War US-V.S-WORLD

[Jesse]

What do you think of the upcoming war, do you think the americans are dum,smart, do you think there terrerists,or angles

just give me your opinion

[Belgarath The Sorcerer]

Notwithstanding the Iraqi regime's human right's abuses, my cynical opinion based on all publicly available evidence is that Bush Jnr is going in to finish the job his daddy wouldn't let Stormin' Norman do back in '92.

With the added bonus of all that oil.

[Deffeh]

i think this thread is unneccesary

[W]

I think a war with the US is both unrealistic and unnecesarry at this point. If the situation worsens the way it has the last decades, I'd say the need for action lies a few more decades into the future.

[Intervention]

In my opinion, the current American leadership is nothing but Nationalism and is not a huge amount better than what Nazi Germany was.

[W]

Originally posted by Intervention
In my opinion, the current American leadership is nothing but Nationalism and is not a huge amount better than what Nazi Germany was.

They've atleast managed to keep the concentration camps secret, which is a much bigger challenge today than it was 60 years ago.

Originally posted by W
They've atleast managed to keep the concentration camps secret, which is a much bigger challenge today than it was 60 years ago.

Keep in mind though that they are also a lot more dominant than Germany was 60 years ago. And as far as I have observed, it actually seems not to be that noone knows about the camps, it's that noone says anything (Governments, that is). The same goes for all the inane claims about various 'rogue nations' that America has made since 9/11. Almost like the entire world just sort of nods their head so as not to be 'the next one'.

[W]

Originally posted by Mr. Hello
Keep in mind though that they are also a lot more dominant than Germany was 60 years ago. And as far as I have observed, it actually seems not to be that noone knows about the camps, it's that noone says anything (Governments, that is). The same goes for all the inane claims about various 'rogue nations' that America has made since 9/11. Almost like the entire world just sort of nods their head so as not to be 'the next one'.

Shut up! I was making a point and a joke at the same time. You're just ruining a joke and making a point at the same time, which is destructive combination and not one of positive synergy!

When I was six, my Dad and I built a boat.

[Intervention]

Originally posted by Mr. Hello
When I was six, my Dad and I built a boat.

TERRORIST!!

[Texan]

Originally posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
Notwithstanding the Iraqi regime's human right's abuses, my cynical opinion based on all publicly available evidence is that Bush Jnr is going in to finish the job his daddy wouldn't let Stormin' Norman do back in '92.

With the added bonus of all that oil.

Don't you mean that the United Nations did not authorise Stormin' Norman to do back in '91?

Do you really think the United States plans to take all the oil from the Iraqi people and give them nothing in return?

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Texan
Don't you mean that the United Nations did not authorise Stormin' Norman to do back in '91?

Do you really think the United States plans to take all the oil from the Iraqi people and give them nothing in return?

possible yes.


bush jr went after osama, he had his chance to capture or kill him but let it slip through his fingers. now to gain favourtism he is going after bigger pray, its all polotics. there are rumors that iraq is buying nucular war heads from korea. i dont know if this is true but i do know that korea is making nucular warheads and selling them to the highest bidder!

NEXT QUESTION: do you think canada should join the fight, and why or why not

[Judge]

Originally posted by Jesse

NEXT QUESTION: do you think canada should join the fight, and why or why not

On which side?

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Jesse
possible yes.


bush jr went after osama, he had his chance to capture or kill him but let it slip through his fingers.

Not for want of trying.

now to gain favourtism he is going after bigger pray, its all polotics.

I'd stay clear of using 'politics' as an argument if I were you, this post so far doesn't show much grasp of politics.

there are rumors that iraq is buying nucular war heads from korea. i dont know if this is true but i do know that korea is making nucular warheads and selling them to the highest bidder!

No you don't know that, North Korea is best served by keeping any nuclear warheads they produce right at home. That way they can tell the US to sod off and still claim to be a responsible nation looking top rotect it's own citizens. Right now N. Korea is looking pretty good to a lot of people, selling nuclear weapons them to Iraq would be suicide as all the positive public opinion they currently have would be lost in an instant.

