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20 May 2016, 18:12
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#1
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The evil stats guy
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 242
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R68 Shipstat proposals
Hey all,
Now that R67 shipstats are final, it's time to start looking towards R68 shipstats.
Anyone who wants to propose a set should do so in this thread. The weekend of 11-12 june i'll look at the base proposals that have been offered.
What fields do I expect the proposed set to have by than? - Shipclass
- T1,T2,T3
- Type
- Init
- Race
Again i don't expect the values in these fields to be final. They are meant to give a good impression of the kind of set you envision.
Finally I would also like your submission post to include a few lines in which you describe your set and the ideas behind it. No essay's please!
After the weekend of 11-12 june everyone will get a first feedback on his/her proposal from me and i'll select the set's that are in the running.
Prefered direction of the set i'm looking for (You are not required to follow these, but you get bonus points if you do): - A set with 4 races (you can pick which one you drop)
- No more than 2 ships / class / race (excluding pods, sk's and resource ships)
- 2 pod classes / race
- Maximum 8 combat ships / race (excluding pods, sk's and resource ships)
- MT or mixed MT/ST set
- Balanced set
- Steal ships can't chain steal into a class they can't naturally steal into or steal there own class
- You are not required to stick to traditional races ( 4 etd like races are allowed if you wanna do a set like this )
The goal is for appoco to announce R68's set as final at EORC. So people signing up to make a set should be aware they need to develop it during the round and not after the round has ended.
Good luck to everyone and looking forward to seeing some good submissions.
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21 May 2016, 01:34
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#2
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao
[*]You are not required to stick to traditional races ( 4 etd like races are allowed if you wanna do a set like this )
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Just close the game now and spare us the death throes.
This game with no back-story is just random numbers entered into a spreadsheet.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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11 Jul 2016, 18:05
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#3
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
This game with no back-story is just random numbers entered into a spreadsheet.
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is life but random numbers entered into a spreadsheet with a feeble story we all share built upon?
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
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21 May 2016, 03:31
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
You can't imagine a war between fewer than 5 races? After last round, one could easily make a case for the Terran race needing to recover from its devastating losses.
Besides, PA hasn't been about its story since what, 10 years now?
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21 May 2016, 09:10
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#5
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Yeah, the notion that PA survives because of its rich lore and detailed backstory is ludicrous, frankly.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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21 May 2016, 15:37
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#6
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
My point wasn't about the number of races but about the lack of any distinction between them.
And yes, I agree that the back story has been almost erased over the last few years - I'm just objecting to losing it altogether.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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24 May 2016, 06:31
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#7
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Anarchy Shadow
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nafferton, England
Posts: 324
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
1 race
Diverse tree like in past
__________________
EX
Legion, Fury, Xanadu, Wolfpack, NoS, TSU, LKSAB, Vgn, F-Crew, CT, Insomnia, Angels, VsN, Gross, Osiris, ROCK, XvX, Faceless, Unsullied, Haven, Carisan, RaGe, Carnage, Kittenz and EC
Currently
In ODDR Command
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24 May 2016, 14:56
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#8
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Put my "zikonia has fallen" set up for competition, herewith.
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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24 May 2016, 21:43
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 40
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
I don't understand why so restrictive other than being balanced? Why have zik not allow to steal into a main class? Given they don't get value bonus from steals anyway surely it's a strategy tactic?
__________________
Kez
R62 Rogues Rank 192
R63 Terra Rank 39
R64 Terra - defence duties
R65 Faceless - defence duties
R66 Faceless - rank 90 (inactive half of round)
R67 Norseman - Rank 26
R68 Norseman - Rank 19
R69 P3nguins - Rank 22 - Scanner
R74 Faceless - Rank 4
R75 Heresy - Rank 15
R76 RaGe - Rank 4 - defence duties
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24 May 2016, 23:05
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#10
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kez
Why have zik not allow to steal into a main class?
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I think you are misinterpreting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao
Steal ships can't chain steal into a class they can't naturally steal into or steal there own class
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Jintao does not mean that they cant steal into a 'main' class. Rather he means they are not allowed to steal into a class they cant already steal through stealing someone else's steal ships.
