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Unread 6 Jul 2010, 23:25   #1
Kargool
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Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

There seem to be a lot of newer player getting the research lab system mixed up. A lot of people seem to think they have to build 20 research labs instead of keeping it at 20% of current constructions.

I can't honestly think of any reason to have more than 10 research labs. So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?

Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
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Unread 6 Jul 2010, 23:38   #2
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

It says 20% right on the package, not 20. I do not wish to cater to people who refuse to read. By the way, just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't any. Stop telling us how to play the game.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 10:50   #3
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

The game shouldn't stop you from making a mistake, but it should warn you before you do so.

I can't see warnings as a bad thing in the various cases it would gimp your planet, however I think the only issue would be that it needs time spent developing it.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 11:41   #4
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

No. No, it should not. If I choose to build nothing but spiders, I don't want the game yammering every time I place an order for more. If I research scans and nothing else, I don't want to see messages recommending that "Hey, dude, get some ships yo!". If I build dists only or FCs only or mines only, I don't want big red exclamation marks in my screen telling me of the folly of my ways. Don't treat us like kids. Give us the responsibility to make the choices and then we'll deal with the consequences.

And so what if someone builds 20 ship yards or reslabs? Do you honestly think things like that would ruin someone's round? It doesn't, it's a minor annoyance at worst.

(Some numbers: 181 people with more than 10 reslabs, 38 with more than 20, 4 with more than 30, 0 with more than 40.)
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Last edited by Appocomaster; 7 Jul 2010 at 15:39.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 12:59   #5
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

Again an attempt to explain how to make the game more accessible to new players which is bashed down by an über pro pa gamer who doesn't want to be told how to play the game....
PA is so funny..
Stop moaning and don't yell on any small suggest that wouldnt even affect you. I don't understand why you even oppose this suggestion as you clearly aren't a noob but this suggestion was made to stop noobs making mistakes.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 13:12   #6
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
There seem to be a lot of newer player getting the research lab system mixed up. A lot of people seem to think they have to build 20 research labs instead of keeping it at 20% of current constructions.

I can't honestly think of any reason to have more than 10 research labs. So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?

Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
Your 'research' shows that the method at which people are told they need 20% of current constructions in research labs for maximum bonus needs to be changed. Not that there needs to be a limit, people going different strats may need more.. I built 14 in a previous round and got laughed at for doing it (even though i was top3 most the round ).
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 15:11   #7
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

While I cannot agree with the flaming attitude taken by Mzyxptlk, I do agree with his argument that just because a newbie can make a tactical error isn't sufficient reason to limit the flexibility of the game in a way that does not stop an exploit.

The simple fact that a good reason cannot be given why someone would want to build a lot of labs/factories/other construction type, doesn't mean such a reason doesn't exist, or might not exist in the future.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 15:25   #8
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
The game shouldn't stop you from making a mistake, but it should warn you before you do so.

I can't see warnings as a bad thing in the various cases it would gimp your planet, however I think the only issue would be that it needs time spent developing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Korsan, we're not talking about some obscure subtext deep in the ****ing manual here, dude. The explanation of what the thing is doing is right below the thing you're building. If you're going to sit there and not read what it is you're building, then I really can't be ****ing arsed to help you not be a retard.
It could be worthwhile developing an Ingame help/prompt that can also be turned on or off ingame via preferences so it helps new players keep playing PA whilst not annoying experience players.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 15:44   #9
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
It could be worthwhile developing an Ingame help/prompt that can also be turned on or off ingame via preferences so it helps new players keep playing PA whilst not annoying experience players.
You mean like this?

Research Laboratory
Increases the efficiency of your researchers by a percentage decided by your ratio of Research Labs / Total Constructions. Maximum bonus is reached at 20%, which you can obtain by having 2 Research Laboratories for every 10 Constructions.
[Always Hide/Show Descriptions]


if the games tells you quite clearly it caps at 20%, and people still build over that number, Research Labs are far from their worst problem.
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 16:15   #10
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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You mean like this?

Research Laboratory
Increases the efficiency of your researchers by a percentage decided by your ratio of Research Labs / Total Constructions. Maximum bonus is reached at 20%, which you can obtain by having 2 Research Laboratories for every 10 Constructions.
[Always Hide/Show Descriptions]


if the games tells you quite clearly it caps at 20%, and people still build over that number, Research Labs are far from their worst problem.
I was meaning something even a bit more user friendly for the new player that explained the implications like a working tutorial in some games like Age of Empires.

but also for example the population page could maybe be adapted / seperate one for constructions.