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Right now N. Korea is looking pretty good to a lot of people

Who???

[Judge]

Originally posted by Tactitus
Who???

Me for one, I like the food from our local Korean Restaurant.

Beats the hell out of that Pizza crap.

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Judge
Me for one, I like the food from our local Korean Restaurant.

Must be a South Korean Restaurant. A North Korean Restaurant wouldn't have any food.

[Judge]

Originally posted by Tactitus
Must be a South Korean Restaurant. A North Korean Restaurant wouldn't have any food.

True

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Tactitus
Who???

Everyone the world over who's enjoying seeing someone stand up to the US and say "We're doing this and it's got **** all to do with you so piss off.". The fact that Bush doesn't know whether to ****, fart, or drop dead adds massively to the amusement value

[Judge]

Just as a minor diversion to the topic, perhaps someone will give me enlightenment.

Where the hell does the US get off telling other countries if they can have Nuclear Biological or Chemical weapons?

Who died and made them King of the world?

Please note: When I refer to the US, I am commenting on the Government/Administration/President. Not particularly the encumbant president but the office.

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Everyone the world over who's enjoying seeing someone stand up to the US and say "We're doing this and it's got **** all to do with you so piss off.". The fact that Bush doesn't know whether to ****, fart, or drop dead adds massively to the amusement value

They must be pretty desperate for anti-American role models to crawl into Kim Jung-Il's bed.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Tactitus
They must be pretty desperate for anti-American role models to crawl into Kim Jung-Il's bed.

We don't want 'anti-American' role models, we just like seeing someone stand up for their own country. Oh how we wish Blair would do the same thing

We're basically puppets of the US at the moment and it's embarrasing

[Sub]

Bush on Osama:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him. "
-- 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority. "
-- 2002-03-13

Originally posted by Judge

Who died and made them King of the world?

The Soviet Union.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Mr. Hello
The Soviet Union.

Omg, that made me laugh.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Judge
Just as a minor diversion to the topic, perhaps someone will give me enlightenment.

Where the hell does the US get off telling other countries if they can have Nuclear Biological or Chemical weapons?

Who died and made them King of the world?

Please note: When I refer to the US, I am commenting on the Government/Administration/President. Not particularly the encumbant president but the office.

Because they can? If in reality they can get away with their actions, wouldnt their belief that their actions were viable be entirely rationally?

[Terra Australis]

Originally posted by Mr. Hello
The Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union aint dead, they have just changed government to a democracy, they still have all there military equipment I.E tanks and planes and troops, plus a reasonable Navy.

Sure alot maybe in disrepair, but they are getting back on track and rebuilding there economy.

They may not be one nation, but they would be all loosely allied to each other though.

100 Years of Communism and then changing to a democracy, one would expect them to be behind in certain technological aspects.
How they respond to this change is going to be interesting for them, but i am sure that Russia will be a world power again.

If they were such a pushover nations would have decided to invade Russia, and divide it up between them.

By world power i mean that they will be up there on the world stage as an economic power, and also have a decent Military.... they just have to get there economic affairs sorted out.

Look at how quickly Germany rebuilt after WWI, even with the restrictions of the armistace at the end of WWI placed upon them.

That rebuild was done in about 15 years , so if Germany can do it so can the Ruskies.....

[hyfe]

Originally posted by Tactitus
They must be pretty desperate for anti-American role models to crawl into Kim Jung-Il's bed.

From
USA = evil
follows
N.Korea = good

leftist europeans have the same love for black'n'white thinking as everybody else

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by hyfe
From
USA = evil
follows
N.Korea = good

leftist europeans have the same love for black'n'white thinking as everybody else

Don't be so stupid.

Oh, and I'm a Thatcherite, NOT a left winger.