Lets say hypothetically Zik can steal into fi/co/de/bs, but not fr and cr. Etd then also has a steal ship that steals fr. That is fine. However it is not fine if that steal ship is a fi/co/de/bs ship as that would allow Zik to then steal on into a class that they cannot normally steal; fr. So that Etd ship stealing fr would have to be a cr ship (having ships steal themselves is not good so best not be fr!)
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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25 May 2016, 08:33
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#11
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
As far as I understand it, that is correct (but dumb).
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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26 May 2016, 05:35
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#12
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
As far as I understand it, that is correct (but dumb).
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i think its a useless restriction, that just makes designing stats harder
We got a MH-Team to prevent what this restriction shall do - rather have them investigate more instead
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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27 May 2016, 08:09
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
We got a MH-Team to prevent what this restriction shall do
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Right, because they're so effective when it comes to doing their jobs
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25 May 2016, 19:30
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
For example, the Widow this round will not be stealing because of this rule.
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27 May 2016, 12:41
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#15
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Its like saying that we need to remove pods because there is so many roid farms, or that cov-op should be removed as there is too much farming there
Ive been fighting the stats mafia for years now, and suddently now people are starting to see the real facists they are.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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27 May 2016, 18:22
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Though arguable before, ever since the ability to steal ships through covert ops was introduced, chain stealing has been a non-issue and is an unnecessary restriction.
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5 Jul 2016, 08:59
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#17
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
So?
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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5 Jul 2016, 23:09
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#18
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
I would like to see a return of stealers don't die (but not suffient gains to farm ships but enough to cap back most losses so that stealing ships can actually be attacking ships)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...WDo/edit#gid=0
A set where it has been beta tested, what it does need is a tweak to the stealing mechanisms..
For example zik cr is doable as an attack fleet if it can max cap 10% above the fleet values (and not go above this) and still can obtain this even when some of the fleet has been killed off (afterall most players play for value)
edit- a 100k zik cr fleet can't be bigger than 110k after combat.
a 100k cr fleet could lose 20k value (down to 80k value but able to cap back to 110k)
what this set brings to the table is that stealing can be viable in attacking again.
-edit using stats like these will add more dyamics to attack/def fleets as it will be down to capping value v damage given....
Take r14 stats as an example as to what stats can be like.
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
Last edited by Paisley; 6 Jul 2016 at 00:12.
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5 Jul 2016, 23:32
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#19
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
I would like to see a return of stealers don't die
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I think I don't need to list the reasons I don't like this.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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5 Jul 2016, 23:38
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#20
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I think I don't need to list the reasons I don't like this.
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humour me as to why?
stealing imo only has uses in defence and seldom in attack as it needs that killer kill ship in that class to make that fleet viable.
If farming is an issue I had made stealers fire after pods. So that blantant farming can be pulled up via MHs.
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 Jul 2016, 00:29
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#21
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
humour me as to why?
stealing imo only has uses in defence and seldom in attack as it needs that killer kill ship in that class to make that fleet viable.
If farming is an issue I had made stealers fire after pods. So that blantant farming can be pulled up via MHs.
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After the change in the farming rules, you cannot close anyone for farming if they arnt telling the MHs they are farming
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 Jul 2016, 06:15
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
humour me as to why?
stealing imo only has uses in defence and seldom in attack as it needs that killer kill ship in that class to make that fleet viable.
If farming is an issue I had made stealers fire after pods. So that blantant farming can be pulled up via MHs.
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Why should a none clean land give the same outcome as a clean land?
To me this makes no sense.
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6 Jul 2016, 07:42
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#23
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respect, unity, order
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 280
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
I would like to see a return of stealers don't die (but not suffient gains to farm ships but enough to cap back most losses so that stealing ships can actually be attacking ships)
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I don't think we need this. People know the drawbacks of zik, but still play it. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.
Obviously i'm not mentioning how this is just calling for ship-farming.
__________________
Together We Stand Divided We Fall
[Ðragons]
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6 Jul 2016, 13:48
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#24
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
I will wholeheartedly endorse any set of stats that encourages fleetcatching
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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6 Jul 2016, 14:27
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
I will wholeheartedly endorse any set of stats that encourages fleetcatching
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So would I, but that can easily be done without tampering with zik's stealrate.
