Change in downtime procedure.

[Wandows]

With the "discussion" about the current downtime going on in planetarion discussion about the fairness of the current solution, i figured it might aswell be an idea to start a thread about suggestion changes to the downtime procedure to prevent problems like this in the future (thats what it is for after all).

The obvious problem is unscheduled downtimes and the solutions to them. Based on the game mechanics the only active parts of the game involved when doing a rollback are fleet missions, and to a smaller extent constructions and researches. So instead of closing the game completely and doing a automated fleet recall, why not create a seperated page which allows access to the 'critical' features and by that allow every player to apply their own choise about how they want their game to continue when ticks resume.

This page being a list of your fleets with the option of recalling them if you so wish (not sure if it should be instant recall, or normal eta back), but no option of launching any fleets anywhere. Next to that give the option to start a new research or construction if they aren't doing any at that time. Waves and Covert ops would obviously remain closed to prevent abuse or a unfair advantage, nor will there be a way to browse the game. This will put less pressure on PaTeam, because they only have to fix the bug and don't have to worry about giving a unfair benefit or whatever to a certain group of players, as every player will be responsible for his own end solution (there should be enough time after the rollback has been done to allow players to login and make their planet ready for the tickstart again)

[Makhil]

Common sense should prevail over procedures. I think the solution of the last problem was obvious but couldn't be implemented coz PA Team chose to hide behind the procedure.
If there is nobody to take command and make a sensible decision, at least there could have been a poll on the portal set during the 24 hours downtime to see what people were thinking.
Using 24 hours just to repeat: there's a procedure, there's a procedure, there's a procedure... is just a waste of time.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Wandows

This will put less pressure on PaTeam, because they only have to fix the bug and don't have to worry about giving a unfair benefit or whatever to a certain group of players, as every player will be responsible for his own end solution (there should be enough time after the rollback has been done to allow players to login and make their planet ready for the tickstart again)

I seriously don't see how a breakdown in the PA mechanics can be seen as a unfair benefit.

I would rather call it a benefit unexpected. Its not possible to foresee a downtime or a breakdown in the game, so this strikes me as something that is totally random and "fair" to everyone.

With the regards of the latest downtime the biggest complaints came from those who had fleets flying in attack, being mad since others had already landed.

Tough luck I'd say because the game isn't built to break down. Sometime it just happens. And I think that doing a full fleet recall and restart the game is only prudent and the right thing to do.

I'd also like to state that ALOT of the ones who complains here are people who bitched me for not seeing the alliance change before round 19 and not to complain when the proposition was put up. So pot kettle black at you all.

The downtime procedures were put up 6 weeks ago, so any "viable" complaints against it could have been held in all those 6 weeks, instead of deciding to be pissed about it when it suddenly happened and the downtime procedure went into effect.

[Rocko]

Originally Posted by Kargool

The downtime procedures were put up 6 weeks ago, so any "viable" complaints against it could have been held in all those 6 weeks, instead of deciding to be pissed about it when it suddenly happened and the downtime procedure went into effect.

Well it seems the majority of people didn't know they were there, OR maybe didn't UNDERSTAND the problems that could occur. so this SUGGESTION thread on the SUGGESTION forum, is here to help come up with, yes, you guessed it,. a SUGGESTION to amend these procedures,..
(once you START using capitals for some words, you just can't STOP,.. , sorry)

Anyway, as has been stated many times, the proedure won't keep everyone happy, no matter what it is,.. how ever, opening it up so MORE (damm it) people are happy, is the way forward. Or more importantly, less people are put out by it.
First off the game is broken, that's enough to anoy anyone, since this shouldn't occour anyway 20 rounds in,.. but it does, and we accept that. Further anoying half the community isn't the way forward.

So any procedure has to be satisfactory, for those attacking, deffending, have fleets incomming, on a timetable for research or constructions, so that the game could progress as normal.
A simple Restart 24 hours, etc etc,.. i think is fine, and by giving people the option to recall their fleets, saves them from being away to recall them when the ticks start.
Maybe also broaden this to the construction and research page, incase people we're initiaintg one of those at the time it stoped.

Those attacking now have the option to carry on and land, or not. Those with incs, still have to get people on at the right time to cover their incomming, but it gives them a slight advantage. Those on research/constructions get to imnitate them.
Anything else?

[Wandows]

Originally Posted by Kargool

random crap

Can't you just shut up or post something usefull? I'm posting this to improve upong the existing procedure. Incase you didn't know, procedures change everywhere all the time if they don't seem to be covering problems the right way. The thread on PD is where you can post the whining stuff you just did, this is a suggestion to improve, not a cry over spilled milk.

I posted this suggestion, to allow every single player to choose its own fix. The current solution will always benefit a certain group and mean problems for another. With downtimes you can't always ensure a fair process for everyone, but this is probably as close as you can get. Players will be able to decide for themselve i they want to keep on flying or recall their fleet. If you can't be online to recall the next day? you can recall. If you can be online, you can stay, no harm done either way, since players will be able to decide their own faith and thats what the game is all about. Rather then pushing them to a solution that they don't want, they become responsible and thus damage overall will most likely be reduced.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Wandows

I posted this suggestion, to allow every single player to choose its own fix. The current solution will always benefit a certain group and mean problems for another. With downtimes you can't always ensure a fair process for everyone, but this is probably as close as you can get. Players will be able to decide for themselve i they want to keep on flying or recall their fleet. If you can't be online to recall the next day? you can recall. If you can be online, you can stay, no harm done either way, since players will be able to decide their own faith and thats what the game is all about. Rather then pushing them to a solution that they don't want, they become responsible and thus damage overall will most likely be reduced.