Area Output (change) Time (change)
Mining
Metal: 100,000 (0)
Crystal: 100,000 (0)
Eonium: 100,000 (0)
Research (RP) 164 RP (0) 42 ticks (0)
Construction 155 CU (0) 3 ticks (0)
Max Alert 90 (0)

that if you move the population it shows a predicted change which is more convient than going to http://game.planetarion.com/manual.p...rn=13643812265
and grabbing a calculator to work out predicted changes in pop

But one for constructions aswell where it could show you a forecast of your mining, research, security,

Where the game can work out if you queued a res lab. It can forecast your new Research points per tick
Where if you say queue a sec centre it will give an estimated new alert level once completed. rather than going to the manual and grabing a standard calculator to crunch the numbers. (this might be going off topic to a degree)

I'm happy with the status quo where you can build as many research/factories/amps/dists/sec as you like... However is there any harm in making it more user friendly for the new player?
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Unread 7 Jul 2010, 16:37   #11
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

Korsan, we're not talking about some obscure subtext deep in the ****ing manual here, dude. The explanation of what the thing is doing is right below the thing you're building. If you're going to sit there and not read what it is you're building, then I really can't be ****ing arsed to help you not be a moron.

Obviously I am not calling you a moron. All I'm saying is that I think it's bloody goddamn stupid if people (in general!) do not read about the stuff they're doing.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 7 Jul 2010 at 16:48.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 10:04   #12
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

mz, you are right. even n00bs can read...
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Unread 11 Jul 2010, 14:28   #13
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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The simple fact that a good reason cannot be given why someone would want to build a lot of labs/factories/other construction type, doesn't mean such a reason doesn't exist, or might not exist in the future.
I built 13 this round. As xan totalitarianism I found I needed them to keep up with the HCT research at the start of the round.
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Unread 12 Jul 2010, 10:01   #14
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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mz, you are right. even n00bs can read...
When has he not been right
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Unread 1 Aug 2010, 23:55   #15
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

why not just change the way it works and each res lab adds 3-5% to total RU. So the more you make the faster research becomes.
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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 02:48   #16
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
why not just change the way it works and each res lab adds 3-5% to total RU. So the more you make the faster research becomes.
/me KISSes MrLobster


(there'd still be people building 20+ of them though, when 10 would probably suffice)

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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 07:29   #17
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

an indication of your research lab efficiency should be easy to implement.
It would show a percentage next to the res lab construction, and would be easy to understand... you could even add color (green above 80%, red below 20%, yellow in between.
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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 11:00   #18
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
an indication of your research lab efficiency should be easy to implement.
It would show a percentage next to the res lab construction, and would be easy to understand... you could even add color (green above 80%, red below 20%, yellow in between.
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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 11:09   #19
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

why not just give each planet the perfect number of constructions, a perfectly balanced fleet and PL attacks to all the best targets for them. then, all the noobs will win the game without even doing anything and love it a stay. all PAs problems will be fixed and the world will be a better place.

alternatively, do something worthwhile which will actually increase the player base. These constant suggestions of making the game easier to more noobs stay are all a waste of time. making the game easier will not bring in new players, making the game more interesting will bring in AND retain new players.
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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 11:49   #20
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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These constant suggestions of making the game easier to more noobs stay are all a waste of time. making the game easier will not bring in new players, making the game more interesting will bring in AND retain new players.
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Unread 2 Aug 2010, 17:11   #21
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Exclamation Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
... So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?

Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
I would prefer another solution to this problem:

If you already have build the maximum # of structures, you should be able to remove one of your choice for the costs of building the last structure so that you then can build another type of structure, where you again have to pay the same costs.

This would allow everyone to correct errors he did in the early stages of the game ... and allow building up to 20% research labs ( 50 of 250 ) until he has researched everything he needs without having to ask someone to use structurekillers on his planet to get rid of them later in the game

MfG, MEX
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Unread 3 Aug 2010, 06:17   #22
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build

I agree with making the game simpler to understand - that doesn't mean make it easier necessarily.

Controlling multiple/every facet of the game forcing people to play in virtually the same way is not the way to go about it either.
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