Politics

[HaNzI]

We all know the last week of PA is coming soon, and there is another war in the horizon. I suggest we write on this thread, who is at war, and who has NAPs. This will make it easier for everyone, including those who doesnt play, to understand what is really going on.
Luckily i find myself loved and trusted enough to know whats going on, but when i have spoken to members in other alliances they dont even know who they are hitting!

so lets get it all out in the open!

[HellKicker]

i have so much to say but i'm afraid i might get banned

[[ND]Byrney]

Originally Posted by HaNzI

We all know the last week of PA is coming soon, and there is another war in the horizon. I suggest we write on this thread, who is at war, and who has NAPs. This will make it easier for everyone, including those who doesnt play, to understand what is really going on.
Luckily i find myself loved and trusted enough to know whats going on, but when i have spoken to members in other alliances they dont even know who they are hitting!

so lets get it all out in the open!

So what you've done here is made a thread asking people to say what's going on and not actually posted anything about what's going on? Despite being very much 'in the loop' by your own admission?

Great thread!

[Knight Theamion]

ND gaves Ascendancy the 48 hour warning.

[Gate]

ND/Asc NAP is ending, amirite? I'd like to know what tick it ends, and who's on who's side.

This looks like ND's only chance at the round win and I'm glad they've taken it. It's been a great round so far and ND have acted to keep up its high quality. <3

Best of luck everyone: whoever takes the win will absolutely deserve it.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Gate

whoever takes the win will absolutely deserve it.

That's a bit of a non-statement. Since it already has been discussed previously that because we have an objective 'score'-system, anyone winning 'deserves' it.

As for the quality of the round. Yes I am liking it, a lot, although I do have some 'questionmarks' at some political decisions. I wonder what Conspiracy Theory and Omen will now do. When NewDawn 'chickened' out so to speak after Jonny's epic post and 'The Ascendocaust' stopped, it sealed the faith of Omen and CT. I wonder if they (and Vengeance) will now side with NewDawn to give them an easy ride or do a proper '**** you' now that their chances of winning or slim to naught.

I really wonder how Omen or Conspiracy Theory could motivate their members to fight another ones war. The only one I can think of is 'denying Ascendancy the round win', which
a) Isn't a sure thing, last time I saw NewDawn was in the lead and ceteris paribus would win
b) odd, because whatever you think of of Ascendancy, up untill now we played a pretty good fight, even the likes of Zoro and Junglemuffin must agree to that.

[Munkee]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

That's a bit of a non-statement. Since it already has been discussed previously that because we have an objective 'score'-system, anyone winning 'deserves' it.

As for the quality of the round. Yes I am liking it, a lot, although I do have some 'questionmarks' at some political decisions. I wonder what Conspiracy Theory and Omen will now do. When NewDawn 'chickened' out so to speak after Jonny's epic post and 'The Ascendocaust' stopped, it sealed the faith of Omen and CT. I wonder if they (and Vengeance) will now side with NewDawn to give them an easy ride or do a proper '**** you' now that their chances of winning or slim to naught.

I really wonder how Omen or Conspiracy Theory could motivate their members to fight another ones war. The only one I can think of is 'denying Ascendancy the round win', which
a) Isn't a sure thing, last time I saw NewDawn was in the lead and ceteris paribus would win
b) odd, because whatever you think of of Ascendancy, up untill now we played a pretty good fight, even the likes of Zoro and Junglemuffin must agree to that.

everyones going to pile on to asc... fact

[ATRO]

Originally Posted by Munkee

everyones going to pile on to asc... fact

The ramifications of that post on your future memberbase would be interesting to note. Doesn't really strike me as anything other than childishness to be perfectly honest.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

That's a bit of a non-statement. Since it already has been discussed previously that because we have an objective 'score'-system, anyone winning 'deserves' it.

Some say that anyone who ends with top score 'deserves' it, I prefer to see the winning ally do some exciting stuff.

ND haven't had to war as hard as Asc/Omen. They've been intelligent with their engagement and didn't implode their chances like CT did but if they'd ended up winning by roidracing from now to the end I'd have felt unsatisfied. Fighting off Asc in the last 2 weeks (if they manage to do so...) feels more worthwhile.

Originally Posted by Game^

I am wondering what DLR's involvement will be also, considering that Elviz is getting closer to Gate for #1 planet.