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15 Jul 2016, 18:07
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#26
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
I will wholeheartedly endorse any set of stats that encourages fleetcatching
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motion seconded
too much NAPtarion for my liking
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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15 Jul 2016, 18:43
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 168
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
motion seconded
too much NAPtarion for my liking
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Jintao have his matrix and it will always be paper rock scissor as long as he's in charge.
We won't see any fun stats. Except the crazy set he's playing with
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15 Jul 2016, 22:38
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#28
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandvold
Jintao have his matrix and it will always be paper rock scissor as long as he's in charge.
We won't see any fun stats. Except the crazy set he's playing with
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I will be disappointed if he does
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 Jul 2016, 17:10
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#29
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Well tbh, 90% die rate wouldn't hurt.
There is no strong arguments against it
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 Jul 2016, 18:12
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Well tbh, 90% die rate wouldn't hurt.
There is no strong arguments against it
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TBH?!?
This is not the first time this subject has been brought up on the forums.
And there has been a lot of good points to support why it shouldn't be added.
So when you say "tbh"... I feel like smacking all those threads in your head.
(If it was physical possible)
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6 Jul 2016, 20:11
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
It's been a long time since we had stats with:
- feared Pegasus / Ghosts
- a good cloaked Ranger
- OP cath Co
What if we had a set with all the above?
__________________
mxy
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6 Jul 2016, 20:16
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#32
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
TBH?!?
This is not the first time this subject has been brought up on the forums.
And there has been a lot of good points to support why it shouldn't be added.
So when you say "tbh"... I feel like smacking all those threads in your head.
(If it was physical possible)
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Yeah, and i was one of the ones arguing for why 90% die rate wouldnt be that bad.
The only troublesome interaction was between steal vs steal, and im not sure if they can put that to 100% die rate.
If one of the top value planets this round was to steal with all his ship value, it would be a minor score jump for manage such a steal. 4 million value stolen adds 400k score, wich tbh, isnt much.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 Jul 2016, 20:28
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Steal ships not (entirely) dieing requires active multi hunters.
If there are none then ships donations will be even more common and more profitable.. (see latest xmas round)
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6 Jul 2016, 20:33
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#34
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram
Steal ships not (entirely) dieing requires active multi hunters.
If there are none then ships donations will be even more common and more profitable.. (see latest xmas round)
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last xmas round it was 0% die rate btw.
And that was mostly "friendly" crashes
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 Jul 2016, 20:40
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Yeah, and i was one of the ones arguing for why 90% die rate wouldnt be that bad.
The only troublesome interaction was between steal vs steal, and im not sure if they can put that to 100% die rate.
If one of the top value planets this round was to steal with all his ship value, it would be a minor score jump for manage such a steal. 4 million value stolen adds 400k score, wich tbh, isnt much.
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10% gain is A LOT when it will repeatedly be done through out the round.
The other races will need 10% higher income on avg to keep up with the ziks.
So what bonus'es does Cath, Xan, Ter and Etd have that makes up for that?
The Etd's can clearly abuse this aswell by massing their few steal ships they have available.
And round after round I hear people complain about "support" planets that only build 1 - 2 ships. You think this won't further push it into that direction?
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6 Jul 2016, 20:46
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#36
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
10% gain is A LOT when it will repeatedly be done through out the round.
The other races will need 10% higher income on avg to keep up with the ziks.
So what bonus'es does Cath, Xan, Ter and Etd have that makes up for that?
The Etd's can clearly abuse this aswell by massing their few steal ships they have available.
And round after round I hear people complain about "support" planets that only build 1 - 2 ships. You think this won't further push it into that direction?
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the whole idea is to give zik a compenastion for not being able to solo any races that has kill ships without losses... As you see in Paisleys stats, they only have steal ships.
And ter got higher CP, cath higher RP, xan cloak
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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11 Jul 2016, 17:58
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#37
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Mastermind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 430
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Zik works quite the same as a Terran race - they fire late. Instead of changing inits on Zik you could also solve balance issues with tuning their armour up by ~40
__________________
Community Leader
Last edited by Illuvatar; 11 Jul 2016 at 19:57.
