Stagnation

[Neferti]

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Got a guilty conscience? All I'm saying is planet NAPs have helped you.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Neferti

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Got a guilty conscience? All I'm saying is planet NAPs have helped you.

Why would we have a guilty conscience for other allies not being able to controll their members? I think not. And of course they helped - thats why we offer them. I'm afraid you're rather needlessly stating the obvious.

[jupp]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Hypocrits in the way that you made a big deal about certain alliances forming a block (atleast that's what your big boss called it), when infact you've had your own block the whole round already.

And shit and ace... As I said, Fury/Eclipse/1up/whatever has never been able to pull anything off on their own, even now with a huge gap between them and NewDawn they actually need Reunion to help them out for def leech purposes etc.
I think you will find that recruitment has nothing to do with our ranking. We were solid top5 (with roid/value/score averages highest of all alliances) before we recruited. Unlike Reunion who weren't even in the top10. But like you said, we've only attacked small alliances... We've launched at nearly every alliance in-game, incl. LCH, Insomnia and Reunion. LCH and Insomnia dropped out of the ranking and Reunion, well, Reunion has proven to be no match for us... twice. (Remember that during our first "incident" with Reunion we still only had 50-60 members and outclassed them.) How the heck you thought of bringing up the recruitment-policies really amazes me, heh.



PS. I'm not saying we are the best. I'm just saying you are crap.

I'd really like to see anything that makes u think 1up would use us to "def leech" atm ? we havent even attacked ND directly for nearly a week now. maybe check ur info first before u start ur nice AD posts.

But as i already opened this reply thingie now i want to add how great Reunion is if everyone else does the same with their alliances.

When someone from ND says that they started from the scratch it really sounds like a joke to me. yes you had not many members at the start but almost double of that what Reunion started with (35). You have a long experienced command team that has one of the best organizations in the universe. A good position to start a round imo.

Reunion is new this round as u might know with a command team that except from Legator had no experience with leading an alliance before. Our memberbase was solid but you could call it experimental aswell - it was mixed from various alliances.

Next to our lack on officers etc came that we basically had no tools/bot etc to work with at the start and had to develop our own during the round and have a decent system by now :-)
nothing superb but i dont want to bore you with details now.

we were a pretty unknown group with a good average score outside the top 10 - we care about nobody else except our own till the point when we received massive incomings from the "fraction" that formed against 1up at that time assuming we were already allied/naped to them from the start on - but as cypher stated before this is all known stuff. We naped 1up to avoid incomings on each other next to the lots of fleets we get from everywhere already. at this point it was no where clear if 1up will hold their #1 spot OR if Reunion will grow and be a help for 1up.

During the round we gained new members by recruiting (yes and merging ) but we always had a look on the quality of our members not only quantity - as our still high average score proofs imo.

If you compare that with the "bad" starting position of ND now - who should be the winner in ur scale be again ? ND or Reunion ? or maybe a completly different alliance - i am sure that VGN/ToF/ xVx / HR and F-Crew all work very hard for their alliances and do their best to achieve a good rank for their alliance and members. At the end only the score counts at it seems the most objective value to judge who won or not.

for my part i have full respect for every alliance HC who brings his alliance through the round which isnt always that easy. enough for today - thx for reading :-)

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Neferti

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Got a guilty conscience? All I'm saying is planet NAPs have helped you.

Well. Duh.

It's down to other alliances to police their own memberships. We'll police our own, noone elses - thats why we don't complain about Planet NAP's - we dont have a problem with punishing members for them.

[lokken]

While people want to argue about who is right and wrong, I will simply point out ND's attitude to diplomatic policy in PA.

We firmly believe in an independent, self interested policy and just let our members concentrate on playing. We are more than prepared to give off the intention of letting other alliances win, if it means someone gets off our back.. We are more than willing to play off your desire to win and your hatred of other alliances to achieve what we want. I feel this is a lot better than our old policy which was 'NAP 1up and hope for the best' and get massacred due to being seen as 1up puppet flak. We are now firmly seen as open minded and independent, which is more true of ND's classic position in planetarion.