As far as I understand it, DLR's 3 main priorities are:
1) Have fun
2) top alliance avg score
3) as many t100 planets as possible

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Gate

2) top alliance avg score

Probably should have mentioned that one to CBA to be honest!

[Achilles]

And this is *exactly* why CT never win anything.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by Achilles

And this is *exactly* why CT never win anything.

I'm confused at what you believe CT should do?

They are afterall only 7 million behind Asc as it stands, Newdawn and Asc are about to fight it out (1 on 1 lets face it Asc wins everytime), however if CT manage to peg back Asc with Newdawn, Asc will naturally peg back Newdawn and CT should get very minimal incomings through it. You guys have already stated you would ONLY attack the strongest alliance, so what that means in reality is that every alliance can hit Asc, and Asc will only hit Newdawn. CT could find themselves back in the race...

I am wondering what DLR's involvement will be also, considering that Elviz is getting closer to Gate for #1 planet.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Game^

I'm confused at what you believe CT should do?

They are afterall only 7 million behind Asc as it stands, Newdawn and Asc are about to fight it out (1 on 1 lets face it Asc wins everytime), however if CT manage to peg back Asc with Newdawn, Asc will naturally peg back Newdawn and CT should get very minimal incomings through it. You guys have already stated you would ONLY attack the strongest alliance, so what that means in reality is that every alliance can hit Asc, and Asc will only hit Newdawn. CT could find themselves back in the race...

I am wondering what DLR's involvement will be also, considering that Elviz is getting closer to Gate for #1 planet.

With too much incoming, we'll be unable to peg back anything. So I think in that respect, CT very much have a quandary on their hands. They can sit around, build value, not pay much attention and make their move as things progress if they feel like it.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by lokken

With too much incoming, we'll be unable to peg back anything. So I think in that respect, CT very much have a quandary on their hands. They can sit around, build value, not pay much attention and make their move as things progress if they feel like it.

So Ascendancy the most active alliance in the universe, an alliance with momentum, value and roids, an alliance with 40 more members than Newdawn and the alliance with probably the most efficient 'war players' wouldn't be able to hold up Newdawn?

Can I have some of what you are smoking please Lok.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Game^

So Ascendancy the most active alliance in the universe, an alliance with momentum, value and roids, an alliance with 40 more members than Newdawn and the alliance with probably the most efficient 'war players' wouldn't be able to hold up Newdawn?

Can I have some of what you are smoking please Lok.

You know full well that mass incomings, however great we might be results in containment of any alliance's firepower. If CT are interested in winning (if indeed you think they can win), they'll ND and Asc smash each other up. They are far from dead but they got badly hurt by us, very badly indeed - they are in no position to take on ND or Ascendancy if the battle to win is straightforward for them.

There comes a point where numbers trumps skill and given how Ascendancy fared with 3 on 1 last time in the short term (because that's all that's left in this round) a swift victory for either side would result eventual defeat. It's in their interest to see how it pans out rather than the tip the balance horribly from the early stages and then stand by as they get horribly outgunned.

So if I was them, I'd do exactly what NewDawn did to get into the position they're in right now. And if you can think of why staying largely out of conflict and watching the opposition kick lumps out of each other was bad for NewDawn, then I'd like to hear it. Because it's exactly the strategy I'm proposing for Conspiracy Theory.

[Veedeejem!]

Huge salvage donations to asc will give them the win!

[lokken]

Some terrible posts in this thread, particularly the one liners. Please improve by offering some analysis, for goodness sake.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Game

I'm confused at what you believe CT should do?

They are afterall only 7 million behind Asc as it stands, Newdawn and Asc are about to fight it out (1 on 1 lets face it Asc wins everytime), however if CT manage to peg back Asc with Newdawn, Asc will naturally peg back Newdawn and CT should get very minimal incomings through it. You guys have already stated you would ONLY attack the strongest alliance, so what that means in reality is that every alliance can hit Asc, and Asc will only hit Newdawn. CT could find themselves back in the race...

I think they should gain roids. I don't think ****ing huge teamups on Ascendancy planets are the best way to gain roids. If it was me I'd be glad to have the chance to focus on growth again.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I think they should gain roids. I don't think ****ing huge teamups on Ascendancy planets are the best way to gain roids. If it was me I'd be glad to have the chance to focus on growth again.

Ascendancy has 150k roids, and will have alot of incoming, I fail to see how this doesnt equal gaining roids?

