Buddy-Code, possibly a good solution for Packs

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by heathred

the buddy sytem has potential if ppl are sad enough to abuse it then thats thier problem

Heh, if you think Cayl's attitude is over the top, I'd like to hear your view on people who actually think it's ok to win the game by scanning. Unfortunately PA is dominated by people like this.

Personally I'm as fiercely competitive a player, but there is such a thing as too high a cost to pay for winning surely. I am in very little doubt that should this be implemented it will be abused and that despite the protestations to the contrary, the abusers will not be caught or punished. And that is everyones problem.

[mist]

Originally Posted by heathred

the buddy sytem has potential if ppl are sad enough to abuse it then thats thier problem

so, if you get beaten to a pulp by cheaters, it's still their problem?

-mist

[Borg]

[quote=MotoX]

A HC of an alliance plays this game only for one reason and that is to win, no mater what!
Have this game ever seen a major alliance recruit newbie’s? NO! They only want the top players to join and the rest including the newbie’s, they are pushed into other directions.

“We are an Elite alliance and we are playing to win so we only want 1337 players”
This is soooo lame cos we all play on the same arena and you “Elite players” have always picked roids from newbies! (How can you sort out a 1337 players from a newbie the first month?)

There are still some alliances who do take on newbie’s (all glory to them) but the same alliances are still playing in the same universe as the Elite ones, dah….. So they need to supply defence witch effect the rest: conclusion: They lose more then they gain.

QUOTE]

I aint the HC of NoS, but I reckon I know what they think, YES we would like to be number 1 in alliance rankings...BUT....................... if that means we have to become backstabbing, devious, dishonourable then it isnt worth it. NoS is first and foremost a FAMILY of people who want to play the game for FUN, the game isnt real life, its a game ffs. But its a game we play to the best of our abilities, its a game where we welcome people both experienced and n00b to join in the fun.

Yes NoS is a 1337 alliance, we aint the biggest because we are so 1337, we take people that have the things we want, Honour, Reliability, willingness to die for a fellow alliance member (which never happens because as everybody is willing to do the same thing, defence is always found) and most importantly of all, we want people who will add their own unique distinctiveness to the collective family that is NoS

Well looks like NoS gets some of that glory you mentioned there m8, cuz we recruit from N00bies as well, and in r10.5 I know for fact that 2 n00bs did very well indeed. Dont forget, a n00b is only a n00b untill s/he learns what not to do, and NoS has a great family of players who teach n00bs in their ranks how not to be n00b.

[Nitros]

Originally Posted by Guran

I dislike the whole idea. Totally random all the way..

This system favours big alliances. With limit again at 100, this blows.

agreed

but if it does get implented:

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

My concern is that it will be abused to create private galaxies. A group of people can keep making/deleting free accounts with buddy codes until they get a few in the same galaxy then create a private galaxy. The concept is sound - but it would be far better to not place the buddies together initially, rather group them in a shuffle prior to ticks starting (with only paid planets being moved together). That way abuse would be prevented. Otherwise we'll end up with galaxies containing loads of free planets signed up in attempts to generate fully private galaxies.

Note: a shuffle is abosultely necessary with random signups anyway - and it MUST be a shuffle which combines only paid planets. Anything else leaves too many abuse possibilities open.

indeed a shuffle @ tick X
but with freebees, as spinner stated before about people helping new players etc etc

[alstaxis]

Originally Posted by MotoX

A HC of an alliance plays this game only for one reason and that is to win, no mater what!
Have this game ever seen a major alliance recruit newbie’s? NO! They only want the top players to join and the rest including the newbie’s, they are pushed into other directions.

Well just to let you know DEADLY always recruits NooBs
We will be in our 3rd round in rnd 11
rnd 10.5 we finished #14 which isn't too bad for a NooB alliance and we had a member base of 78, of course as most of our members were free we did encounter the problem of spies but all in all we have probably got at least 30 new players (who were free) to play again next round and pay.
We shall be recruiting new players again in rnd 11 initially and we will help them.

As for the buddy pack code, I think its great.
Spinner, couldn't you just keep it to a buddy pack of 3, limit, for eack gal and fill the rest up randomly, I see this as the only soulution for all the bitching that is going on above. Then possibly the player base might go up in future rounds as most of the buddy packs, I think, will help the new players and encourage them to pay if they are free.

[Cayl]

Originally Posted by Borg

I aint the HC of NoS, but I reckon I know what they think, YES we would like to be number 1 in alliance rankings...BUT....................... if that means we have to become backstabbing, devious, dishonourable then it isnt worth it.

As a veteran of r4 I must say that this about made me choke. Are you sure you're not just recycling someone elses alliance tag?