The top 3 are there by merely continuing to exist. That's disgusting. Considering ND were considered as an outside for top 10 this round, i think that's testament to our diplomatic policy and our membership for having the guts to go for it and getting what is generally concerned to be an excellent ranking for an alliance of our (or for this round, any) stature.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by jupp

When someone from ND says that they started from the scratch it really sounds like a joke to me. yes you had not many members at the start but almost double of that what Reunion started with (35). You have a long experienced command team that has one of the best organizations in the universe. A good position to start a round imo.

You mean Gate - no command experience
Fish - no command experience.

I'd say it's pretty much scratch. For the early ticks you'll see we had less than 50. These chaps have been pretty green - yes they have had a lot of advisors behind them but I assure you the decisions made have been their call, every time.

The only thing we did have was a very committed membership. The downside of that is that we are old, hence less able to be as active as perhaps younger players are.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

Atleast no VNC remarks ;p

Kindly **** off my AD ta.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Not really, considering we pretty much came from scratch and are in 2nd place now, I consider ourselves to be the winners of the round.

Just that those furbies (especially papa smurf Sid) were making such a big fuss earlier this round about alliances forming blocks and working together against them, when Fury infact has formed its own block. Damn hypocrits. Like I said, they're just not good enough to do it on their own. The old man (Sid) always needs a walking cane, in previous rounds this has been Virus and ToT. Now it's Reunion. (Walking canes are dead wood, and dead wood burns well; nicely illustrated by Virus/ToT/Reunion throughout the rounds.)

Hear hear, winner in being bigger than loser shocker.

[Legator]

For your information :

Reunion : http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history

ND : http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history


Not that different ! rather weird to play on that tone....
and i , who had and still have, so much respect for nd is a bit surprised about what some of nd post here and on other threads....

and about the beating in two wars, in the first werent just targetted by nd and you know that......at the time i think we had like 55 members and by far more than 160 fleets incoming which were surely not all nd.....i bet atleast one of your command member remebers that......

and the first nap didnt happen cause you nailed us to the ground, it happened cause of other interests....i hope you guys remember that.

Yes, in the second "war" you were better, no doubts, but it werent a "bashing". it was a nice swapping of roids with you on the upper hand.

i dont see why some of you are so bitter.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Not really, considering we pretty much came from scratch and are in 2nd place now, I consider ourselves to be the winners of the round.

i see ToF as the winners :/

[Bashar]

Originally Posted by lokken

You mean Gate - no command experience

Gate certainly considered himself HC last round.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Bashar

Gate certainly considered himself HC last round.

I always considered him a high level officer who was a doer. He definitely hadn't spent much time manipulating politics going into round.

[Bashar]

He spent a lot of time last round trying to run politics from ND's side.

[Paddy]

Originally Posted by jupp

When someone from ND says that they started from the scratch it really sounds like a joke to me. yes you had not many members at the start but almost double of that what Reunion started with (35).

Good to see you do your research before posting. If you look at sandmans you see that at tickstart Reunion had 30 members and ND had 36. By the end of protection Reunion had 41 members and ND had 39.

You have a long experienced command team that has one of the best organizations in the universe. A good position to start a round imo.

ND had 1 HC the same from last round, who was probably the least active of our HCs this round. Admittedly our officers are fairly experienced but we had 1 member who had experience of making the politcal decisions for an alliance.

If you compare that with the "bad" starting position of ND now - who should be the winner in ur scale be again ? ND or Reunion

Well I would say ND and Reunion are actually pretty level this round, with ND maybe having the slight edge, as shown by the more recent of the two wars.

I'm not trying to say that ND are leet and Reunion are crap, I was just pointing out the more obvious inaccuracies(sp?) in your post.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Legator

For your information :

Reunion : http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history

ND : http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history


Not that different ! rather weird to play on that tone....
and i , who had and still have, so much respect for nd is a bit surprised about what some of nd post here and on other threads....

and about the beating in two wars, in the first werent just targetted by nd and you know that......at the time i think we had like 55 members and by far more than 160 fleets incoming which were surely not all nd.....i bet atleast one of your command member remebers that......

and the first nap didnt happen cause you nailed us to the ground, it happened cause of other interests....i hope you guys remember that.