[Achilles]

It's generally accepted that you fail at PA so I'm not surprised.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by Achilles

It's generally accepted that you fail at PA so I'm not surprised.

Well done Achi, countered the point fantastically.

There's nothing like posting a completely random personal post.

[Achilles]

I just don't want to enter a debate with someone who is being so obviously disingenuous. You know perfectly well that Asc aren't the easiest way to get roids or even a viable way for CT to get the kind of roids it needs to win from a difficult position. All you are doing is pandering to anti-Asc sentiment by quoting banal generalities that mean absolutely nothing in terms of the practical strategy required for CT to gain the most from this position and to leave themselves in with a shout come the final days.

You also deliberately twisted what Lok said but I'll leave that with him.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I just don't want to enter a debate with someone who is being so obviously disingenuous. You know perfectly well that Asc aren't the easiest way to get roids or even a viable way for CT to get the kind of roids it needs to win from a difficult position.

Complete and utter rubbish.

CT are 60k roids behind Asc, are you trying to tell me they can surpass Asc's roidcount (as lets face it, they would need to in order to beat them) by roiding randoms while Asc more than likely maintains its current roid count against ND/Omen?

CT's only chance to win is by roiding Asc, and hoping that Asc does enough damage to Newdawn to bring them down at the same time.

[ATRO]

Just a quick question if i may, directed at ND if they would answer for me please.

Has this decision been left until Omen were so far behind they couldn't be counted as a threat anymore? Until it was basically a 3 way fight knowing that asc have been pounding hard on CT so it's a good assumption to make they would join against asc? Omen have made their intentions pretty clear from tickstart and VgN will jump at the chance to hit on asc i imagine.

Actually when i think about it i do think ND have played a blinder, most likely CT, Omen and VgN doing their bidding and DLR can keep an eye on things to hold onto planet/gal #1.

It's still anyones guess who will win, it is keeping me watching at least.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Game

Complete and utter rubbish.

CT are 60k roids behind Asc, are you trying to tell me they can surpass Asc's roidcount (as lets face it, they would need to in order to beat them) by roiding randoms while Asc more than likely maintains its current roid count against ND/Omen?

CT's only chance to win is by roiding Asc, and hoping that Asc does enough damage to Newdawn to bring them down at the same time.

This is exactly what I mean by disingenuous. Only the Top 60 planets matter for score purposes. Which is what will determine who will win after all. Counting T60 planets you can half that roid gap and with ND and friends targeting Asc they are free to try and maximise these scoring planets. This actually suits how they play. Then, if there are some bloody conflicts between Asc and ND, a scenario some would even call likely, they stand to benefit massively whilst risking nothing.

Whether CT want to admit it or not they need to hit people they won't crash on to rebuild roids and morale and to put themselves in with a chance of capitalising on the forthcoming war. Becoming involved in it, whilst disadvantageous to Ascendancy is also adversely advantageous to ND. CT must beat both alliances to win so helping one of them is ****ing stupid. Which is why you are so gung ho for it. Unfortunately I have had the misfortune of being in an alliance with you long enough to know that what you post on the Forums very rarely reflects what you write in private and this is another such occasion.

[JonnyBGood]

I would be very surprised if there is a scenario where an alliance that isn't ND or Ascendancy can win the round now to be honest.

[Zeyi]

I don't think there are any contenders other than ND and Asc, nor do I think roid count and roid racing will have any effect on the winner.

This round will basically now be decided by who helps ND or Asc to win. Which although maybe unfair will involve some interesting political play.

[Zotnam]

Tbh, ct shouldnt choose a permanent ally here, just hit where they think they can gain most roids, be it asc, nd or even dlr. And I also think ct hc knows enough about how to gain "easy" roids to do this in a way that benifits themselfs more than another specific alliance. That way they still have a (albeit small) chance of winning.

[Zoro]

It's great to read the fear in the Asc posts.

And it's funny how they seem to know what CT should do to have a chance in the round. After they have just dismantled CT's chances in the last few weeks.

I think evryone knows that the best course of action is to join the feeding frenzy without reprisal (as ASC will be hitting ND).

It's a win win situation for them.
They help take down the evil ASC giving them a fair chance to rejoin the race for number 1 and their other main rivals ND take the punishment.

