Planetarion Forums

Rocko · 22 Jun 2005, 00:42

Lets scrap the build up and cut to the chace
How about if Ziks dont always steal,... maybe on a 50:50 split they destroy instead,...
give them a "bit" better init time,.. maybe up fire power Slightly,.. but ultimatly this shud cut those MAssive zik fleets in half, yet STILL let them gain slightly,..
While im saying things before explaining, perhaps this can incorprate the new fad of an idea for a strcuture to protect structures,..
A construction that fires last, but "Tracker beams" Strucutre killers only, some times stealing some times destroying,....

The worst thing about deffending from a Zik, is that they steal your ships,.. the gain from it is more then salvage costs of them ships being destroyed, and then u add the fact that u know someone else has your fleet that you built,...
By having them destroy the ships half the time,.. they r still providing a use, but there gain is chopped down, since they wud only get the resources for instead of the ships themselves.

IF i destroy a 6k Frig fleet, then the salvage i get is Way less then if a zik captures half of that,... but if they have to split their gain between salvage and the ships they steal,.. then they wont become so big and scary,.. welll some still will, but you'd get more of a balance of races in the top 50-100 then you had this round.

Also this 50:50 split shouldnt be exactly that ,.. so if 1k of frigs is hit,. 500 wont be stole and 500 destroyed, there shud be room for chance,.. maybe some times 800 is destroyed,.. or 800 stoel instead,.. letting Luck play a part,...

I dont know coding, so i dont know feasibility of any of this

This then comes into the Construction "tracker beam" idea,.. where sometimes it rips the ships apart, others it steals.
The person sending his structure killers then has to face that he's going to loose them, and may well find some of them comming back at him,.. ofcourse it depends how many strucutres there r, because calcs will be made, and people will know b4 they send how they face agasint the construction turrets,.. but then it comes down to people deciding if deffending their amps is better then building more,.. hmmmmmmmmmmm

Anyway, feel free to take it apart disect,..

furball · 22 Jun 2005, 00:53

There is one basic problem with a single race having stealing, unless its stealers die upon stealing:

After a 'successful' battle, a Zik will go up in value. No other race can do this. This is why Ziks have such an advantage, and all that you are changing is the time-scale upon which that becomes apparant.

Ultimate Newbie · 22 Jun 2005, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

No other race can do this. This is why Ziks have such an advantage, and all that you are changing is the time-scale upon which that becomes apparant.

Last round, as a Xan, i went up in value a few times (indeed, about half the time) when attacking. This was primarily because often the target fled as opposed to loosing 95% of their CO, and any losses that i did take from Pegs and Tarants (TBT were not popular with Ziks at the time) were overcome by the value of the Roids i took.

So, yes it can happen to other races

.

And even pushing out the time scale can have significant benefits - as top ranks wont be dominated by Ziks the whole time etc. Granted, it doesnt solve the problem, but it does make (most) of the round playable in a more balanced environment.

Gate · 22 Jun 2005, 08:35

It's a reasonable idea at first glance. I don't like the chance thing though. People should win because of their own skill, not just because they luckily stole 800 BS whilst a contender stole just 200 in exactly the same position...

Tietäjä · 22 Jun 2005, 08:58

Though, Gate, throughout the round of planetarion, there are a lot of factors from your first cap to your last, your first incomings to your last, your alliance winning or dying, that require some luck - or commitment from other people. It'll never be down to skill solely, last round luck perhaps played a lot larger factor. Through the whole round.

furball is very correct, though, and perhaps implementing such a system would even cause a boost in stealing as people would more likely stay defences as -- le't break him a bit, he'll only steal half.

It's not just the going up in value; it's the fact that you have an attack fleet that can repair it's losses and the defenders know it: you can land on haywired situations where no other race could even consider landing. You might land for good roids, even if it would bite off a quarter of your fleet; a zik could land on good roids, even if it'd bite off half his fleet; he'd steal back a quarter. In reality, the zikonian attack fleets were the kind that you needed to kill a very significant portion (even more than half) of to actually cover the incomings, or have significant zero-loss defences to hedge it out.

Ultimate Newbie · 22 Jun 2005, 09:14

And fleet scans were also very handy with Zik incoming :\. more so than, Xan FI for example (yes Jester, i know you faked some Xan FI as FR etc, but i mean generally).

Lοki · 22 Jun 2005, 10:55

First, Luck is about the easiest thing to code. Even I can do it

It requires like ONE line of coding

About the idea:
/me adds this to the list of making Zik less overpowered.
I think we should bother about making the caths better now...

Rocko · 22 Jun 2005, 11:22

Perhaps a similar idea for caths,... half the time they freeze, half the time they destroy,...
Thus no changes to ships or stats,..

furball · 22 Jun 2005, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocko

Perhaps a similar idea for caths,... half the time they freeze, half the time they destroy,...
Thus no changes to ships or stats,..

Someone hasn't been taking their medication...are you mad?

Luck was one of the things that people hated most about the old game - especially when scanning for asteroids at the round start? Used 10 asteroid scans and only got 2 roids? This wasn't a good thing, I don't want to bring it back.

It may be easy to code, but it doesn't make it a better idea

Lοki · 22 Jun 2005, 20:09

Caths are bad enough this way. Don't make it worse. EMP is stronger than killing, right?

ChubbyChecker · 22 Jun 2005, 21:31

The best idea I've seen for reducing the power of stealers is to make it impossible to have zero-loss defence with them. This was done with the Marauder and the Pirate for the speed round by changing the ships they target. Obviously this will go a long way to reducing the power of stealing since steal ships shoot after kill ships.

Tietäjä · 23 Jun 2005, 10:16

Yes, ChubbyChecker. I've been trying to say it to certain people for quite a while now, concerning the new stats being made. And you can call myself fairly familiar with zikonian race as it stood last round.

Generally, I think steal ships are best when they are off-pod class, and target ships that target them. At that point, they are mostly useful primarily for defences (even if capable "harvesting" for a podclass), and they get maimed before they get to the stealing business.

When you have one of them in an attack fleet, though, you are in the danger zone of making a juggernaught. Attack fleet steal ships should be complementative (like scorpion) rather than essentials (buccaneer). Why? Because when they become essentials, you'll end up thinking, on the DC channel, how huge a chunk do you have to eat off his fleet to get him recall? It's a big lump enough said. Also, he'll then bite off (especially if we are talking about essential defences, such as arrowheads) a fair chunk off the defenders for his own purposes as granted.