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20 Jul 2008, 16:08
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
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New Quest Structure
First let me say this:
Can we please not have to build a Wave Amplifier before we can make a scan? That's redundant at best. Wave Amplifiers are built en-masse to scan planets who've built Wave Distorters. As long as you have an equal amount of Amplifiers to, or more than, a planet's Distorters, you can scan them. So technically with 0 Amplifiers you should be able to scan planets with 0 Distorters.
Secondly:
This, I fear, is going to turn in to another Bikeshed discussion. So yes, there's probably lots of different ways of doing it; yes, I'm sure you have your own thoughts on how it could be done. I'd ask you to bear in mind though that the whole point of quests is to teach newer individuals how to play the game. It doesn't make sense that we should leave them at 'Beginner' level, and not advise them further.
Finally:
Really, the manual at the moment is there to provide formulae to the more 'invested' player for calculations of how to maximise their own score. If we were to include Manual-esque hints as to why they're being asked to do each quest, their understanding of the game will be improved. That is, ultimately, what we're hoping for, right?
Code:
Quest: Beginner
ID Name Mission Reward
1. Initiate Asteroids Gain 3 of Each Asteroid Gain 1000 of Each Resource
- Initiating Asteroids is the easiest way of gaining resources. Initiate 3 of each Asteroid and receive a bonus.
2. Send Message Message 1:1:1 Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Communicating with your fellow player is vital to your success. Test the messaging system now, so you know how to use it when you need to.
3. Vote for GC Vote for GC Gain 10 XP
- Working together as a galaxy will help you in the long run. Chose somebody who you'd like to lead your gal to success.
4. Get Busy Set your population settings Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Your people await instruction. Decide now where your priorities lie, you can change it as often as you like so don't be worried about making mistakes!
5. Join Alliance! Alliance Action: Apply for/Create an alliance Gain 15 XP
- An Alliance is a good way of making friends, participating in attacks and sharing defence. The ingame alliance system will come in useful later on.
6. Say Hello Post on a Galaxy forum Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Dont sit back, make your presence known! If you speak to people, they'll be more inclined to help you :)
7. Asteroid Technology Research Heavy Cargo Transfers I Gain 5000 of Each Resource
- Some people end up with thousands of Asteroids to mine. Start with this small step, and you'll be running the road to victory in no time.
8. Ships Research Fighter Class Hulls Gain 20 XP
- This is a war game. The chances are that somebody will try and steal the Asteroids you've initiated. Research Fighter Class Hulls as a starting point, so that when you have the required factories, you can build ships to defend your planet!
9. Ship Factory Build 1 Factory of any type Gain 10000 of Each Resource
- You may not want to build Fighters or Corvettes, so pick a factory that suits you. Bear in mind though, if you haven't done the relevent research, a factory may well sit dormant until you have!
10. Security Build 1 Security Centre constructions Gain 15000 of Each Resource
- Building a Security Center will help protect you against Covert Operations. Build one now, or you could suffer sooner rather than later.
Quest: Intermediate
ID Name Mission Reward
1. Explore Space Send a fleet to Defend in-galaxy Research Jumpgate
- Defending your galaxy mates is the best way of getting them to help you. Test the defense system now, so that when your gal receives incoming, you'll know what to do.
2. Industrial Sabotage Try to set a planet's research back 5% Gain 3 of Each Asteroid
- This is a sneaky one. When trying to get the edge over another planet, you want to develop your technology quicker than anyone else. Use Covert Operations wisely - if it doesn't work, people will know you've tried it!
3. Information Overload Scan a planet's resources Research Surface Analysis Scans
- When you attack a planet, he may well try and build ships to protect himself against you. Try a planet scan now, and see the amount of resources they have. It will also show you if they're already building ships, and how much is being spent on them. Pay close attention to this, it could save you a lot of score.
4. Get Organised Choose a style of Government Gain 20000 of Each Resource
- Each style of Goverment has it's advantages, depending on how you're trying to play. If you want to focus on Covert Operations, chose the goverment that gives you the best Stealth bonus, for example.