[Vladel]

We do like it rough and dry

[lokken]

It doesn't matter because without a strategy that maximises growth and builds morale, they wont beat either. Why the hell would a strategy that maintains the gap to nd with time running out be worthwhile?

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by lokken

Why the hell would a strategy that maintains the gap to Asc with time running out be worthwhile?

FIXED!

[Game^]

Originally Posted by lokken

It doesn't matter because without a strategy that maximises growth and builds morale, they wont beat either. Why the hell would a strategy that maintains the gap to nd with time running out be worthwhile?

Lok, you appear to be assuming I am saying that CT should hit Asc for the rest of the round...

The idea would be to pull Asc back very quickly and get a lead on them that they could be 'confident' in, and then move onto Newdawn with 4-5 days to go. This is of course presuming that Asc aren't actually able to damage ND themselves, which is very doubtful! (you have 120 planets fs)

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Game^

Lok, you appear to be assuming I am saying that CT should hit Asc for the rest of the round...

The idea would be to pull Asc back very quickly and get a lead on them that they could be 'confident' in, and then move onto Newdawn with 4-5 days to go. This is of course presuming that Asc aren't actually able to damage ND themselves, which is very doubtful! (you have 120 planets fs)

You are much more fun in this role:

<@Theam> !quote good fight
<@Munin> <@Achi> Game talks a good fight though

Other than that, you are suggesting that CT could catch up with NewDawn after Ascendocaust pt2. has happened. While our suggestion is that CT lets Ascendancy and NewDawn stagnate eachothers growth while CT gains on both. How could that not be in their interest?

[Game^]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

[/i]Other than that, you are suggesting that CT could catch up with NewDawn after Ascendocaust pt2. has happened. While our suggestion is that CT lets Ascendancy and NewDawn stagnate eachothers growth while CT gains on both. How could that not be in their interest?

I believe I covered this earlier by saying your suggestion would be fantastic if the round had another 6 weeks to run, in which time the roids they gain could then be used to build value. There is not the time left for CT to 'outgrow' both Asc/ND (how many times must I say this?), and to catch both CT will need to maximise the losses both sides suffer.

The only question to answer for CT HC is which alliance they choose to attempt to bring down first.

Hey though, I look forward to more Asc members making the same flawed points post after post. Repetition without actually addressing any points raised does not make for good reading.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Game^

I believe I covered this earlier by saying your suggestion would be fantastic if the round had another 6 weeks to run, in which time the roids they gain could then be used to build value. There is not the time left for CT to 'outgrow' both Asc/ND (how many times must I say this?), and to catch both CT will need to maximise the losses both sides suffer.

The only question to answer for CT HC is which alliance they choose to attempt to bring down first.

Hey though, I look forward to more Asc members making the same flawed points post after post. Repetition without actually addressing any points raised does not make for good reading.

Maximum losses to both sides as you are saying would not mean acting as leverage for one side.

[Knight Theamion]

No, they should pull an ND, fence it, sit it out and seize the opportunity to or hit both or one of them when it is clear who emerges victorious. Going in full force tonight is just no in their interest. It is in yours though.

[Mzyxptlk]

CT will not win the round, whatever strategy they use.

[Knight Theamion]

Given that as a premise I don't know whether they should help those that abandoned them (NewDawn) or should help those who obliged with the NAP they had at the start of the round and acted accordingly when CT dropped it (Ascendancy) or option 3, idle it out.

[Zoro]

I think people are losing sight of reality here.

This a game.
The aim of the game (apartfrom having fun) is to win.

As it stands only ASC can win. Everyone would agree with this FACT.
They have more planets, more roids, more value and even more experience (at winning).

So if we break it down the only way any other alliances have a chance is to stop ASC. The only chance any alliances have a chance to WIN (which is the aim of the game) is to stop ASC.

Omen have the right idea. 'We're attacking the most likely winner (for fun) even though it looks likely we can't win.'

CT have one chance of winning (and it's not fenceshitting) and it's to destroy ASC, gain lots of score while doing so and hope that ASC do enough damage to ND to allow your alliance to sneak up on the rails.

ASC will brush aside an onslaught from just ND and Omen within a few days and then the round will stagnate for the last week.

Can ASC brush aside an onslaught from ND, CT, Omen, VGN and DLR. I don't think so.
In this senario I would give CT about a 30% chance of winning the round. If they do nothing their chances would be close to zero as ASC will surely win.