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Terra Australis
The Soviet Union aint dead, they have just changed government to a democracy, they still have all there military equipment I.E tanks and planes and troops, plus a reasonable Navy.

Sure alot maybe in disrepair, but they are getting back on track and rebuilding there economy.

They may not be one nation, but they would be all loosely allied to each other though.

100 Years of Communism and then changing to a democracy, one would expect them to be behind in certain technological aspects.
How they respond to this change is going to be interesting for them, but i am sure that Russia will be a world power again.

If they were such a pushover nations would have decided to invade Russia, and divide it up between them.

By world power i mean that they will be up there on the world stage as an economic power, and also have a decent Military.... they just have to get there economic affairs sorted out.

Look at how quickly Germany rebuilt after WWI, even with the restrictions of the armistace at the end of WWI placed upon them.

That rebuild was done in about 15 years , so if Germany can do it so can the Ruskies.....

whether or not the soviet union rebuilds it really doesn't matter, unless they deside to join the war,

on another note. if iraq or some other terrerist group launches a missle that kills millions of people than it could happen to other countries. that would give other countries a reason to fight, if us falls it would be bad for us CANADIANS!!!!!!!, but if canada falls than US is done fore, we are 1/5 there economy, now that may not seem like alot but look at our population compared to theres, and the rest of the countries who shop there.

well good luck US. your going to need it against them

NEXT QUESTIONo you think canada should join the iraqs, US, or stay Neutral?

my votes on Neutral, we dont want to be apart of that ****y nation US, or deal with nucular weapons by iraq

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Texan
Don't you mean that the United Nations did not authorise Stormin' Norman to do back in '91?

It would have been politically foolish to try and topple Saddam in '92. That's why Bush didn't go down that path.

It still is politically foolish to try and topple Saddam, in many respects.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Because they can? If in reality they can get away with their actions, wouldnt their belief that their actions were viable be entirely rationally?

So murder is morally justified, if getting away with it is viable, and the perpetrator think's it's okay?

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Oh, and I'm a Thatcherite, NOT a left winger.

Go go wiv dat handbag power.

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
So murder is morally justified, if getting away with it is viable, and the perpetrator think's it's okay?

if someone trapped you in a back alley okay, and a guy was trying to kill you, no escape, hes faster, you see a metel pipe in arms reach, would you grap it and kill him or leave it and die!

im not saying murder is justified, becaue it never is. but there is not one person in this world who hasn't murdered, they may step on an ant or bug KILLING it or kill a blade of grass.

i wouldn't go out and kill people like the terrerists would AKA(US) but i would kill to protect my family. i would have trouble doing it but i would do it all the same. would you be more afraid of a poor person trying to steal a loaf of bread to save his starving children or would you be more afraid of a thief who is taught stealing is a good thing and anybody doing the opposite is bad and deserve to die?

i would be more afraid of person number two. tell me what you have to say about that!

[Sub]

Originally posted by Jesse
if iraq or some other terrerist group

Iraq is a terrorist group now?

Originally posted by Jesse
launches a missle that kills millions of people than it could happen to other countries.

That must be one heck of a missile.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Jesse
but there is not one person in this world who hasn't murdered, they may step on an ant or bug KILLING it or kill a blade of grass.

mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)

The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

I'm really into grammar nazi mode today

[W]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I'm really into grammar nazi mode today

That's more semantics than grammar tho.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by W
That's more semantics than grammar tho.

But who ever heard of a 'Semantics nazi'?

[W]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
But who ever heard of a 'Semantics nazi'?

Anyone who's read this atleast?
Or you could always just write "pedant"...

[Grind]

Originally posted by Jesse
i wouldn't go out and kill people like the terrerists would AKA(US)

first, learn how to spell TERRORIST.

but i would kill to protect my family.

how is this different than the united states killing to protect it's country and citizens?