5. Reinforcements! Defend a member of the same alliance Gain 100 XP
- An Alliance is your first line of defense against enemy ships. Any defense you send/receive to/from an alliance member will have an ETA reduction of 1, so you have more time to organise defense. You'll not get any defense though, if you're not willing to defend anybody else!
6. Slight of Hand Launch a fake attack Gain 150 XP
- Fake Attacks can be a very useful trick if used properly. You may want to trick somebody into defending a Fake Attack, so that you can land a real fleet. Try launching a Fake Attack now, and notice the difference on your Missions page
7. Scientifically Minded Build 1 Research Laboratory construction Gain 25000 of Each Resource
- The more Research you do, the longer new Researches will take. Build a Research Center now so you can research the more advanced technologies faster.
8. Fair Trade Trade 10000 resources with the galaxy fund Gain 3 of Each Asteroid
- Unforunately even with the best planning in the world, you'll not always have the exact amount of each resource you need for the things you're spending them on. Practice trading now, but make sure you remember there's a 5% tax on Galaxy Fund transactions, and 25% on Universe Fund trades!
9. Come Together Report a galaxy mate's incoming Gain 200 XP
- Letting your alliance know you have incoming will let them know you have defense. Because you can't be around all the time, you'll have to rely on other people to report your incoming when you're not online. Report a galaxy mate's incoming for a small one-off bonus.
10. Behind Closed Doors Build 1 Wave Distorer construction Gain 200 XP
- Before somebody will attack you, they will usually try to collect information on your planet by scanning you. Wave Distorters are the only way to stop this happening. Build your first now for a small bonus, but as time goes on you'll need more of these as other people build more Amplifiers.
Edit: Sorry for the presentation, hopefully it's clear enough.
Last edited by smith-; 20 Jul 2008 at 16:13.
Reason: sidenote added
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20 Jul 2008, 16:24
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#2
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: New Quest Structure
while I would like the quests to be more useful and for there to be more of them this looks like it could be forcing you down one path too much... for example it forces U to build a disdorter than not everyone will want (tho I note the building any type of factory would get rid of the useless factory etd ended up with this round), and more significantly what are ppl who are not in an alliance to do with the alliance defence option, we should not force everyone to join an alliance to complete the quests (as atm anyone can just apply to an alliance and then withdraw the application).
in short I think the intermediate level needs to be more flexible, tho I have no idea atm how to do it, perhaps several branches should be provided depending on what way a player wishes to go in terms of constructions?
but on the whole I agree that the concept of quests that we have is good but not in its current state nearly as helpful to new players as it should be, and as U say this should be fixed.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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20 Jul 2008, 17:46
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#3
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: New Quest Structure
Glad to see people putting thought into quests...
I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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20 Jul 2008, 18:55
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#4
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: New Quest Structure
I would like to see the linearity of the quest tree dropped completely, I see no reason why I should be unable to to the tenth quest before the first one, if I so wish. Otherwise I'm in total agreement with the OP.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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21 Jul 2008, 00:08
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 499
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I would like to see the linearity of the quest tree dropped completely, I see no reason why I should be unable to to the tenth quest before the first one, if I so wish. Otherwise I'm in total agreement with the OP.
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Just thought this whilst reading the post above urs. Agreed totally. Rewards shud be attained as u complete the quest. Once u complete all quests the next "block" of quests is unlocked. Would make more sense. I do like the idea of having more levels of quests tho, it really would give people a better feel for the game. Nice suggestions imo.
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Founder and HC of [Denial] and [Evolution]
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21 Jul 2008, 06:26
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#6
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Hired Thug
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Glad to see people putting thought into quests...
I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
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I think this is a very good idea, reminds me of the old War/Science choices
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Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world, there is a duck watching you......
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21 Jul 2008, 10:08
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#7
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Glad to see people putting thought into quests...
