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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 12:32   #1
CaShY
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frame and https

Frames and HTTPS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, i was wondering if anyone has a fix for a problem i have come accross i have googled and googled and not come accross the right answer so i thought i'd ask here.

Basically my problem is i am running the following script.

http://www.catchthatprize.co.uk/fram...w.amazon.co.uk

this allows a person to go to a site but keep a bar to ours accross the top.

However should the user ever navigate themselves to a https server on the bottom section.

Cause of the frames they will get a security warning.

I was wondering if anyone knows away i can fix this so that if they visit navigate to a https page it will close the top frame and open the bottom frame in its own window.

I only have access to the code for the top and frame set. As the navigated page could be anywere.

Any help will be thankful for

John
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 13:05   #2
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Re: frame and https

isnt it a security measure rather than a 'bug' or anything that can be fixed ?

of course they get a warning - browsing secure sites through a frame IS a security hazard.

also, your frames disapper as soon as i navigate anywhere in firefox.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 13:11   #3
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Re: frame and https

Don't use frames.
See? Fixed.



Seriously, frames are a bad solution as they tend to cause all sorts of issues.
Especially now that browsers are coming onstream with proper XHTML and CSS2 support there is no need for frames. CSS provides for scrollable areas if pretty scrollbars is what you're after.
And never ever ever use iFrames, they're even worse.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 13:18   #4
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Re: frame and https

i am not after scrollable areas i want to provide the users of my site with an easy way of getting back to our site after they go of and register with some competition sites.

And its the only real solution that can be used.

ITs not a bug i know i never said it was

i just wanted a way to improve it..

Also my firefox doesn't do that. Weird
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 14:24   #5
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Re: frame and https

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaShY
i am not after scrollable areas i want to provide the users of my site with an easy way of getting back to our site after they go of and register with some competition sites.
Why not just open the competition sites in a new window?
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 14:35   #6
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Re: frame and https

There's not many things more annoying than some web designer deciding for me how my screen real-estate is going to be used when I navigate away from his page.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 15:49   #7
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Re: frame and https

i would use a new window

but i need them to go off the page they click from at the same time.

i was using

<a href=go.php?id=$id target='_blank' onClick="parent.location='index.php';">

however internet explorer's pop up protection willn ot let me use this

however firefox's will

go figure




so i had to find alternative means and this was the solutino i came up with mentioned above.

Now i am no javascript wizard so if one of you guys can make that link internet explorer prove that would be great.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 16:09   #8
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Re: frame and https

ok i fixed it the proper way ish

used javascript
newWindow = window.open(contentURL);
newWindow.focus()
document.location = 'index.php';
}

and call the link using
"<a href=# onClick=\"javascriptpenWindow('click.php?id=$competition[id]');\">link</a> " .

no more frames
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 17:20   #9
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Re: frame and https

****ing about with the user's expectations of navigation is bad, mmm-kay.

That includes providing alternate routes to (or for) the back and/or forward button, pulling frame contents across domains, opening new windows, and triggering unexpected behaviours for primary concepts such as links.

The best way to implement this without pissing off half your visitors would be as optional functionality, with the default set to open links normally in the current window.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 17:58   #10
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Re: frame and https

As sayonara has touched on, anyone with a strict security policy won't see external sites in frames as cross-domain content is disallowed by IE (and other browsers) on higher security settings.
This is a likely scenario in many work setups.

I would just go with Nod's method, what's wrong with a new window?
There's nothing that makes the red mist descend more for me than a site that messes with the navigation. I find the ones that "disable" the back button so the previous page forwards straight back to their page particularly infuriating.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 20:16   #11
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Re: frame and https

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
I would just go with Nod's method, what's wrong with a new window?
There's nothing wrong with it as such (in fact, since new windows open in tabs on my FF installation I personally prefer it for external content), but it is slightly user-hostile behaviour.

As Jakob Nielsen infamously noted, it's like a vacuum cleaner salesman starting his visit by emptying an ash-tray on your carpet.
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Unread 7 Dec 2004, 20:50   #12
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Re: frame and https

If I ever find a site that insists on keeping a frame in my window (lo Hotmail), I kill it.

The frame, not the site.

Or the owners.

I'm not a homicidal maniac.
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Unread 8 Dec 2004, 00:57   #13
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Arrow Re: frame and https

I ****IN hate sites that open new windows... I don't like new windows, my popupblocker doesn't, and this guy's site (link from sayonara) doesn't as well.

You can't copy-paste the javascript-link to somebody (reaaaaaally annoying), and these new windows keep on appearing.

Ok ok, I _know_ that frames are shit for some reasons. Search engines indexing etc.
BUT THEY ARE BETTER THAN NEW WINDOWS.

And I like the idea of having a "static" menu page, which only (re-)loads the sites which are needed from the server.
It works with older browsers, and gives you 2 seperate scrollbars for navigation and content.
I like it. It's ok.

Filemanagers also consist of "frames", if you wanna put it that way (Windows explorer, directories on the left ^= menu, files ^= content on the right side).

If a webdesigner isn't stupid enough to try to "keep" users on his site by linking external links to his content-frame (instead of giving a new _parent), there should be no real annoyance for surfers.


Really, I already got enough windows in my taskbar / browserbar. I don't want any more unasked.
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Unread 8 Dec 2004, 01:07   #14
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Re: frame and https

Yes but these are links to external sites.
IMO, there are only two acceptable ways to deliver a link to an external site.
1) Open it in the same window as your site, leaving your site in the process. This is the prefered method, as users have the choice to open it in a new window if they think they still need your site (rightclick, open in new window/tab or equivilant).
2) If you MUST keep your site open for whatever reason then and only then should a new window be used. This should be a standard new window (target="_blank") with no annoyances like removal of navigation toolbars or preset sizes.
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Unread 9 Dec 2004, 21:45   #15
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Re: frame and https

no pop-ups, please, no more pop-ups....

Luckily I've got a good browser and a nice pop-up blocker...

In reality, I almost entirely open a new window whenever I'm about to leave a website, any link that I rightclick and 'open new window' that doesn't give me a nice working window, right there, right now, I'll just close and find a way to work around them.

Also, frames almost always get in the way, 1 of the few exceptions is probably the frame google adds when you click an image link on the image search, because sometimes the image can be quite well hidden on the website and the frame then gives you the option to head directly to the image and not have to look for it on the website
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