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12 May 2004, 15:47
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#1
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
I am starting to get fed up, BOTH sides are just being totally hypocritical now.
The US and us Brits wade in going on about how we'll bring peace and freedom and democracy blah blah blah, then we go and torture and humiliate prisoners.
The usurped Iraqi army/militants go on about how we western dogs have no morals and are against god blah blah blah, then they burn corpses of our soldiers and string them from bridges. And this latest thing.
Why can't both sides just admit they're both as bad as each other, and that in each case it's a minority of thier representatives doing these things which then get attributed to every person who's under the same flag?
[/rant]
[edit]
For those who've been living in a hole for a while:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3706081.stm
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
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12 May 2004, 15:50
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#2
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Url to the actual choppy choppy ?
__________________
Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
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12 May 2004, 15:50
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#3
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
as for burning soliders - i dont see how they should have a problem with them doing that. The soliders are invading their country - they see it as their right to burn them.
as for them killing civilians - that is a different matter - although to them, even the people rebuilding their country are working for a foreign government, foreign companies who all profit from rebuilding (and aid the american cause).
The Western governments have more to blame, because they are the people claiming the moral high-ground, and at the same time they are failing on every count.
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12 May 2004, 15:52
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#4
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Those that were burnt and hung from the bridge were constuction workers wernt they?
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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12 May 2004, 15:52
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#5
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Blair and the White House have already apologised for the whole torture business, it's not like they're saying what was done was right, or endorsed by the majority.
As for the Iraqis, well, they're all ignorant savages anyway
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12 May 2004, 15:53
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#6
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
No they were "security contractors" read mercenaries.
__________________
Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
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12 May 2004, 15:54
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#7
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Blair and the White House have already apologised for the whole torture business, it's not like they're saying what was done was right, or endorsed by the majority.
As for the Iraqis, well, they're all ignorant savages anyway
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apologies are just to please the public. Bush took his sweet time to apologize. As for blair, he is such a spin monkey that anything coming out of his mouth is just pure and utter bullshit.
i am fairly sure that neither of them care about the atrocities, and if they didnt know better - they probably endorsed them
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12 May 2004, 15:56
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#8
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th0ng gimp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere in th0ngland
Posts: 1,798
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
anyone got a url for the vid?
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12 May 2004, 15:58
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#9
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Are you really that sick that you want to see an unarmed man having his head cut off?
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
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12 May 2004, 15:59
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#10
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Just seen the video Very nasty, especially as he's screaming as they do it PM Rumad.
__________________
Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
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12 May 2004, 16:00
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#11
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
i just got it from kazaa... type in "nick berg" in search field
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12 May 2004, 16:01
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#12
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th0ng gimp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere in th0ngland
Posts: 1,798
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Are you really that sick that you want to see an unarmed man having his head cut off?
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people look at that kind of stuff everyday - its not sick as so much morbid curiousity. Like slowing down when going past a disaster f some sort (trian wreck, car crash etc)
I would say its human nature
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12 May 2004, 16:05
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#13
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th0ng gimp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere in th0ngland
Posts: 1,798
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Just seen the video Very nasty, especially as he's screaming as they do it PM Rumad.
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Thanks hicks - will have a look now
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12 May 2004, 16:06
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#14
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
PM me too!
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12 May 2004, 16:07
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#15
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th0ng gimp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere in th0ngland
Posts: 1,798
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
omg thats worse than i expected
Wasnt even a clean strike he suffered bad
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12 May 2004, 16:07
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#16
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
just get it from kazaa you oafs
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12 May 2004, 16:09
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Why can't both sides just admit they're both as bad as each other
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I dont really think that the americans are 'just as bad' as al quaeda, but I suppose we have to keep the moral equivalence flag flying high.
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12 May 2004, 16:12
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#18
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overtired
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,900
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
the newspaper report saying they "sawed" his head off as he screamed was enough detail for me
wasn't the knifeman supposed to be some high-ranking "henchman" of Bin Laden? (meaning omg, the war in Iraq could be part of the war on terrorism after all?)
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12 May 2004, 16:22
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#19
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Well, it's genius really. The fighting in Iraq is about the "war on terror"; basically the invasion has caused a 1000% increase in terrorism in the area...
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12 May 2004, 16:24
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#20
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I dont really think that the americans are 'just as bad' as al quaeda, but I suppose we have to keep the moral equivalence flag flying high.