Yes, in the second "war" you were better, no doubts, but it werent a "bashing". it was a nice swapping of roids with you on the upper hand.

i dont see why some of you are so bitter.

In the first 'war', we didn't co-operate with anyone, whilst we had a nap with Insomnia, they were busy hitting Reunion. You have probably taken other incs on that night, but thats to be expected at that stage of the round. I offered you the chance to say no more after the first night, you gave a 'whatever' type attitude. I expected that night to be a long night for ND, so we organised more raids on you. In fact, I remember being on the phone, drunk, at 1am to Gate asking why we werent being killed yet.

The second 'war' was much different, we were outnumbered and had 1 or 2 bad days, however, on the whole we pretty much beat you, we had a little help from LCH on 1 or 2 nights, and by the end of it you had very few good targets left. I have never said we bashed or completely owned you, but we did beat you.

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=compare...lues&show=both

IMO, NewDawn were easily the 2nd best alliance this round. Reunion were beaten by ND twice, and relied on its own skill to get to #2, whereas Reunion is relying on 1up (similar to what ND have done in the past) to get there.

It is nothing to be ashamed of legator, in a few rounds, you might not need to rely on them, similar to how we do not.


edit: I do not mean this post to sound condescending (sp?), Reunion did very well for a first round, I am slightly bitter at your political moves tho ;/

[Banned]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

It is nothing to be ashamed of legator, in a few rounds, you might not need to rely on them, similar to how we do not.

And now you can spend the rest of the round hitting 1up's ally, then go on to not win for a few rounds until Angels joins you as a BG, then proceeds to catalyze your alliance's collapse from the inside.

[Treveler]

What I find a bit amusing about how ND fights is that they have a a lot of ppl with a shitload of resources saved up that would greatly benefit them in this war. Well who am I to complain...

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Treveler

What I find a bit amusing about how ND fights is that they have a a lot of ppl with a shitload of resources saved up that would greatly benefit them in this war. Well who am I to complain...

There are actually strategically sound reasons for some of those.

It's easy to laugh at the losers, you're better off showing some respect/class etc.

[Treveler]

To have some resources saved up is smart as it works as a exstra def fleet when needed, but when its 90 mill of each resource its hardly the benefit of ND those ppl have in mind.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Treveler

To have some resources saved up is smart as it works as a exstra def fleet when needed, but when its 90 mill of each resource its hardly the benefit of ND those ppl have in mind.

I believe you may have missed some words in my post. I specifically excluded 'some' of the hoarders from the group of strategically sound.

[Treveler]

Well I was hardly talking about those with a sound amount of resources saved up.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Bashar

Gate certainly considered himself HC last round.

To clarify the position, I was promoted to def HC for a bit in ND, gave the job to someone else, and was then picked as a SiNND HC. I ran military, plus semi-ran IAD and EAD for about a week, until I tried to vote on the NoS situation and was informed there had been a meeting where I'd been replaced.

As for politics, the vote never got finished as it was politely ignored by one of the HC (or maybe they never turned up; either way, it was left incomplete despite 3 or 4 of the 6 having voted 'yes')

Back on topic: 3 of the 4 ND HC this round are pretty much green. Flying_So-Low, The_Fish and
myself either had 1 week's experience, or none, only the least active, Spritfire has a full round under his belt. And I think this inexperience has shown through pretty clearly, I know I've learnt a lot but with myself leaving PA on doctor's orders (atleast until next round, maybe forever), I'll not be able to put it to use.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Treveler

What I find a bit amusing about how ND fights is that they have a a lot of ppl with a shitload of resources saved up that would greatly benefit them in this war. Well who am I to complain...

