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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 12:36   #101
lokken
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
I'm not saying that GD should be run as a democracy or a court, I do however think that there are enough responsible users for it to get by without intervention*, which I see as desirable.
While some seem to think no other users exist on this forum, this is not true. This is a public forum, associated with a browser game. Many of said users of browser game read but do not post here, you do not know them, you can't vouch for their responsibility.

Quote:
If furball was so aware that trust was important then he shouldn't have used his powers when it was uneccesary to do so. Especially on a forum where he isn't a mod. The more people see decisions being made without evidence, or, more importantly, where discretion could easily have been used without ill-effects - then the worse it is going to be for the "trust" GD users have for him. There are a significant number of users who have posted in this thread as dissatisfied with what has taken place, and if you don't see this as an undesirable outcome then I don't know what to say.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in my eyes helping out by banning what is an obvious adbot, and if requested, saying why it was banned and the fact that it showed all the signs and signatures of being an adbot, (which it did and you do not doubt below). I have banned such accounts previously myself and no GD mod has objected.

What i do not believe is justified is intervening to any extent beyond accounts like this. You freely admit that this is an adbot (and thus presumably banned). furball made the same judgement and used his mod powers to help out. I don't see what is unjustified on acting upon what you believe to be a fundamentally correct assessment. Slippery slope does not apply here as if furball went beyond that, rest assured a GD mod would have flown off the handle at furball and his life on the mods forum would be pretty difficult right now -but rightly so, it is a non issue.

Quote:
I never really doubted that he was an adbot, that doesn't change the principle. Tomkat and myself have attempted to explain this to you numerous times, both on the forums and on irc, so I'm not going to bother trying again.

To denigrate our protest by suggesting that we wished him to stay simply because he was "entertaining" is completely missing the point again. It's not about there being a positive outcome due to him staying, it's about the negative outcome created through the heavy-handed use of power.
To me this is no more than a handful of GD users trying to be clever. If you find it insulting, well hard cheese really. Ad bots are universally unwelcomed, to ban them according to the rules to me is totally uncontraversial and just part of helping the forum run well.

Quote:
I reserve the right to show a disrespect for the rules in place whenever I disagree with them, thankyou very much.
If furball applies the rules as they are meant to be applied, this is justice. By all means disagree with rules, but the suggestion that a mod is being unjust when he applies the rules properly does not seem to be the appropriate description.

Quote:
You're going to have to qualify your use of the word "absurd" before I address the point in your last sentence I think. If you pointed out what exactly was absurd about my argument, I'll happily reply.
Oh, all of it is absurd, simply because there is no argument aside from "I don't like mods banning the obvious because I want a specific person doing it" when actually it doesn't matter a fig who does it in this scenario.

I don't think furball is interested or would consider himself suitable to mod this forum beyond advertising, which is a universal issue, on every forum - modding the content of other posts away from this forum is a totally different ballgame, because we have a totally different userbase and job description.

Alternatively I could make better posts like the Jakiri post above
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 13:19   #102
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

I shan't post any more on the topic* now, it seems to me that we have a fundamentally different idea of what the best thing is for this forum, and we're simply batting the same points back and forth now.

*Unless something or other fires me into an internet rage, but that isn't too likely to happen.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 13:29   #103
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Just to add I dont have a problem with furball modding, my problem was the way we treat new people. I believe here at GD we could all be mods and the place would run fine.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 16:32   #104
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Just to add I dont have a problem with furball modding, my problem was the way we treat new people. I believe here at GD we could all be mods and the place would run fine.
I agree. In some of my previous posts it might have come across as if I had a personal problem with furball - which I don't.

This argument is futile because (as Henry said) we have different ideas of how the forum should be run. I'm very much for the laissez-faire approach and that is why I've stuck around and grown to love this place. If I see something that looks like it's going against that approach then I'll voice my opinion.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 16:39   #105
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Just to add I dont have a problem with furball modding, my problem was the way we treat new people. I believe here at GD we could all be mods and the place would run fine.
I believe if everyone on GD was a mod there would be approximately, oh, lets see now, zero? people left unbanned approximately 10 picoseconds after JJ had finished clicking the 'make mod' button.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:16   #106
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

I've been away since Sunday, got back this afternoon. PM me for the rest of my life story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Closing the thread would have been fine (and almost expected). It wasn't going anywhere.

Editting his original post would have been fine - it's a very "GD" thing to do.

Banning a user straight out is NOT what GD does.