Heh heh as you're not an HC and as that was a long time ago, I do wish you well next round

[Tomkat]

I think it's a good idea Spinner, well done. Round 11 is looking better and better.

However, you should take one of these ideas into consideration, as you know the scummers will try and get around this. Looks to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the possible "solutions" are:

-Have a tickbox for buddycode, and make it sent with signup e-mail (from XtoTheZ)
This seems like a better idea for people forgetting their buddycodes etc, as it would be in the e-mail. I could see people having problems with which buddycode they'd written, and you in #planetarion and #support having to deal with loads of players going "Oh, I've forgotten my buddy code, can you help me?".

-A shuffle before tickstart, to prevent people planning to be in the same gal (from Sid)
This seems to be the easiest option. Shuffles are nothing new to code (I assume), and it will prevent people from signing up multiple accounts to try to land in the same galaxy. Of course, there is still the chance that a few people may sign up 5 accounts each (or so), then "buddy up" after the ticks when they find two of the x number of planets they signed up are in the same gal.

-Turn off the "delete" button until ticks have started, and monitor closely for multiple accounts (from A2)
This could go very well with Sid's above option. The two combined would mean that there is even less chance for people to sign up multiple accounts and then end in the same gal after tickstart. Of course the downside to this is that no manual system is perfect. Do you monitor signup IPs, or just e-mail addresses?

-Make the "buddy up" option available after paying
This would obviously take a little bit more coding. To be honest, I think this would be the most effective. Only the most hardcore of cheaters are going to sign up 5 planets or so each, and pay for every one. Also, A2 and the multihunting team could monitor closely the IPs and who was paying for who.


Sorry, there were a lot of posts to crawl through so I thought I'd summarise it for myself and for anyone who has just found the thread.

My opinion? Implement all those changes. The e-mail thing is probably the hardest to code, and will take up the most time. The shuffling is standard, I doubt you'd have problems Turning off the "delete" button shouldn't be too hard, I'm assuming? And we'll have to put faith in our multihunting team The "buddyup" option may take a bit of time also.

Don't take any of this as negative feedback Spinner. Most of us think this is a great idea. It just needs some tweaking.

[Quanticles]

I dont see why you just dont make it such that when you pay for the account you can either...
1) Create a buddy code
2) Use a buddy code
3) Join randomly

Make it so that you have to use the buddy codes when you pay - you cant make a buddy code then use a different one later.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

-A shuffle before tickstart, to prevent people planning to be in the same gal (from Sid)
This seems to be the easiest option. Shuffles are nothing new to code (I assume), and it will prevent people from signing up multiple accounts to try to land in the same galaxy. Of course, there is still the chance that a few people may sign up 5 accounts each (or so), then "buddy up" after the ticks when they find two of the x number of planets they signed up are in the same gal.

I would just like to add here at the same time as the shuffle, delete all free planets that have either not been logged into or not logged into since tick start, this would mean people cant get ****ed by having free planets that arent being played and get a chance for planets that are actually being played in their gal

[Hicks]

Only took 9 rounds to implement, new record.

[Spinner]

If any shuffle is to happen, it must happen AFTER ticks hav started to have an effect.
Maybe at Tick 48 or something, shuffeling all gals but keeping a "buddy-group" together.
Thanks for the feedback, I think it will work well in cooperation with out updated set of anti-cheat tools.
For the record, for the first time, we will be using tools that Actively go out and locate potential cheaters for us, not just passive ones which we have relied upon up until now.
I had a very successfull test of this in the previous beta, where a lot of uninvited accounts came in, and 8 planets were deleted immidiately (4 people had 2 accounts). (It doesnt delete on its own ofc, it presents the results to an admin and he deletes if things check out).

[mist]

i'd ask what it looks for, but you'd not tell me :P

it must be quite impressive tho, as i was under the impression that people arn't closed on IP alone, and an algorithm to match fleet movements must be quite complex / power hungry

-mist

[alch]

Well maybe my point was a little harsh, of course I understand that not everyone has a realistic shot at #1, but they should be doing whatever they can in their power to boost themselves up the rankings, thwart their opponents, and generally make themselves better players.

If you're the #32 ranked alliance, gun for #31, if you're #8, work hard for #7. And when you're #2, don't say, well #2 is quite good really... get your butt in gear and plot for #1

that exactly the concept - perfectly said.

new alliances dont need to get #1 - to 'win'
they just need to engage and fight their real ennemies in their leagues.
which are mostly few ranks around them.

[Cooling]

Originally Posted by Hicks

Only took 9 rounds to implement, new record.