If they spent those resources, there would be very little targets they could hit

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Well I was hardly talking about those with a sound amount of resources saved up.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

If they spent those resources, there would be very little targets they could hit

Yes there are very few large 1up planets for your bigger planets to hit. It makes sense to save resources and keep your value down when you are not part of any wars, but it doesnt make much sense now.

[Desse]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

If they spent those resources, there would be very little targets they could hit

They would actually be able to hit some of the biggest and most planets to ND in the universe.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Yes there are very few large 1up planets for your bigger planets to hit. It makes sense to save resources and keep your value down when you are not part of any wars, but it doesnt make much sense now.

I like saved resources, they've saved my ass on many an occasion and I've still been able to make a pain out of myself. (cypher's and cocteau's BS just loved my ghosts )

It discourages attackers and often means you can distract more enemy fleets as they send multiple classes to force you to spend before they can roid you.

[lokken]

last i checked i was the chap who paid and controlled my account.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Gate

I like saved resources, they've saved my ass on many an occasion and I've still been able to make a pain out of myself. (cypher's and cocteau's BS just loved my ghosts )

It discourages attackers and often means you can distract more enemy fleets as they send multiple classes to force you to spend before they can roid you.

By all means. I dont care, in fact I like it too when you do it. It means less defence and less incs.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

In the first 'war', we didn't co-operate with anyone, whilst we had a nap with Insomnia, they were busy hitting Reunion. You have probably taken other incs on that night, but thats to be expected at that stage of the round. I offered you the chance to say no more after the first night, you gave a 'whatever' type attitude. I expected that night to be a long night for ND, so we organised more raids on you. In fact, I remember being on the phone, drunk, at 1am to Gate asking why we werent being killed yet.

The second 'war' was much different, we were outnumbered and had 1 or 2 bad days, however, on the whole we pretty much beat you, we had a little help from LCH on 1 or 2 nights, and by the end of it you had very few good targets left. I have never said we bashed or completely owned you, but we did beat you.

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=compare...lues&show=both

IMO, NewDawn were easily the 2nd best alliance this round. Reunion were beaten by ND twice, and relied on its own skill to get to #2, whereas Reunion is relying on 1up (similar to what ND have done in the past) to get there.

It is nothing to be ashamed of legator, in a few rounds, you might not need to rely on them, similar to how we do not.


edit: I do not mean this post to sound condescending (sp?), Reunion did very well for a first round, I am slightly bitter at your political moves tho ;/

i never stated that i doubt that nd was 2nd best alliance, did i ? im impressed how you played most of the round. its just the arrogance which suprises me. but maybe that is a part of "new" nd.

and about the first war, you know the real intentions behind it....gate talked quite openly about nd´s plans.

i wonder why you guys talk so much shit about it now. stop the arrogance and go on playing like you did - you were good at it.


last thing about our political moves, its very obvious that you played your cards not right. you tried to stay out of everything at the beginning and now where all your partners are gone/broken you search for something to explain why you didnt get #1.

at the time where insomnia and lch were going for 1up you maybe should have done the same, dont you ? I bet with you insomnia wouldnt have down the drain plus 1up and us werent able to take the incs (by that time we were 55 people). Not to forget that hydra was there. What is happening now is just a reflection of what was done wrong in the past.

ps.

im not ashamed of anything

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Legator

at the time where insomnia and lch were going for 1up you maybe should have done the same, dont you ? I bet with you insomnia wouldnt have down the drain plus 1up and us werent able to take the incs (by that time we were 55 people). Not to forget that hydra was there. What is happening now is just a reflection of what was done wrong in the past.

Indeed, we should have joined the 1up bashing wagon. However, at the time it appeared that doing so would allow LCH to run away with the round and then they would be the ones causing stagnation... we were shocked at the inability of 3 alliances to bring down 1up, because we weren't aware of how certain alliances weren't hitting 1up (again, not to say this is wrong, it was your choice, but what we saw was very different).

To be fair, not only are we outclassed at PA by 1up, but Sid's propaganda also played a key role this round, hence why I for one was loath to join any particular side.