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Yeah, I don't quite get the whole "they're both as bad as each other". It sounds like something you'd say to very young children in a patronising tone.
In any conflict, it seems highly unlikely you'd get two sides both exactly the same level of evil or whatever.
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12 May 2004, 16:24
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Its more about the long term though. A short term increase in local terrorism would obviously be a small price to pay if the strategical benefits were high enough on a more global scale.
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12 May 2004, 16:36
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#22
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Yeah, I don't quite get the whole "they're both as bad as each other". It sounds like something you'd say to very young children in a patronising tone.
In any conflict, it seems highly unlikely you'd get two sides both exactly the same level of evil or whatever.
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agreed..
the americans and brits are more evil
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12 May 2004, 17:02
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#23
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
The difference, however, and this is pure spectulation from my side, since nothing has been proven, is that the American goverment officials (CIA agenst, high ranking staff, and so on) are doing those horrible things, while the others does not in any way represent the iraq people in any offical way at least.
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12 May 2004, 18:57
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#24
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Snake of the Sand
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1,500
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
if you meant "pure speculation" as in "completely moronic drivel", then I completely agree with you.
I havent seen the video, don't care to. I've already seen a man get his head sawed off and it was quite enough the first time. It takes an rabid animal to do that shit, whatever your intent. Men like that on any side deserve no mercy.
__________________
I poke badgers with spoons.
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12 May 2004, 19:55
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#25
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IRC Lackey
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere in the dark and nasty regions...
Posts: 1,471
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
the newspaper report saying they "sawed" his head off as he screamed was enough detail for me
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Me too :/
__________________
-Mushroom.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
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12 May 2004, 19:57
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#26
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
They said they did it with a knife! How is that even possible?
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12 May 2004, 20:00
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#27
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its more about the long term though. A short term increase in local terrorism would obviously be a small price to pay if the strategical benefits were high enough on a more global scale.
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We haven't exactly seen a huge decrease in the amount of international terrorism. I suppose if, for a veritable multitude of reasons, terrorism does decrease in the future it'll be due to the war on terror though.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 May 2004, 20:03
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#28
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
They said they did it with a knife! How is that even possible?
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I don't really want to know, to be honest.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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12 May 2004, 20:07
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#29
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Is snuff even legal? Not that it matters, but it'd be nice to know.
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12 May 2004, 20:11
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#30
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
We haven't exactly seen a huge decrease in the amount of international terrorism. I suppose if, for a veritable multitude of reasons, terrorism does decrease in the future it'll be due to the war on terror though.
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International terrorism is at a 20 year low, which suggests that the Bush administration has done something right in the last couple of years regarding the war on terror.
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12 May 2004, 20:14
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#31
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Is snuff even legal? Not that it matters, but it'd be nice to know.
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This isn't a snuff movie. But if you mean is it legal to show someone be executed, then yeah probably.
More graphic stuff is probably against some sort of restriction or other.
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12 May 2004, 20:15
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#32
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
International terrorism is at a 20 year low, which suggests that the Bush administration has done something right in the last couple of years regarding the war on terror.
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How is that defined and/or measured? Why is the word "international" in there? Does it matter if it's international? And does that include terrorism undertaken by states?
Also, source?
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12 May 2004, 20:18
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#33
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
International terrorism is at a 20 year low, which suggests that the Bush administration has done something right in the last couple of years regarding the war on terror.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
How is that defined and/or measured? Why is the word "international" in there? Does it matter if it's international? And does that include terrorism undertaken by states?
Also, source?
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And i think you'd have to do a little bit of work establishing a valid causal line of reasoning other than using the "this rock keeps tigers away" option.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 May 2004, 20:19
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#34
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And i think you'd have to do a little bit of work establishing a valid causal line of reasoning other than using the "this rock keeps tigers away" option.
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Where can I buy one of these rocks?
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12 May 2004, 20:23
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#35
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
How is that defined and/or measured? Why is the word "international" in there? Does it matter if it's international? And does that include terrorism undertaken by states?
Also, source?
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The source is a paper recently published by the White House. There are summaries all over the internet. The BBC's summary of it is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3672035.stm
By international I just meant incidents worldwide.
And yes, I do realise that most of the attacks in Iraq are not classed as terrorism under this report.
It's all about the definition baby!