\o/ Spinner wins again \o/

I thought it was a great idea when it was first mooted, and I gotta say it makes me much less reluctant to play in a random universe.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Spinner

First of all, existing players of PA have to take responsibility for what is good for the game at some point. It has been asked of alliances, it has been asked by players, and it's time.
1: This system is not all that abusable
2: For the record, 33% of the paid planets started as free for 2 weeks, then upgraded, so don't tell me there is no way anyone will upgrade
3: There are people playing this game who actually welcome new players in a friendly manner, strange enough as this sounds to some of you. It is not acceptible to ditch the free planets away from the the paid ones again, it defeats the entire purpose. Might as well remove the exile function in stead tbh.

make it sticky that galaxies consists of like 7 paid and 3 unpaid planets or so, like helix said.

or maybe 8/2, or whatever is needed to have it fair everywhere - depends of course on the amount of freebie and paid planets.

btw, make a round free at all ? ;p

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Legator

make it sticky that galaxies consists of like 7 paid and 3 unpaid planets or so, like helix said.

or maybe 8/2, or whatever is needed to have it fair everywhere - depends of course on the amount of freebie and paid planets.

btw, make a round free at all ? ;p

good concept, but hard to implement mathematically. How many paid planets will go random? How many paid to free accounts will we have etc. It would be nice, but a bitch to work out and implement.

[MegaNova]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

good concept, but hard to implement mathematically. How many paid planets will go random? How many paid to free accounts will we have etc. It would be nice, but a bitch to work out and implement.

You do have the statistics, becouse the shuffle will be afther the ticks have started.

[mens]

If I would've gone random, does that ensure me place in a gal with say 2 packs of buddies?

[Tomkat]

Well i just signed up to beta, and ended in this random galaxy with 8 others. 8 + 1 = 9. So 1 place left.

I wanted to play with 2 buddies, but there's no way they can join my gal. I can't shift until I get some resources, and I can't delete to try again. I can see why you aren't allowed to delete, but that's silly. What's the point of the buddycode if you can't go with your buddies?

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Well i just signed up to beta, and ended in this random galaxy with 8 others. 8 + 1 = 9. So 1 place left.

I wanted to play with 2 buddies, but there's no way they can join my gal. I can't shift until I get some resources, and I can't delete to try again. I can see why you aren't allowed to delete, but that's silly. What's the point of the buddycode if you can't go with your buddies?

I had the same problem, I landed as number 9 in my galaxy. It seems we both mayb have entered the code used by some other buddy grp (or there is a bug in it.)

This is why I keep saying make the buddy code work in the same way private galaxies work, have 3 tick boxes 1) Create a buddy code 2) join grp with boddy code X 3) join a random galaxy, and then have a random code generated from a mix of characters and numbers, upper and lower case.

[mist]

perhaps it's spinner's way of encouraging early signups?

-mist

[Tomkat]

I don't think I used the same code as anyone else. I think I just ended up in an almost full gal

That definitely needs to be fixed for round 11.

[furssie]

Originally Posted by mens

If I would've gone random, does that ensure me place in a gal with say 2 packs of buddies?

This is the same thought i was about to ask. Spinner?

Or in general, what is his shuffle logic/algo that ensures that all galaxies are fair (e.g. 1 set of packs accorss all gals in the uni, the rest are random)?

[aif]

hmmmm

i think the buddy system is good, but why have it like a code so ppl can make loads of free planets then give out the code ....

make it like this insted :

1. buddy code and with sign up u have to add 2 e-mails ((these 2 are the only one that would get in to ur galaxy with the buddy code))

if done like that u wont beable to make 50-100 acc (that means u have to have 100-200 e-mails that are vaild)

just an idea ;-)

[Bashar]

I am sure this idea is a variant of one that many of us have been suggesting since round 6.

[The_Fish]

it is indeed Bashar, but be pleased its being implemented

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by aif

hmmmm

i think the buddy system is good, but why have it like a code so ppl can make loads of free planets then give out the code ....

make it like this insted :

1. buddy code and with sign up u have to add 2 e-mails ((these 2 are the only one that would get in to ur galaxy with the buddy code))

if done like that u wont beable to make 50-100 acc (that means u have to have 100-200 e-mails that are vaild)

just an idea ;-)

or make an automated script that deletes ppl who use same ip to create/login to numerous accounts...

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

or make an automated script that deletes ppl who use same ip to create/login to numerous accounts...

and the aol proxies / universities / family members / people who genuinely live together / internet cafes ??
you cant delete someone just because they have the same ip as someone else

[Cooling]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I don't think I used the same code as anyone else. I think I just ended up in an almost full gal

That definitely needs to be fixed for round 11.