I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
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covops should be removed totally.
Other than that, I agree.
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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21 Jul 2008, 21:48
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#8
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
covops should be removed totally.
Other than that, I agree.
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Ship blowing is a phenominally useful tool & various other covops are also useful.
Blowing up asteroids is kind of worthless though. Unless I missed something, I'd drop it.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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22 Jul 2008, 00:53
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: New Quest Structure
this would be an improvement of the current quests. However I find that the Government quest comes much too late.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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22 Jul 2008, 01:05
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#10
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: New Quest Structure
When linearity is (finally) abandoned, that shouldn't be as much of a problem, although one might opt to make it part of the beginner quests.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Jul 2008, 15:41
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
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Re: New Quest Structure
I agree with Mzyxptlk, in order for my suggestion to have any kind of benefit, we need to do away with the 'tree' like structure of the quests. The quests do not all go hand in hand with each other, and so it shouldn't be implied that there is a 'set' way in which you're meant to play the game.
And to booji - by removing the linearity of the quests as Mzyxotlk put it, you wouldn't technically have to do any of the quests. But by also giving a bit of detail as to why the quests are being set, it's giving the new player some idea as to why he would need a Distorer (for example), should he choose to take on that particular quest.
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tried of idioters.
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22 Jul 2008, 19:50
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#12
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Warden
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 137
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Re: New Quest Structure
I like it, easy to implement, loses the light factory for ETD, and above all understandable.
Some of the details might have to be tweaked but that's fine. A slight change I would suggest is to the first quest. Rather than initiate 3 of each roid it should be at least 3 of each roid.
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6 Aug 2008, 10:06
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 86
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Re: New Quest Structure
Out of interest what would everyone have as the advanced quests?
I would have:
Steal roids and ships
Steal 2 million bombers
Steal Golden Roids (do they exsit?)
make a netgamers account
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6 Aug 2008, 10:37
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#14
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: New Quest Structure
stealing ships would be difficult when most races cant steal
and incorperating signing up a netgamers account would also be difficult because it is external, it would require someone to match netgamers accounts with pa accounts (which some ppl dont want anyway) and could not easily be done automatically.
There might however be certain advantages to having signing up for a netgamers account more built into the game as it might 1, eliminate some secrecy by making it more difficult to fake nick and 2, persuade more new players of the importance of trying IRC to get on in pa.
I would agree with having stealing roids as one.
I would also have being accepted into an alliance (atm for the beginners quests U just need to apply).
Sending a defence on the same tick as an incoming attack - not sure if this could be made into a 'useful' def with ships that target the inc (would be easiest ingal, but I dont see any reason to limit it).
however as already mentioned quest branches depending on what way you wish to play would be the way to go. This would largely make redundant any attempts to come up with advanced quests that could be used by everyone.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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6 Aug 2008, 11:28
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#15
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: New Quest Structure
why not linearity for the begginer quests? Since to be fair start of round every choice is somewhat linear / the same for everyone unless you are specifically a scanner. You can then have intermediate/advanced quests to be done in any order you want they are just a list with possible xp/resource bonuses for doing them.
Problem would be in that some people may feel hard done by if they cant be arsed to do the quests/feel they dont need to do them as part of their game whilst others are getting xp/res for free.
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6 Aug 2008, 12:04
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#16
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by zokka
Steal 2 million bombers
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I think you're confusing havoc with the actual round.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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6 Aug 2008, 12:10
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#17
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
why not linearity for the begginer quests? Since to be fair start of round every choice is somewhat linear / the same for everyone unless you are specifically a scanner. You can then have intermediate/advanced quests to be done in any order you want they are just a list with possible xp/resource bonuses for doing them.
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Having just looked over the beginner quests in smith's post, I agree. The order is entirely logical, and by changing "build fighter factory" to "build any factory" you avoid any issues with races without fi/co roiding fleets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
Problem would be in that some people may feel hard done by if they cant be arsed to do the quests/feel they dont need to do them as part of their game whilst others are getting xp/res for free.