And what do you mean terrorism undertaken by states? If by that you mean for example the Israeli army entering Palestine and blowing up a few buildings then it probably doesn't count as terrorism.
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12 May 2004, 20:27
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#36
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
If they're not ****ing Iraq, of course they've gone down, all the terrorists are preoccupied by bein in Iraq!!!
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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12 May 2004, 20:33
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#37
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
I guess this is the terrorist version of "shock and awe"... right on your TV and computer...
__________________
"Yay"
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12 May 2004, 20:33
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#38
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
And what do you mean terrorism undertaken by states? If by that you mean for example the Israeli army entering Palestine and blowing up a few buildings then it probably doesn't count as terrorism.
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Well, I'm counting terrorism as the use of terror against a civlian populace as a political tactic (in order to further particular goals). I'm sure I've argued about this before, but I can't remember what my line was.
Either way, governments can behave in a terroristic fashion; the Colombian government for instance, the Soviet regime, etc...
If we're saying "Our definition of terrorism is when people we don't like blow up our installations" then sure, it might be reduced by massively increasing state violence.
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12 May 2004, 20:33
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#39
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
If they're not ****ing Iraq, of course they've gone down, all the terrorists are preoccupied by bein in Iraq!!!
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heh, yeah, I suppose you could draw that conclusion. Although they do count Iraq it's just that when a terrorist attacks a soldier it doesn't count as a terrorist attack, only when he attacks a civilian.
Besides, I'd be more inclined to believe the report's explanation for the decrease:
"He said that last year there had been unprecedented cooperation between the United States and foreign countries to defeat terrorism."
ie third world countries didn't particulary care about terrorism before the US started telling them to care.
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12 May 2004, 20:38
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#40
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
If they're not ****ing Iraq, of course they've gone down, all the terrorists are preoccupied by bein in Iraq!!!
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That's arguably a good thing though. All else being equal, I'd rather the terrorists went toe-to-toe with the US military in Iraq than with US civilians in manhatten.*
*Not to be interpreted as an endorsement of New Yorkers.
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The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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12 May 2004, 20:47
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#41
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
But what about US/Iraqi civillians in Iraq?
Are you not bein a bit selfish Tact?
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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12 May 2004, 20:52
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#42
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
From a numbers point of view, active terrorism in Iraq is costing less human lives than if it were happening in Manhatten. I don't know that it's selfish so much as coldly logical.
__________________
You're now playing ketchup
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12 May 2004, 20:57
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#43
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
From a numbers point of view, active terrorism in Iraq is costing less human lives than if it were happening in Manhatten. I don't know that it's selfish so much as coldly logical.
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Evidence...?
Sure, if you put the US Army + whomever they're fighting in New York a lot more people would die. But that's not even vaguely like the situation that would occur if the US hadn't invaded Iraq, so I'm not sure why it's being discussed.
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12 May 2004, 20:59
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#44
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Set a carbomb off in a lazy Iraqi village, then set one off in downtown Manhatten. Just from population density the Manhatten bomb's more likely to do more damage.
I was only defending Tact =((
__________________
You're now playing ketchup
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12 May 2004, 21:02
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#45
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Everyone loves Tact, but that's still not a valid comparison. In the three years since 9/11, how many lives have been lost via terrorism in New York?
How many lives have been lost via terrorism in Iraq in the last few months? How many more if it drags on for another two or so years?
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12 May 2004, 21:03
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#46
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
We need a kill index.
__________________
You're now playing ketchup
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12 May 2004, 21:07
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#47
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Everyone loves Tact, but that's still not a valid comparison. In the three years since 9/11, how many lives have been lost via terrorism in New York?
How many lives have been lost via terrorism in Iraq in the last few months? How many more if it drags on for another two or so years?
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Those people would have died eventually anyway.
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12 May 2004, 21:18
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#48
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
How many more if it drags on for another two or so years?
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Thats kind of optimistic.
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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12 May 2004, 21:22
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#49
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Those people would have died eventually anyway.
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Technology would develop and make us immortal so you're wrong. Denying the progression of technology makes you a big communist.
I didn't think it was possible to troll yourself on the internet
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 May 2004, 21:25
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#50
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: With this whole "US civilian beheaded and video posted on net" thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I didn't think it was possible to troll yourself on the internet
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Sunday8Pwho?
__________________
You're now playing ketchup
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