[Morden]

one of the key qualities any HC need to demonstrate is the ability to see through propaganda though ;-)

besides, surely you must have known that by avoiding the bigger alliances for a while to gain easier roids, that eventually whoever emerged victorious, would go straight after you......... be it for easy roids, to elimate a potential threat, or simply because they felt that you should have joined in the fight earlier?

personally I think ND have shown quite a lot of skill and potential for the future, however the only thing that really needs sorting its a political direction, cause without decent politics, yoiu'll almost always end up dead.

gl etc

[Cocteau]

Morden :-;

Howdy <3

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Morden

one of the key qualities any HC need to demonstrate is the ability to see through propaganda though ;-)

besides, surely you must have known that by avoiding the bigger alliances for a while to gain easier roids, that eventually whoever emerged victorious, would go straight after you......... be it for easy roids, to elimate a potential threat, or simply because they felt that you should have joined in the fight earlier?

personally I think ND have shown quite a lot of skill and potential for the future, however the only thing that really needs sorting its a political direction, cause without decent politics, yoiu'll almost always end up dead.

gl etc

heh, I've heared this before

[Agerus]

Originally Posted by Legator

i never stated that i doubt that nd was 2nd best alliance, did i ? im impressed how you played most of the round. its just the arrogance which suprises me. but maybe that is a part of "new" nd.

and about the first war, you know the real intentions behind it....gate talked quite openly about nd´s plans.

i wonder why you guys talk so much shit about it now. stop the arrogance and go on playing like you did - you were good at it.


last thing about our political moves, its very obvious that you played your cards not right. you tried to stay out of everything at the beginning and now where all your partners are gone/broken you search for something to explain why you didnt get #1.

at the time where insomnia and lch were going for 1up you maybe should have done the same, dont you ? I bet with you insomnia wouldnt have down the drain plus 1up and us werent able to take the incs (by that time we were 55 people). Not to forget that hydra was there. What is happening now is just a reflection of what was done wrong in the past.

ps.

im not ashamed of anything

imo, best post on AD for a long time!

[Neferti]

Originally Posted by Neferti

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Got a guilty conscience? All I'm saying is planet NAPs have helped you.

People were missing my point entirely here, but it has been a busy thread since then and I was going to let it pass. Then some loser sent anon negrep calling me a dumbass for it, so perhaps I should defend.

When i first mentioned Planet NAPs in this thread, 1up's first reaction was to get all defensive and say 'well everyone has planet NAPs' and 'its not our fault' which wasnt my point at all. The point was that its not true to say 1up had only one NAP when they NAPped many individual planets, I'd love to know how many.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Legator

i never stated that i doubt that nd was 2nd best alliance, did i ? im impressed how you played most of the round. its just the arrogance which suprises me. but maybe that is a part of "new" nd.

Tbh we have allways been arrogant

Oh, and as it said prolly many times before, signing the "contract" with 1up was signing that you wouldnt win the round.. Like we have done before, nothing wrong with it, but you say we played our cards wrong, surely you did too, cause you have no chance of winning, like we do atm...

[Desse]

I don´t think Reunion ever thought about winning the round, when they signed the NAP.

When they signed the NAP they were in 7th(?) position. No idea of how long the NAP was signed for, but a lot of these deals are usually set to the end of the round. Since neither 1up nor Reunion wants to go back on their word, Reunion will finish 2nd or 3rd, which is a nice position compared to the 7th place they had.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Desse

I don´t think Reunion ever thought about winning the round, when they signed the NAP.

When they signed the NAP they were in 7th(?) position. No idea of how long the NAP was signed for, but a lot of these deals are usually set to the end of the round. Since neither 1up nor Reunion wants to go back on their word, Reunion will finish 2nd or 3rd, which is a nice position compared to the 7th place they had.

But then again, you dont mention that they had #1 spot fo a while, when the situation changed.. But due to they merged etc many wanted to hit them, they couldnt hold it, that was when they _MAYBE_ should have reconsidered what they agreed with 1up.. All agreements are breakable, and you can even do it honorable.. And if im correct i dont think they signed to end of round NAP.. (Dont quote me on the last part tho)

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Neferti

When i first mentioned Planet NAPs in this thread, 1up's first reaction was to get all defensive and say 'well everyone has planet NAPs' and 'its not our fault' which wasnt my point at all. The point was that its not true to say 1up had only one NAP when they NAPped many individual planets, I'd love to know how many.

