS / X)
Anti-Corvette: 4000 * (Anti-Corvette PDS / X)
Anti-Frigate: 2000 * (Anti-Frigate PDS / X)
Anti-Destroyer: 2000 * (Anti-Destroyer PDS / X)
Anti-Cruiser: 2000 * (Anti-Cruiser PDS / X)
Anti-Battleship: 6000 * (Anti-Battleship PDS / X)
Example...
If you had...
-110 Anti-Fighter PDS
-0 PDS Stations
5 goes into 0(PDS stations) = 0 times (X = 0)
Building 5 more would cost...
1000 * (110 / X) = 110,000
1000 * (111 / X) = 111,000
1000 * (112 / X) = 112,000
1000 * (113 / X) = 113,000
1000 * (114 / X) = 114,000
Total cost of 560,000

But, if you had the same PLUS 32 PDS Stations (built via Structures) it would cost...
-110 Anti-Fighter PDS
-32 PDS Stations
5 goes into 32(pds stations) = 6 times (X = 6)
Building 5 more would cost...
1000 * (110 / X) = 18,333
1000 * (111 / X) = 18,500
1000 * (112 / X) = 18,667
1000 * (113 / X) = 18,833
1000 * (114 / X) = 19,000
Total cost of 93,333

Also have 'Sheild Battery' in Structures and have them cost the same as all the other structures...
1 Sheild Battery defends ALL types of PDS at like .10% extra armour or something...
As for the PDS / ships fire first...
Have it random... that would be more realistic anyway... it'd suck 100% for battle calculators but hey, you get that
You would have 2 priorites (NOT in 'Engineers') that are for PDS ONLY...
2 priorities for EACH type of PDS but you can only activate 2 out of all of them
The priorites would be like...
Anti-fighter: Double armour, half firepower
Anti-fighter: Double firepower, half armour
Anti-Corvette: Double armour, half firepower ... etc

BUT, you could only select 2 of them...
so you may select ...
Anti-battleship: Double firepower, half armour
and Anti-fighter: Double armour, half firepower
or something.... I think this would work and be really good.

[mist]

while very nice, how does that address any of the issues raised here?
you make pds cheaper, and encourage people to build it against all types of ships, which seems to agrevate the problems rather than solving them?

-mist

[Vencedor]

But the PDS Stations are built via the normal Structures... meaning they'll get
very expensive and time consuming ...
Btw, there woulkd be no "maximum percentage of PDS killing" in an attack

And I'll give you an example of the stats of them (compared to this round)

Anti-Fighter
Class Struct
Target Fighter
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage(this is firepower right?) 4
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost1000*amount_of_pds_type

Anti-Corvette
Class Struct
Target Corvette
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage (this is firepower right?)5
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type

Anti-Frigate
Class Struct
Target Frigate
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage (this is firepower right?)20
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type

Anti-Destroyer
Class Struct
Target Destroyer
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage (this is firepower right?)30
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type

Anti-Cruiser
Class Struct
Target Cruiser
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage (this is firepower right?)40
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type

Anti-Battleship
Class Struct
Target Battleship
Fire Type Normal
Initiative 4
Armour 2
Armour / Cost (what is this please)
Damage (this is firepower right?)70
Damage / Cost (what is this please)
Metal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Crystal Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type
Eonium Cost 1000*amount_of_pds_type

[Banned]

"And did you stop and think that maybe infants need darkness? That maybe darkness is part of their natural development."

[Kal]

pds = bad - declined