[Terra Australis]

Originally posted by Jesse
whether or not the soviet union rebuilds it really doesn't matter, unless they deside to join the war,

on another note. if iraq or some other terrerist group launches a missle that kills millions of people than it could happen to other countries. that would give other countries a reason to fight, if us falls it would be bad for us CANADIANS!!!!!!!, but if canada falls than US is done fore, we are 1/5 there economy, now that may not seem like alot but look at our population compared to theres, and the rest of the countries who shop there.

well good luck US. your going to need it against them

NEXT QUESTIONo you think canada should join the iraqs, US, or stay Neutral?

my votes on Neutral, we dont want to be apart of that ****y nation US, or deal with nucular weapons by iraq

Canada would not fall, as you are surrounded by Alaska and then the U.S

Besides it would take a hell of an invasion fleet to invade Canada which mind you would be spotted since there is a large U.S presence in Japan.

Think about it, with all the bases that the U.S has scatted throughout the pacific any invasion fleet that would be launched to invade Canada and subsequently the U.S, would be attacked by Long Range Bombers carrying cruise missiles, Submarines, Surface warships, carrier Borne aircraft, then eventually shore launched aircraft.

The chances of such a fleet reaching Canada undetected about zilch.

Think of how many ships were involved in the d day landings, then imagine how many ships carrying men would be required to take out the Canada and then the U.S.

Canada join the iraqis with what?

You dont have much of an army to start off with?
Why would you when you are next to a world super power, and have there northern territory above you and there homeland below you.
Not to mention that you are surrounded by ocean.
A pretty good defence in itself.

I have talked to a mate in Canada, and he said the military that Canada possesses is a joke.

[starbreeze]

Originally posted by Terra Australis

I have talked to a mate in Canada, and he said the military that Canada possesses is a joke.

WE WILL RULE THE WORLD WITH OUR HELOS THAT DON'T WORK!!!....sad but true...the canadian army is about on par with that of peru and bolivia...sigh

[Terra Australis]

Originally posted by starbreeze
WE WILL RULE THE WORLD WITH OUR HELOS THAT DON'T WORK!!!....sad but true...the canadian army is about on par with that of peru and bolivia...sigh

Hardly a world conquering nation then!!!!!!

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
So murder is morally justified, if getting away with it is viable, and the perpetrator think's it's okay?

Thats got nothing to do with what I said; I never mentioned morality or justification. The rationality of a belief is a measure of how much it conforms to reality. If a society is unable to catch criminals, then a criminal would be rationally justified in thinking that he would be able to commit a crime and get away with it. America is rationally justified in believing that it can act as if it is "king of the world" to a certain degree, because noone looks likely to oppose it in reality. If America acts like it is king of the world (and does what it pleases) while everyone else allows it to happen, then the statement "America is king of the world and can do what it pleases" is perfectly rational as it is completely in accordance with reality.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Jesse
im not saying murder is justified, becaue it never is

Murder cannot be defended or justified in any situation by definition of what the word means ('immoral killing'). Calling an action 'murder' implies that you have already passed moral judgement upon it. People may argue whether a specific killing constitues a murder (ie whether it is morally wrong within their ethical framework), but thats entirely different. The examples you gave are flawed because you seem to have confused 'murder' with 'killing'.

Originally posted by Jesse
im not saying murder is justified, becaue it never is. but there is not one person in this world who hasn't murdered, they may step on an ant or bug KILLING it or kill a blade of grass.

No. Murder is a moral classification applied to the amoral action of killing. As a moral category, it presupposes conscious volition, as morality cannot be applied in situations where its subjects have no choice over how they act. Stepping on a bug is not a conscious choice (nor is it avoidable) hence the situation lies outwith the realm of morality and the classification 'murder' cannot apply. People cannot be held morally accountable for actions which they have no control over.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Nodrog
then the statement "America is king of the world and can do what it pleases" is perfectly rational as it is completely in accordance with reality.

Oh, I thought you were justifying it. Bad wording.

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Sub
Iraq is a terrorist group now?