[Cochese]

You seem to forget that CT is ****ing horrible though.

[Wishmaster]

it makes alot of sense for omen / vgn / ct to attack asc.

Asc will "only" def vs ND incs as they is their contender for #1.

Anyone NOT attacking asc the next days are not doing what would bring them maximum xp / roid gains.

[JonnyBGood]

Top 100 value and size, 13 asc, 16 ND. T200, 25 ND, 31 asc. So yeah, if you got big xp for landing on t200 value+size planets it might be a better idea to hit ascendancy than ND. However that's not how xp works*. To advocate hitting ascendancy ahead of ND based on the criteria cited by you in the post that I quoted given the actual planet rankings is just flat out wrong.



*Just in case you don't actually know how xp works I'll demonstrate below.

<JBG> !xp 3.4.5
<Munin> Target 3:4:5 (7037k|8207k) | Attacker 2:10:9 (5161k|6321k) | Bravery: 13.88 | Roids: 803 | XP: 11141 | Score: 668460
<JBG> !xp 6.1.6
<Munin> Target 6:1:6 (4868k|6478k) | Attacker 2:10:9 (5161k|6321k) | Bravery: 6.95 | Roids: 459 | XP: 3191 | Score: 191460

The first is me hitting an average t50 or so planet, the second is me hitting an average t200 or so planet. Note that despite the fact the first guy has only approximately 40% more score/value you get over 200% more xp score for hitting him than you do for hitting the second guy. You unquestionably get significantly more score from hitting planets ranked at the top 50 or so than you do for taking a similar number of roids off planets with a similar total value in the t200 or so.

[Game^]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Top 100 value and size, 13 asc, 16 ND. T200, 25 ND, 31 asc. So yeah, if you got big xp for landing on t200 value+size planets it might be a better idea to hit ascendancy than ND. However that's not how xp works*. To advocate hitting ascendancy ahead of ND based on the criteria cited by you in the post that I quoted given the actual planet rankings is just flat out wrong.

The reasoning behind hitting Ascendancy first would as much revolve around score + roid maximisation, as it would STOPPING THE ****ING ALLIANCE THAT IS GOING TO EASILY WIN AT THE MOMENT.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Game^

The reasoning behind hitting Ascendancy first would as much revolve around score + roid maximisation, as it would STOPPING THE ****ING ALLIANCE THAT IS GOING TO EASILY WIN AT THE MOMENT.

I'm not denying there are other reasons for hitting ascendancy, I've been informed omen are doing it just because we've fought them almost the entire round and we're just the enemy or whatever. I'm just pointing out that what JM claimed is completely untrue and quite frankly I've read enough complete fabrications to find it worthwhile demonstrating one to be such.


To be honest judging on this tick attacking us probably isn't the best option for some alliances!

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Top 100 value and size, 13 asc, 16 ND. T200, 25 ND, 31 asc. So yeah, if you got big xp for landing on t200 value+size planets it might be a better idea to hit ascendancy than ND. However that's not how xp works*. To advocate hitting ascendancy ahead of ND based on the criteria cited by you in the post that I quoted given the actual planet rankings is just flat out wrong.



*Just in case you don't actually know how xp works I'll demonstrate below.

<JBG> !xp 3.4.5
<Munin> Target 3:4:5 (7037k|8207k) | Attacker 2:10:9 (5161k|6321k) | Bravery: 13.88 | Roids: 803 | XP: 11141 | Score: 668460
<JBG> !xp 6.1.6
<Munin> Target 6:1:6 (4868k|6478k) | Attacker 2:10:9 (5161k|6321k) | Bravery: 6.95 | Roids: 459 | XP: 3191 | Score: 191460

The first is me hitting an average t50 or so planet, the second is me hitting an average t200 or so planet. Note that despite the fact the first guy has only approximately 40% more score/value you get over 200% more xp score for hitting him than you do for hitting the second guy. You unquestionably get significantly more score from hitting planets ranked at the top 50 or so than you do for taking a similar number of roids off planets with a similar total value in the t200 or so.

Correct me if im wrong, but i dont think a 5.1mil val planet is a fair comparison to your average CT planet. If youre going to show numbers, dont heavily weigh them in favour of your argument.

[JonnyBGood]

Sure. The 30th value ranked CT planet (the definition of average if you're going by counted score intag) is 4.3 mil value or so.