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15 Jul 2016, 18:04
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#38
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
what I do want is a fun set of stats
the ones where you can do meta faking, soloing and no lolwaving etc
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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15 Jul 2016, 23:18
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#39
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
What round's stats would you like to see re-used?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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15 Jul 2016, 23:19
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#40
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
What round's stats would you like to see re-used?
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R14 but with modifications
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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15 Jul 2016, 23:20
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#41
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Oh.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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16 Jul 2016, 20:57
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#42
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao
Hey all,
Now that R67 shipstats are final, it's time to start looking towards R68 shipstats.
Anyone who wants to propose a set should do so in this thread. The weekend of 11-12 june i'll look at the base proposals that have been offered.
What fields do I expect the proposed set to have by than? - Shipclass
- T1,T2,T3
- Type
- Init
- Race
Again i don't expect the values in these fields to be final. They are meant to give a good impression of the kind of set you envision.
Finally I would also like your submission post to include a few lines in which you describe your set and the ideas behind it. No essay's please!
After the weekend of 11-12 june everyone will get a first feedback on his/her proposal from me and i'll select the set's that are in the running.
Prefered direction of the set i'm looking for (You are not required to follow these, but you get bonus points if you do): - A set with 4 races (you can pick which one you drop)
- No more than 2 ships / class / race (excluding pods, sk's and resource ships)
- 2 pod classes / race
- Maximum 8 combat ships / race (excluding pods, sk's and resource ships)
- MT or mixed MT/ST set
- Balanced set
- Steal ships can't chain steal into a class they can't naturally steal into or steal there own class
- You are not required to stick to traditional races ( 4 etd like races are allowed if you wanna do a set like this )
The goal is for appoco to announce R68's set as final at EORC. So people signing up to make a set should be aware they need to develop it during the round and not after the round has ended.
Good luck to everyone and looking forward to seeing some good submissions.
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I'm going to throw my hat into the arena whilst meeting the above criteria
(given up this round trying for stealers don't die)
I'm going to ask appoco for server access for a day to do EMP
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
My stats are influenced from different rounds and mashed together with a bit of thought (zik r42 is an example of this)
Race breakdown....
Terran can roid with de on...
caths/ziks/xan
Terran can roid with Bs on...
all races
Terran has no ally eta anti fi/co
Terran is open to fi/co/fr/bs inc.
Cath can roid with co on...
all races
Cath can roid with cr on...
all races
Cath is open to all inc subject to ship count
Emp for t1 is to be around the 150-170% eff mark
Xan can roid with fi on...
Terran/cath/zik
Xan can roid with Fr on...
Terran/xan/cath
Xan is open to terran/zik/cath/xan frig inc
Zik can roid with de on...
Cath/xan/zik
zik can roid with cr on...
cath/xan/zik
there is Good scope to meta fake on other races aswell
as I said I would do EMP when I get server access
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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16 Jul 2016, 22:38
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#43
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
I've recently been working on an offline bcalc and used it to create a new stats analysis tool, not based on heuristics like the last one ("Cathaar never roids Terran") but on the outcome of actual battles. If you have a non-Google link to your stats (pastebin?), I'll run your stats through it, see what it says.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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17 Jul 2016, 00:44
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#44
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I've recently been working on an offline bcalc and used it to create a new stats analysis tool, not based on heuristics like the last one ("Cathaar never roids Terran") but on the outcome of actual battles. If you have a non-Google link to your stats (pastebin?), I'll run your stats through it, see what it says.
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Where u hiding it?
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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17 Jul 2016, 10:32
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#45
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
once ive done emp (took me about 2 hours to make a beta stats emp work the last time I was in the server) I might take you up on that Mz
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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19 Jul 2016, 13:32
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#46
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
Last edited by Paisley; 19 Jul 2016 at 13:47.
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19 Jul 2016, 16:58
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#47
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Error
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 359
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
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quick look, but the pegasus and clippers a.c d.c are both done??
edit: tbh looks like u want a very offensive set of stats... i sux looking into it, but almost all att classes pre fires def class...
