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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 09:44   #1
Phalon
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[Football] If this were in England...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6326513.stm

...All English clubs would be suspended from Europe by Uefa, the national side would be ejected from Euro 2008 by Fifa and the clubs invilvoed would play all their games for the rest of the season behind closed doors.

Who's willing to believe anything near that extreme will happen to the racist, cheating Italians? Not me.

I know it's early days, 'wait and see' and all that but surely Italian football finally deserves the punishment it's been building up to for so long?

(Hung-over whinge-threads ftw)
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 10:50   #2
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Are you crazy? Why would anyone ban English teams like this? And since they called off the league games until it is decided what to do about the problem, I think there is some actual concern (at least from Italy's FA) and we might see some changes.
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 10:52   #3
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

nah, rubbish. when english clubs got banned it was a different era not controlled quite as much by TV and TV money. i highly doubt UEFA now has the stones to punish Italy or England.

I also dont know why Inter et al should be punished for the actions of a game that didnt involve them
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 11:01   #4
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Wouldnt be much of a point ejecting England from Euro 2008 now would it?.
The clubs might be english, but only a handfull of the players are.
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 11:12   #5
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
...All English clubs would be suspended from Europe by Uefa, the national side would be ejected from Euro 2008 by Fifa and the clubs invilvoed would play all their games for the rest of the season behind closed doors.
When the English clubs were suspended it was for violence at various European fixtures culminating in the tragedy at Heysel. It was also the English FA that made the decision to withdraw it's own clubs from Europe. The sanction was ratified and formalised by Uefa at a later date.
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 11:23   #6
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

http://football.guardian.co.uk/conti...src=rss&feed=1

ur wrong
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 11:42   #7
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

whos wrong about wot
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 11:55   #8
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
Who's willing to believe anything near that extreme will happen to the racist, cheating Italians? Not me.
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 12:18   #9
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6326513.stm

...All English clubs would be suspended from Europe by Uefa, the national side would be ejected from Euro 2008 by Fifa and the clubs invilvoed would play all their games for the rest of the season behind closed doors.

Who's willing to believe anything near that extreme will happen to the racist, cheating Italians? Not me.

I know it's early days, 'wait and see' and all that but surely Italian football finally deserves the punishment it's been building up to for so long?

(Hung-over whinge-threads ftw)
It wouldn't happen in England any more. In Italy it's been threatening to boil over for years, I mean there was someone killed before/during/after a Lazio/Roma game in the fairly recent past and Lazio are among the worst around.

Hopefully Italy will do what we did and tackle the problem head first. We had some terrible terrible years but England fans (regardless of how much I dislike them for being complete boneheads) have been widely regarded the best fans at Japan and Germany.

I don't believe in punishing clubs for hooliganism. Arresting fans and doing something about them is a far better idea. Obviously the downside is that you might end up with a league where the atmosphere is as sterile as the premiership.
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 12:21   #10
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

(to hebdomad, damn Lok typing faster...)we knew that from the first post...
(or has the BBC done that annoying thing where they add to stories rather than creating new ones?)
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 12:22   #11
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

(yeah I thought it was a rant about the Italian FA doing FA. My mistake)
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 12:32   #12
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken

We had some terrible terrible years but England fans (regardless of how much I dislike them for being complete boneheads) have been widely regarded the best fans at Japan and Germany.
absolute nonsense.

Most improved, certainly. to suggest anything more than that is ludicrous
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 13:11   #13
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
absolute nonsense.

Most improved, certainly. to suggest anything more than that is ludicrous
Sorry forgot the word 'among'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcu...00/2059405.stm
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Unread 3 Feb 2007, 20:19   #14
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Theres no doubt the situation has improved but the phrase 'english fans' is still synonymous with lager louts and hooliganism, in most sport.

We're kindly glossing over that riot in the square in Germany, but then, we were glossing over it at the time so why change the habits of a lifetime
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 00:05   #15
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Hooliganism wont be tackled by fining clubs, more surveillance or control, nor stopping games. It's a sign of a problem that goes deeper than just football. Sometimes it's politics (and it's often politics in Italy) and that might not be wrong, or it can be people who just are fed up and need to vent out (that can be very wrong).

Not all of Italy's clubs/hooligans are nazies or racists, in fact there is a major antifascist movement in some clubs. Of course there will be trouble if those groups meet, just like there will be trouble if the Headhunters and C18 meet Manchester United hooligans, if theres any left of those groups (I've only read about them in the 70'ies and the 80'ies). You wont get me to discredit anybody for trying to get racism or fascism out of the terraces, the streets or the governments of the world.

The other problem, ie venting out as I see most casuals today (at least up here) is something that stricter control wont fix, or at least only temporarily. A solution is too much for me to come up with or speculate on, but I've seen the effect of increasing the burden on these groups, and it's not been very effective or productive more the opposite.
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Unread 4 Feb 2007, 11:57   #16
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Re: [Football] If this were in England...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snurx
Hooliganism wont be tackled by fining clubs, more surveillance or control, nor stopping games.
This can prevent hooliganism at football matches though. When there is a high level of surveillance + police presence, people have to worry about being identified and arrested, fined, etc when they start trouble. In Germany this means that you see violence usually only in lower league matches, since security isn't as tight (Is this also the case in England? Just wondering).

The thing is, football fans are sort of a mirror of society, you get all the problems you have such as racism and pissed of people but in an environment where it's a bit more likely to come out. So yeah, unless these problems disappear on a larger scale, I guess they will still be there in football.
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