Same thing happened to me

I realise its almost an excercise in futility but.... Spinner, fix!

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Cooling

Same thing happened to me

I realise its almost an excercise in futility but.... Spinner, fix!

its because its a beta and there are significantly more players than were expected. Round 11 will be set up slighlty differently so the problem should not occur.

[CrazyConrad]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Well i just signed up to beta, and ended in this random galaxy with 8 others. 8 + 1 = 9. So 1 place left.

I wanted to play with 2 buddies, but there's no way they can join my gal. I can't shift until I get some resources, and I can't delete to try again. I can see why you aren't allowed to delete, but that's silly. What's the point of the buddycode if you can't go with your buddies?

This will fix itself if they shuffle it after tickstart though as you and your 2 buddys will be put together in the same galaxy.

[Cooling]

Originally Posted by Kal

its because its a beta and there are significantly more players than were expected. Round 11 will be set up slighlty differently so the problem should not occur.

Murphy's Law.

This is Planetarion we are talking about here, run by Spanner no less. It is bound to occur in the main round, even with the addition of extra pre shuffle galaxies to take the load.

The cases might not be as frequent, but what will be done when it does occur?

[wakey]

Spinner ran this idea by me before implementing it and he made clear that this isnt there to act like the fully fledged pack system i've been championing since round 3 but simply a system that will enhance random galaxies slightly by giving us a greater chance of having a friendly face in our galaxies. Its not there to ensure we are with our friends but its there to make it more likly. As its just a "quick fix" and not a fullly fledged pack system we really arent losing anything if we end up with none of our friends in the galaxies because the rounds designed to be random and if we end up being away from our friends we havent lost anything but if we end up with just one friend its a bonus.

While it would be nice to have a proper pack solution in place that guarenteed we were with 2 friends I know i'd rather spinner spent time working on other areas of the game rather than rushing a solution

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by Phil^

and the aol proxies / universities / family members / people who genuinely live together / internet cafes ??
you cant delete someone just because they have the same ip as someone else

Maybe not, but then have the script email the MH's instead, making them aware of who's on same ip, then they can easily go back and check for repeating fleet-interaction between the planets and get them closed later into the round. Or at least investergate the cases as they get reported or something.

[aif]

i think the buddy system is good, but why have it like a code so ppl can make loads of free planets then give out the code ....

make it like this insted :

1. buddy code and with sign up u have to add 2 e-mails ((these 2 are the only one that would get in to ur galaxy with the buddy code))

if done like that u wont beable to make 50-100 acc (that means u have to have 100-200 e-mails that are vaild)

just an idea ;-)

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

or make an automated script that deletes ppl who use same ip to create/login to numerous accounts...

^^Originally Posted by Phil^
and the aol proxies / universities / family members / people who genuinely live together / internet cafes ??
you cant delete someone just because they have the same ip as someone else

with my idea u dont have to try and look 4 ip ect it will be to much work .....

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

Maybe not, but then have the script email the MH's instead, making them aware of who's on same ip, then they can easily go back and check for repeating fleet-interaction between the planets and get them closed later into the round. Or at least investergate the cases as they get reported or something.

indeed. the tool i made makes scanning planets for things like that ( and much much more ) simple
ultimately the best tools for things like this are intelligence, and something called common sense

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by wakey

Spinner ran this idea by me before implementing it and he made clear that this isnt there to act like the fully fledged pack system i've been championing since round 3 but simply a system that will enhance random galaxies slightly by giving us a greater chance of having a friendly face in our galaxies. Its not there to ensure we are with our friends but its there to make it more likly. As its just a "quick fix" and not a fullly fledged pack system we really arent losing anything if we end up with none of our friends in the galaxies because the rounds designed to be random and if we end up being away from our friends we havent lost anything but if we end up with just one friend its a bonus.

While it would be nice to have a proper pack solution in place that guarenteed we were with 2 friends I know i'd rather spinner spent time working on other areas of the game rather than rushing a solution

There is one major problem I see with it.

It gives others major advantages over the rest of the playerbase. Those who get placed in a gal where their buddies can join will have a serious advantage over the #9 or #10 planet in a galaxy where they can't get their buddies to join.

[Nitros]

solution:
make the buddies join eachother AFTER the shuffle
so no matter where you end up before the shuffle, "pa" will get all 3 (or 2) together after
this way, people who signup late, wont get a disadvantage

[Psi_K]

Random thought.
Why make the buddy system 3 people.
Why not just reduce it to 2 people, that will make it relatively impossible to stack gals properly, landing that many same alliance members in a gal is difficult.
Just a thought if you really want to impliment this.