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This really has become quite irrelevant. The diversity this game had a while back has pretty much been killed. XP whoring has become really quite pointless and distwhoring has died thanks to unlimited FCs. Ignoring the initial research rush (tt or hulls?), we're back at the good old "scans or value" choice. In that light, everyone choosing value will have equal opportunity to do quests.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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6 Aug 2008, 13:35
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: New Quest Structure
This is probably the best suggestion that has ever been made as regards the quest system.
There are a few kinks in the potential system I can think of but nothing important. Opinions?
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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6 Aug 2008, 14:34
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
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Re: New Quest Structure
OMAC should buy netgamers and use it for all it's web-based games. Once it owned netgamers, it could fully implement it into the game, and provide proper support to new players in helping them get in to IRC. Just as a side thought.
At the moment, 'making a netgamers account' could only be enforceable to the extent of 'click this link'. There'd be no way of ensuring the person completed the signup process, and therefore no way of ensuring that newer players actually became involved in that part of the meta-game (since everybody else is throwing that word around now).
All that particular 'quest' would do would be rewarding somebody for clicking a link, and that's a bit too spaceminer-esque for my taste.
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tried of idioters.
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6 Aug 2008, 14:44
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#20
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: New Quest Structure
I'm sure PA and netgamers can co-operate in some way to make it workable.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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26 Jun 2009, 19:08
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#21
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the inquisition incarnate
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
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Re: New Quest Structure
ok i know this is an old thread but i wanted to start the discussion again about the quests. I really like the new quests at the moment, them being non-linear and at same time challenging up to the best ranked players till round-end. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that theres not a single reward to be gained outside the first 2 'easiest' quests.
I understand the idea behind it, the reward itself is incorporated in the quest itself (for example: steal 10 roids from another planet is a reward on its own) but why would it be a quest if so? I really dont see the use of having quests to finish if theres not even a small reward in place? For all i know, these quests were designed for new players to get a better understanding of the game , its different aspects and the goals one should focus on
But if you want a new player to explore the depths of these quests and get an understanding as to why they are being pushed to do certain things, you will want to have them actually use it! And this is where my suggestion comes in:
Why not give a small xp bonus per quest and a slightly bigger one if you manage to complete the whole section? I find the 200 xp for beginner and galaxy/allaince setup to be perfect. We could use like 100 xp per quest and 500 xp upon completing a whole branch, or figures that go up per branch, im sure someone could work that out. These figures hardly make a big difference on the long run in rankings, but it would at least give players a reason to look into it
__________________
Think positively, be constructive, talk obsessively.
"It never hurts to Help!" [Eek the Cat]
Denying existence during r3-6 and back in denial since r22
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26 Jun 2009, 19:24
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: New Quest Structure
In a while, when everyone has one main account they login with on forums/game (every round), the reward could be a record kept of each Quest completed, making it a challenge of who completed the most quests (pele for #1 all time scanner!).
As for now, like you pointed out already, most of them are their own reward.
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26 Jun 2009, 20:02
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#23
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the inquisition incarnate
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
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Re: New Quest Structure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
In a while, when everyone has one main account they login with on forums/game (every round), the reward could be a record kept of each Quest completed, making it a challenge of who completed the most quests (pele for #1 all time scanner!).
As for now, like you pointed out already, most of them are their own reward.
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i forgot to mention the ego part that comes with it indeed, thanks for pointing that out patrikc. Still, even though i said that most of them are their own reward, i see no reason why to put a quest to it? Again, in my view quests are designed for a few reasons, main one being a practical playing-guide stretching out for an entire round, to give guidance to somewhat new players.
In order to give those goals the most potential, i still dont understand why theres not a single reward linked to it.
__________________
Think positively, be constructive, talk obsessively.
"It never hurts to Help!" [Eek the Cat]
Denying existence during r3-6 and back in denial since r22
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