<JBG> !xp 6.1.6 CT Planet
<Munin> Target 6:1:6 (4868k|6478k) | Attacker CT Planet (4336k|5347k) | Bravery: 10.34 | Roids: 459 | XP: 4748 | Score: 284880
<JBG> !xp 3.4.5 11.3.9
<Munin> Target 3:4:5 (7037k|8207k) | Attacker CT Planet (4336k|5347k) | Bravery: 20.33 | Roids: 803 | XP: 16324 | Score: 979440

Pretty much exactly the same result to be honest. Over 200% more xp score.

Do not post coords. You know it's against the rules dude - Lok

[[JungleMuffin]]

The point im attempting to make is that while ND/Asc t60 roids/val may be reasonably comparable, the depth runs much deeper for Asc, than ND, with regards to XP yeilding planets. As ive said to some people, +300k may not be as much XP as +1mil, but when you have ND/Asc slugging it out at the top, you have 40+ planets ranked 60-120 that arent going to be getting much love with regards to ally def. ND on the other hand, have 60-80.

Its like going into a bar. If everyone is fighting over 1 girl, ur not gonna be getting much action, but if uve got a few more girls about, theres alot more to go around.

Hope that gets my point across, anyways nn Planetarion.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]

The point im attempting to make is that while ND/Asc t60 roids/val may be reasonably comparable, the depth runs much deeper for Asc, than ND, with regards to XP yeilding planets. As ive said to some people, +300k may not be as much XP as +1mil, but when you have ND/Asc slugging it out at the top, you have 40+ planets ranked 60-120 that arent going to be getting much love with regards to ally def. ND on the other hand, have 60-80.

Its like going into a bar. If everyone is fighting over 1 girl, ur not gonna be getting much action, but if uve got a few more girls about, theres alot more to go around.

Hope that gets my point across, anyways nn Planetarion.

Not to go fully ad hominem here, but if we use your example and your 'guiding light' for not going for the most fit girl, everyone should be going for:

30 Epic Penguins 1896 4 613,360 2,453,443
They are just like the girl you went for. Small and fat.

[t3k]

I really can't be bothered with the politics discussion on the forums any more. People controlling politics only ever say 'X' on the forums, and everyone else only ever says 'Why?'. It's a boring read because these forums are in such a shocking state that they're almost unrecogniseable as 'discussion boards'.

You guys do realise what the 'D' in 'AD' stands for, right? Nobody comes on here any more with ANY inclination to listen to what anyone else is saying. There's a very disheartening "Here is my point of view, I'll be back later to tell you why your arguments are irrellevent and my point of view sticks" that has made posting on here more effort than it's worth.

Just to be clear - I'm in NewDawn at the moment, and wouldn't mind if they won it. In fact, given the alternatives, I'm all for a NewDawn win. Asc deserve it the most... to disagree would be ignorant (heh)... but that doesn't mean I want them to have it. It's all about being honest and saying "Yeah, you know what, if they win - they'll have f*cking worked hard for it.".

Same should go with the forums. Asc have by far the best posters on the forums (though they also have some total f*cking idiots... Hi cardnial!) and this should at least be acknowledged. Where is the sense in making a post that says "Oh my god - DAT WAS TOTAL PROPERGANDAZ" regardless of what the previous post said. If it was propeganda, do you really think that you're that special only you have the insight needed to expose the post for what it truly is? But lets face it - you probably didn't even read the post in question unless it was to look for something you could semanticate over.

Tommy said to me about a week ago that the PA boards are in a worse state than the PIA boards ever were. Now THEY were bad... and it's only really been since he mentioned that that I realised he was right.

I've pretty much given up posting on the forums now... I'm at nowhere near the same level as I have been previously and it's because I just can't be bothered anymore.

I can no longer find the motivation to get involved in the bitching. I mean, it's not even proper arguing - nobody is willing to admit they may not be entirely correct about something. In fact, the only person who I've seen concede a point on anything this round is JBG. And then everyone was like "omg i told u he was slightly wrong! how amazing are we?".

I can only hope that people dont carry this same level of pure ignorance in to their real lives.

I'll part with this newsflash:

COMMENTING ON ALLIANCE DISCUSSION DOES NOT, HAS NOT, AND WILL NEVER AFFECT THE WAY AN ALLIANCE DOES POLITICS.

Please, start making this a bit more interesting eh?