Sorry Nef, but you're inheritingly wrong to call class individual NAP's on the same scale as an alliance NAP. Never ever in Planetarion history has individual planet NAP's counted as one big overall official NAP.

Not even I know how many individual planet NAPs there are - I could find out, but it's confidential information anyway

[Legator]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Tbh we have allways been arrogant

Oh, and as it said prolly many times before, signing the "contract" with 1up was signing that you wouldnt win the round.. Like we have done before, nothing wrong with it, but you say we played our cards wrong, surely you did too, cause you have no chance of winning, like we do atm...

not all of you were arrogant.

about playing our cards, i think you should get your facts right at first. we signed the nap at a time we were happy to be in the top 10.

with 40 to 50 player by that time we never thought we would win the round.......so that was kinda a stupid thing of you to say.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Legator

not all of you were arrogant.

about playing our cards, i think you should get your facts right at first. we signed the nap at a time we were happy to be in the top 10.

with 40 to 50 player by that time we never thought we would win the round.......so that was kinda a stupid thing of you to say.

Yes but, you also neglect the fact that the situation changed once you merged and recruited..

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

But then again, you dont mention that they had #1 spot fo a while, when the situation changed.. But due to they merged etc many wanted to hit them, they couldnt hold it, that was when they _MAYBE_ should have reconsidered what they agreed with 1up.. All agreements are breakable, and you can even do it honorable.. And if im correct i dont think they signed to end of round NAP.. (Dont quote me on the last part tho)

What you and other ND failed to realize is that for Reunion to break the NAP with 1up would have left them high and dry politically. It would have given them a short-term benefit rather than thinking for their final end of round rank.

ND should focus upon their own politics rather than the politics of others.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

What you and other ND failed to realize is that for Reunion to break the NAP with 1up would have left them high and dry politically. It would have given them a short-term benefit rather than thinking for their final end of round rank.

ND should focus upon their own politics rather than the politics of others.

Im not focusing on anyones politics
I just like to ramble my thoughts when others has done the same (for example you).. And still, we NAP'ed earlier round too.. but what happened, we are political dry, and tbh that isnt much help in a war.. But then again. shit happens..

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Im not focusing on anyones politics
I just like to ramble my thoughts when others has done the same (for example you).. And still, we NAP'ed earlier round too.. but what happened, we are political dry, and tbh that isnt much help in a war.. But then again. shit happens..

ND became reactive towards the latter half of the round. If there's anything I've learnt in PA it's not to rely on others to do a job for you - they've been the ruin of many a great plan.

[RiXX]

Reading this thread depressed me, I have to say I've been surprised at some of the aggression, and a little disheartened at the arrogance of some people :/ But here are my opinions on things anyway.

Firstly, with regards to the Reunion/ND spat - even if people think ND won comfortably (and I don't think we did), it's not particularly pleasant to crow about it on AD. It doesn't make you look 'ard, it just makes you seem like a twat tbh.

Secondly, ND's position. I wholeheartedly agree that we have done very well this round, with a nice, active membercore that have all contributed in one way or another. The HC team deserve special mention in this, as they've put in hours and hours of hard work and it's obviously paid off. However, some of the arrogance I've seen from members about our #2 spot worries me. I think it would pay to not forget the boosts gained from WP/SiN, and from alliances disbanding and giving up. Would we have been top5 otherwise? Definitiely. But second? I doubt it.

However, about our politics, the initial aim of ND at the beginning of the round I believe was to consolidate our memberbase and concentrate inwards in order to grow in strength and camraderie, not to challenge for the #1 spot or get involved in politics as far as possible. As we've become more and more successful and as a result more and more competitive, our political aims have changed, but I think it's important when analysing our current policies to bear in mind our original objectives, which I believe to an extent we've achieved. How much of our memberbase remains with us next round will be the proper test, of course.