That must be one heck of a missile.

erm...according to the united states they are, they'll say anything to get back at therer enemy

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Terra Australis
Canada would not fall, as you are surrounded by Alaska and then the U.S

Besides it would take a hell of an invasion fleet to invade Canada which mind you would be spotted since there is a large U.S presence in Japan.

Think about it, with all the bases that the U.S has scatted throughout the pacific any invasion fleet that would be launched to invade Canada and subsequently the U.S, would be attacked by Long Range Bombers carrying cruise missiles, Submarines, Surface warships, carrier Borne aircraft, then eventually shore launched aircraft.

The chances of such a fleet reaching Canada undetected about zilch.

Think of how many ships were involved in the d day landings, then imagine how many ships carrying men would be required to take out the Canada and then the U.S.

Canada join the iraqis with what?

You dont have much of an army to start off with?
Why would you when you are next to a world super power, and have there northern territory above you and there homeland below you.
Not to mention that you are surrounded by ocean.
A pretty good defence in itself.

I have talked to a mate in Canada, and he said the military that Canada possesses is a joke.

our military is small, and we stay low profile but in no way is it a joke, if we decide to join the war than you aoll will see our power, oh, i have said too much already but you'll find out(mabey)

[Jesse]

Originally posted by Grind
first, learn how to spell TERRORIST.



how is this different than the united states killing to protect it's country and citizens?

if the states didn't provoke all those people than do you think they would still bomb them. if you knew of the position of the terrorist's than you would know that they do this because binladin or some high religius guy said that commiting suicide is how you get to heaven, and the more people you take with you the closer a place you get to god. so they look for the most hated among the world, the US.

and thanks, im a bad speller hehe


how is this different than the united states killing to protect it's country and citizens?

well if i poked a lion with a stick, than don't you think it would attack me? it would because it is easly provoked, the us has just poked the lion while its hungry, so it gets rid of a provoker and gets a meal, but at a cost i do say, it has become a threat to people (us) so they must extingush the lion, but its going to fight back isn't it!!

well its the same with the states and iraq!..

[Terra Australis]

Originally posted by Jesse
our military is small, and we stay low profile but in no way is it a joke, if we decide to join the war than you aoll will see our power, oh, i have said too much already but you'll find out(mabey)

Maybe is spelt like this BTW.

Lets see it this way Canada joins a hypothetical war against the U.S

Fighters from Alaska head down to bomb key installations and power stations, Military command posts etc.

Stealth fighters from the U.S bomb more key installations cutting Canada's Military infrastructure.

Tanks stream across the U.S, Canada border into Canada.

An airborne cavalry unit launches an offensive into Canada, capturing a key strategic point, setting up a forward base of operations, this allows for more heavy artillerly to be landed.

Apache gunships that were involved in this landing now have a base of operations with which to hunt down Canadian reinforcements.

A Naval taskforce consisting of Marines sails up the coast of Canada and launches a naval invasion.

A carrier Battle group from Pearl Habour has steamed to link up with this fleet a few days earlier, and is now supporting the Invasion.

Canada is now facing a three pronged attack, one from the South, the forward base which is recieving airdrops to continue its operation.

Tanks smashing through from the South, simulataneous air attacks from the Northern territory of Alaska, and also the U.S Itself.

Air superiority is achieved all aircraft conduct ground attack operations.

Alaska is reinforced and by a Naval taskforce consisting of more Marines in a second fleet, this fleet Reinforces the Alaskan Penninsula, and then an Invasion commences from Alaska down into Canada.

Thus bringing a 4 pronged attack, now, thus making 25% of the forces available to defend each sector under attack, and ruining any chance of a viable counterattack being launched.

Not to mention that the fact that all military infrastructure would be taken out, by either Cruise Missile or stealth fighter.... then conventional aircraft, once command centres have been taken down... Thus within the first half an hour, There would be no radar, no command centres etc, to mount an effective resistance...