I dont see this as something the PA team should use time or energy on, since it happens so rarely and that there are more important things to spend their time on.

Having a standard procedure as it is now is fair to everyone as I previously stated since its EQUAL for everybody. Sometimes you will have just landed when something like this occur, sometimes you're spot through without defence at eta 2 etc etc. I dont see how your fix will make the procedure any more fair. If someone doesnt choose to do anything, but someone else does, then it will be unfair for some and fair for some again, besides I see this as something that can be easily abused.

Oh and please, spare me the insults next time you want to start a creative discussion.

[MAsta_MArk]

As wakey has told me to "post more" i shall do so.

I think that if pa goes down then depending on how bad the damage is it should just be frozan in place with nothing changed, fleets recalled etc. Now if PA team cant fix it withing 3 ticks then it should go down for another 21 ticks, because 3 hours can be a long time to wait to recall a fleet if its 1am already. If something goes wrong with the resources, such as some people get 2x res then they should choose the easier option between giving everyone else 2x res or taking the extra res off the lucky ones who got double.
As for rollbacks only if something goes wrong and isnt noticed/fixed before the next tick or the ticker continues ticking when the game is in accessable. They should rollback to the tick before the problem started and restart the game the next day at the time of rollback. eg rollback to 5pm GMT, game restarts at 5pm the next day.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Wandows

This page being a list of your fleets with the option of recalling them if you so wish (not sure if it should be instant recall, or normal eta back), but no option of launching any fleets anywhere.

So you allow attackers 24 hours to save their ships but if you have incoming your not able to set your ships to safety. If your not recalling fleets then you have to allow for people to be able to run their ships and not just in a small 1 hour window before ticks start.

If we apply your idea to this rounds situation, i had ships worth around 5mill of resources when the crash happened. Now lets say I had incoming the tick before the crash and I sent my ships away. The game goes to tick, my fleet is safe but it crashes.

It rollsback a tick and will restart the same time tomorrow but my schedule's different and i cant get online. I know for 24 hours my fleet is dead and i cant do anything about it. Accounting for the fact that i would lose 25% of my roids to regain the resources to rebuild my ships would take another at least another 75 ticks. Thats 3 days where i don't have many ships to defend and my attack fleets decimated and grounded for a couple of them. And it could be worse if it was later in the round

Now fine if someone gets their fleet caught at base normally thats their own fault but when its imposed on them by the game thats very harsh.

The problem is if you allow ships to be sent away then people can defend, already people can sort defense by finding people to cover the call that are certain they will be around but you'd then open it up for anyone to set a defence mission up which hinders attackers further

I guess if extra code was being done to allow the limited access system they could maybe restrict launches to defence missions to 1:1 so you could send your ships away but not setup defence missions which may help

Whatever way though there HAS to be a way for people to send their ships away if theres no full recall

[Rocko]

on the other hand, i've been denied, about 500-600 XP, by the game crashing, and my fleets being recalled,.. 40k of score, that i've been robbed of by the game crashing? that's just the same as loosing 40k

im not saying either should happen, i think neither should,... so lets discuss,..
have an option to send your fleet away,... why not,... (possibly somthing that should be allowd in normal game controls anyway,.. a, send fleet or hide fleet, which protects those at bace,.. maybe thats another thread :P)

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Rocko

on the other hand, i've been denied, about 500-600 XP, by the game crashing, and my fleets being recalled,.. 40k of score, that i've been robbed of by the game crashing? that's just the same as loosing 40k

I will point out that you lost that once, losing your fleet loses you that score and then loses you the ability to make that score for the next few nights

tbh though I'm still not sure that even with a way of sending the fleets away its really ideal.

We need to know what happens in the event of something going wrong when dealing with software and hardware things will go wrong and normally at unsuitable times and hanging around waiting for someone in PATeam to turn up and say whats going to happen is just a waste of everyones time but even with this setup if it had happened a few hours earlier we would have had the same people complaining. As it was it happened when most people had landed or were under eta5 move it back 3 or 4 ticks and suddenly all those people under the galaxy defence time can now be defended and you have 24 hours to get defended (and with most alliances tools this shouldn't be too hard if its been reported)

Now they all run a much greater chance of having to pull attacks and lose out while those that were under eta 5 or landed gain like they did now.

As such I cant help but think some tweaks to the current system would be best

• All returning fleets stay as they are
• All outgoing fleets are recalled
• Outgoing defenders are all rewarded with a full defence xp compensation award (maybe also some resources)
• Outgoing Attackers are compensated with a pre decided XP and roid compensation award
• Game is locked down till bug is fixed, games then rolled back and login reopened
• Ticks will start 24 hours after hour of the rollback rick
• Communication pages are open to use at all times (alliance pages, galaxy forum, mail and such like). Scans, missions ect ect are locked out
• 1 hour before ticks start all pages unlocked

While the attacking compensation would see some people gain more than they would have, and others less as id imagine for ease it would have to be a static figure (unless something code be coded to work out the max gains the planet would have made and award a percentage of that it would mean that no-one was being totally screwed

[Ultimate Newbie]

Perhaps if Fake Defence only was enabled with wandows' proposal, that is a happy middle ground; players who are getting FC can run their fleet, however any defence inbound launched at that time would be known to be fake, and thus attackers wont loose. Assuming you have JGP scans anyway.