Thirdly, with regards to 1up running away with victory. So what? Nobody is organised enough to challenge them properly and keep up, but that's our problem not theirs. I think they deserve credit for fighting a hard battle against three alliances who eventually crumbled for one reason or another. Although anybody who knows me, knows my opinions on large concentrations of excellent players in one place, you can't begrudge them respect for the fight they've showed.

I am writing this with three hours of sleep, and a hard day shifting delivery in the warehouse so my points may not be as coherent and my arguments as cohesive as I'd have liked, but these are essentially my two cents worth.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

What you and other ND failed to realize is that for Reunion to break the NAP with 1up would have left them high and dry politically. It would have given them a short-term benefit rather than thinking for their final end of round rank.

ND should focus upon their own politics rather than the politics of others.

Maybe you are right, maybe Reunion would be in a better position now than if they had tried to win.

However, if they had decided to go at 1up, maybe LCH would have not collapsed, Reunion might still be holding 2nd and their best hope of a 2nd place wouldnt have come in the form of hoping 1up can beat ND so much that Reunion can sneak 2nd.

I do not think ND would have needed to break a nap with Reunion if one had been formed, I don't think any alliance would have got ahead of 1up easy enough to make it worthwhile.

As it is, Reunion will end 3rd, I can't see how they made the right political moves for this round.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Maybe you are right, maybe Reunion would be in a better position now than if they had tried to win.

However, if they had decided to go at 1up, maybe LCH would have not collapsed, Reunion might still be holding 2nd and their best hope of a 2nd place wouldnt have come in the form of hoping 1up can beat ND so much that Reunion can sneak 2nd.

I do not think ND would have needed to break a nap with Reunion if one had been formed, I don't think any alliance would have got ahead of 1up easy enough to make it worthwhile.

As it is, Reunion will end 3rd, I can't see how they made the right political moves for this round.

The_Fish, I'm quite certain that LCH and Angels would have split regardless of the actions ND/1up/Reunion took.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Maybe you are right, maybe Reunion would be in a better position now than if they had tried to win.

However, if they had decided to go at 1up, maybe LCH would have not collapsed, Reunion might still be holding 2nd and their best hope of a 2nd place wouldnt have come in the form of hoping 1up can beat ND so much that Reunion can sneak 2nd.

I do not think ND would have needed to break a nap with Reunion if one had been formed, I don't think any alliance would have got ahead of 1up easy enough to make it worthwhile.

As it is, Reunion will end 3rd, I can't see how they made the right political moves for this round.

I'll say it again. A breakage of NAP between 1up/Reunion would have benefitted one alliance the most and that was NewDawn. Reunion's chance of #1 from breaking their NAP with 1up was slim at best - it gave two other alliances a better chance fo finishing better than them. You also forget that you had already lumped it with LCH then.

You have to realize short-term gain does not equal an end round ranking. There was still a month to go at that stage - and as been seen, a couple of nights is enough to wreck an alliance's round.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

I'll say it again. A breakage of NAP between 1up/Reunion would have benefitted one alliance the most and that was NewDawn. Reunion's chance of #1 from breaking their NAP with 1up was slim at best - it gave two other alliances a better chance fo finishing better than them. You also forget that you had already lumped it with LCH then.

You have to realize short-term gain does not equal an end round ranking. There was still a month to go at that stage - and as been seen, a couple of nights is enough to wreck an alliance's round.

Yes it would have benefit ND. However, the evidence now suggests they made the wrong move. They are now over 50m behind ND, where would they have been had they accepted our first offer of a nap?

As for an alliances round being ruined - lol.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Yes it would have benefit ND. However, the evidence now suggests they made the wrong move. They are now over 50m behind ND, where would they have been had they accepted our first offer of a nap?

As for an alliances round being ruined - lol.

Our round isnt ruined, its more reunioned (hahaha!)

Tho zhil had a point, many alliances broke cause they didnt have the stability, gladly we 2 not