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#braSilFTW
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19 Jul 2016, 17:49
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph
quick look, but the pegasus and clippers a.c d.c are both done??
edit: tbh looks like u want a very offensive set of stats... i sux looking into it, but almost all att classes pre fires def class...
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This is how it has to be with so much defense readily available these days.
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BOOM
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19 Jul 2016, 23:12
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#49
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadoc
This is how it has to be with so much defense readily available these days.
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I thought they were gonna remove the feature...
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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19 Jul 2016, 17:01
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#50
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R68 Shipstat proposals
Here's the output of my new and improved stats analysis tool:
Short: contains only 'immune' or 'vulnerable' for each fleet to every other fleet.
Long: also contains the value change after each possible battle.
Full: also has the full brep of each possible battle.
My analysis tool works as follows.
An algoritm is used to create a reasonable (not "perfect", whatever that is!) fleet composition around each pod. For each pod that is selected, first all the escorts for that pod are added (more downward than upward firing ships) and then the remaining targetting gaps are filled with defense ships. Value distribution is roughly 2/3 attack fieet, 1/3 defense ships, for 1m value total. For example, for Ter De, 568 Demeter are built as pods, 35926 Pegasus and 11468 Chimera are added as escorts, and 10417 Phoenix, 4187 Syren, 3333 Wyvern and 3193 Dragon fulfill the role of defense ships.
Each fleet is then pitted against every other fleet, with the following modification: the value of the defender is reduced to 70%, to take into account that people mostly either attack downward or team up. When a fleet is attacked by another fleet, the defender has a choice of which ships to defend with. Because I could not figure out a way to determine the best possible outcome for the defenders in advance, I just simulate all options. Each ship that fires at the given attacker is tried individually, with and without flak. Afterwards, all defense ships that fire at the given attacker are used together, again both with and without flak. See Mosquito vs Illusion for an example where the defender has a choice between no less than 8 fleet compositions: flakked and unflakked Phantom, flakked and unflakked Ghost, flakked and unflakked Peacekeeper, and flakked and unflakked Phantom + Ghost + Peacekeeper. Flak in this context is 1) all 'useless' ships that are in the same class as a 'useful' defense ship (classic flak) and 2) all ships that the attacker doesn't kill or steal (covers 0-loss defense and EMP flak). T2 flak is not tried (sending Phantom to flak for Harpy against Ghost, for instance).
This results in a number of possible battles, which I run through a homegrown bcalc.
If all of these battles would result in the attacker choosing to land, then that means the defender is vulnerable to being roided by the attacker. On the other hand, if one or more of them would result in a reasonable attacker choosing to recall, then the defender is immune to being roided by the attacker, because that's obviously the combination of defending ships the defender would pick. Whether or not the simulated attacker is willing to land depends on how much the they lose compared to the defender, as well as the outcome of !roidcost: the more the defender loses, the more the attacker is willing to lose. However, I find that 80%-90% of lands are no contest: they are either nearly lossless for the attackers, or total massacres in the defender's favour.
In the Mosquito vs. Illusion example above, all 8 possible choices for the defender are lossless for the attacker, so Illusion is vulnerable to Mosquito. The same is not true for the very next matchup, Mosquito vs. Vampyre, in which the attacking Mosquito fleet needs about 71 ticks (roidcap of 200, Corp, 30 FCs) to recoup its losses and the defenders gain 11k value to boot (standard salvage).
The weakest aspect of my simulator is the fleet compositions. The program doesn't make straight-up stupid choices, but sometimes they could be more optimal. For example, if you're going Ter De, you might prefer building Harpy (makes ally def ETA) rather than splitting your value between Syren (T2 overlaps with Chimera) and Wyvern. Or you might not, because having both Wyvern and Dragon (which you need anyway) gives you 2 roiding fleets. There are choices to make that depend on more than just the raw data in the stats sheet and the user should be given the option to make those choices.
The format of the output also isn't the greatest.
No teamups, neither for attack nor defense: too much work.
[edit] I think I fixed all the formatting errors in my links now, plus I included the fleet compositions the program decides on.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 19 Jul 2016 at 17:21.
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