If banning was the only thing furball could do to counteract this, then he should have waited for a GD mod to come on and fix it. It's hardy like GD would explode from the one post from the shit poster in the meantime, is it?
I have thread and post-specific mod powers on only AR and AD (at the moment). That means that I couldn't close the thread, edit his post or do anything else along those lines. Banning users, however, covers the entire forums. Besides, since he was obviously an advertising/spambot, a ban was the appropriate action to take anyway.

Quote:
I think the icing on the cake is that furball made a point about Marv doing this, when in many ways what he has done is worse. Marv isn't a GD mod. Neither is furball.
Tom, what were you thinking when you made this part of your post? Pretty disappointing.

I'll quote from myself to show the difference between (a) me, as a forum mod, banning a forum user, and (b) a PA-Team member with automatic mod powers editing forum users' posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
All forums mods have been made mods because of their posting history and experience. This experience is expected to provide the mod with an ability to make the right decisions and to use the mod powers (not just banning users - also thread and post management, e.g. deleting posts/threads) in an appropriate way for that forum.
Quote:
I think it would be fair to say that Marv does not have this experience.
Quite what is the issue here? I certainly have the GD experience - the last list of active GD users had me in 2nd or 3rd for the last 6 months.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It's a slippery slope down to power-hungry mods.
You know who else was power-hungry? Hitler, that's who.

Quote:
It isn't about "what my problem is". I haven't DONE anything except object. It's about "what furball's problem is and why he felt he had to jump in as quickly as possible to ban somebody".
Spambots and advertisers are standard fare on forums, which you, as some supermod on another forum (which you ecstatically pointed out to me) should know. A discussion had actually started in reply to the thread, so I suspect that if I had been a GD mod, I would have kept the thread open while still banning the advertiser. As a result, the fact that I couldn't close the thread anyway hardly matters at all.
Quote:
I don't remember seeing anything in his signature.
When a forum user gets banned their signature automatically stops showing - because of the problem with advertisers having links in their signatures and normal mods being unable to edit these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
If furball was so aware that trust was important then he shouldn't have used his powers when it was uneccesary to do so. Especially on a forum where he isn't a mod. The more people see decisions being made without evidence, or, more importantly, where discretion could easily have been used without ill-effects - then the worse it is going to be for the "trust" GD users have for him. There are a significant number of users who have posted in this thread as dissatisfied with what has taken place, and if you don't see this as an undesirable outcome then I don't know what to say.
There was plenty of evidence from a mod's point of view. His username was generic and had numbers in - a very common attribute of an advertiser/spammer. The post itself resembled one that would later be used to advertise a product once a discussion had been generated. Having experience of spotting these types of spammers, both in my non-mod days as an ordinary poster, and now as the big bad evil mod, all of the mental checkmarks were ticked. I went ahead and banned ('convicted'?) him of being a spammer who happened to have an extra brain-cell.

It's up to you whether you trust me or not. I can't make that decision for you. My record as a moderator really does speak for itself - and the proof that we've now seen that gameboy81 was a spammer should be enough to prove my awesomeness. If you've taken the decision not to like me despite this, so be it. You're hardly going to be sent off to re-education camps.

lokken replied to the rest of your post while I was away. I would comment further, but he's said everything that needs to be said. He is totally correct when he suggests scenarios where hypothetical actions of mine would be unacceptable - and I've been in this job long enough now to know exactly where the boundaries are. If we had a GD mod on 24/7, I would have pointed out the advertiser to them and left them to it. As I mentioned at the time, there were no other mods online when the thread was originally created.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:16   #107
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Unlike Tom and Deep i do have something against Furball. I hate him because he's ginger!
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:21   #108
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Unlike Tom and Deep i do have something against Furball. I hate him because he's ginger!
As the back of my head quite clearly shows, I'm not ginger either.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:28   #109
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

*sigh*
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:49   #110
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Look again!

Looks pretty ginger to me!

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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 17:52   #111
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Look again!

Looks pretty ginger to me!

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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 19:25   #112
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

I like to snort coke while dropping GLA sneak attacks and GPS scramblers on yo command center.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 20:06   #113
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Who's the emo?

Anyone here who wants to confess something?
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 22:11   #114
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Re: What Do You Like Drink While Gamming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It's up to you whether you trust me or not. I can't make that decision for you. My record as a moderator really does speak for itself - and the proof that we've now seen that gameboy81 was a spammer should be enough to prove my awesomeness. If you've taken the decision not to like me despite this, so be it. You're hardly going to be sent off to re-education camps.
I don't make decisions not to like people, it happens whether I decide it or not.

I don't dislike you though, if it makes you feel any better. Although I would question the empirical basis for your awesomeness.
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