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Unread 15 May 2005, 09:35   #1
Androme
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Next Gen Consoles

Well it's inevitable that a thread of this nature will be devised so I might as well bring it up for anyone who's interested.

So many people I've noticed are all about the X-Box 360 and quite a lot of people are forgetting what PS3 is going to be powered by... the processor is entitled the "Cell" and believe it or not, its power exceeds the capabilities of the X-Box 360.

According to so many sources, 8 Cell processors together is sufficient enough to be enlisted in the top 500 supercomputers list. It's being worked on by Sony, IBM and Toshiba so that's a hell of a lot of knowledge behind the making of this vastly superior chip. It's quite likely to be extended to PC's in the not too distant future too because it 'can' withstand extreme workloads and is also able to handle all kinds of digital entertainment media but for the mean time, I'm sure it'll stay exclusive to the PS3 as it has been designed primarily for.

I've covered a bit in Computing but the teacher only went as far as drawing a diagram of the structure of the chip and comparing it to a typical CPU layout with the ALU, etc. The Cell has a core and 8 SPU's surrounding it, each housing iirc. 4/5 FPU's. (Floating Point Units and Synergistic Processor Units). In basic, he said it was like several mini-processors all-in-one which makes for a far more efficient and in this case, more powerful chip. X-Box 360 will be good but the PS3 will be better imo.

I wouldn't recommend Nintendo out completely - they're switching to DVD's now and it will be backwards compatible to also allow the playing of Gamecube games. It's going to be just over the thickness of 2 DVD cases and just over the length of one according to Nintendo (iirc.). Now that's going to be bloody small (think slimline PS2 but smaller I think). Simply saying, Nintendo are 'slowly' moving towards expanding outside of the Japanese market and slowly appealing towards the Western audience. The Revolution will be out-of-the-box wireless internet capable and the proposed feature like X-Box LIVE which never came out on the Gamecube (only was in Japan or tested there iirc.?) is now more than likely to go ahead.
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Unread 15 May 2005, 11:47   #2
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Well it's inevitable that a thread of this nature will be devised so I might as well bring it up for anyone who's interested.

So many people I've noticed are all about the X-Box 360 and quite a lot of people are forgetting what PS3 is going to be powered by... the processor is entitled the "Cell" and believe it or not, its power exceeds the capabilities of the X-Box 360.

According to so many sources, 8 Cell processors together is sufficient enough to be enlisted in the top 500 supercomputers list. It's being worked on by Sony, IBM and Toshiba so that's a hell of a lot of knowledge behind the making of this vastly superior chip. It's quite likely to be extended to PC's in the not too distant future too because it 'can' withstand extreme workloads and is also able to handle all kinds of digital entertainment media but for the mean time, I'm sure it'll stay exclusive to the PS3 as it has been designed primarily for.

I've covered a bit in Computing but the teacher only went as far as drawing a diagram of the structure of the chip and comparing it to a typical CPU layout with the ALU, etc. The Cell has a core and 8 SPU's surrounding it, each housing iirc. 4/5 FPU's. (Floating Point Units and Synergistic Processor Units). In basic, he said it was like several mini-processors all-in-one which makes for a far more efficient and in this case, more powerful chip. X-Box 360 will be good but the PS3 will be better imo.

I wouldn't recommend Nintendo out completely - they're switching to DVD's now and it will be backwards compatible to also allow the playing of Gamecube games. It's going to be just over the thickness of 2 DVD cases and just over the length of one according to Nintendo (iirc.). Now that's going to be bloody small (think slimline PS2 but smaller I think). Simply saying, Nintendo are 'slowly' moving towards expanding outside of the Japanese market and slowly appealing towards the Western audience. The Revolution will be out-of-the-box wireless internet capable and the proposed feature like X-Box LIVE which never came out on the Gamecube (only was in Japan or tested there iirc.?) is now more than likely to go ahead.
You're looking far too much into the simple processor power. So far the CELL chip is all Sony have said about the PS3. Microsoft have really pulled out the stops for the Xbox - its 3 3.2Ghz processors is by far enough power for the next generation of games so I think the graphical stage of the next 'war' is going to be fairly even. Sony need to get their asses into gear. They can't mess around this generation - both of their competitors are coming out with wireless controllers (4 ports). I do hope Sony FINALLY do wireless and 4 ports standard, rather than using that multitap excuse again. The Xbox 360 keeping its hard drive is such an immense relief to me, and its launch window is frankly shocking. The other thing Sony are going to have trouble with is the online capabilities - Microsoft are -so- far ahead its laughable on that one. Who can forget the fact GT4 was designed to be online, yet that 'feature' was dropped due to the developers unable to get it to work on Sony's network? A sham which only goes to show that Sony need to revitalize/develop the online structure for the Playstation and that's alot of catchup to do.

Moving away from the consumer side of things, Playstation has been a bugger to code for out of all the systems this generation and Microsoft have deliberately made the Xbox 360 easier to code for than the current Xbox. If Sony give headaches still for the Playstation 3, then that will not only make sure the console isn't used up to its full potential but keep the launch window of their games scattered as developers struggler to get the game out quick enough (As Sony are definately not wanting to give Microsoft too much of a lead in launch.)

The timing of the launch is really in Microsoft's favour. They've had poor production of the Xbox console recently, and the launch of the 360 just shows that it was probably due to that. Sony won't be able to bring out the PS3 for a good 6 months after the Xbox 360 at a guess - due to the fact it's too busy meeting demand for the PSP currently and the fact it's only just released the silver slimline PS2. I could potentially see Sony being the last to release a next generation console.

Nintendo news is few and far between - I haven't heard of it utilizing DVD but it has been confirmed that it will be backwards compatable with the Gamecube.
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Unread 15 May 2005, 12:02   #3
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Until we see more solid specs and tech demos I'll reserve my thoughts on the cell architecture of the PS3. I've heard both positive and negative points to it.

At the end of the day it's not the technology that sells the console its the quality of the game itself. You only need to consider the fact that the X-Box spec was superior to the PS2, but that didn't stop Sony from gaining the most market share in console sales.

Personally I want to see the X-Box 360 succeed, I think Sony have had hold of the reigns for too long already. Admittedly I'm also still a little raw at them for adding to the demise of Sega

Nintendo I see as more of a wildcard. They are the oldest surviving player in the console arena, and they don't intend to lose. I envisiged them using their hold on the portable entertainment market and using it as leverage. Their strength as I see has always been innovation rather than raw power, and from all the rumours out there surrounding the Revolution I expect to see more of the usual wackiness they do so well.
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Unread 15 May 2005, 13:53   #4
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Here is a fake video of the Revolution. It would need to be something like this to actually be as revolutionary as they claimed.

http://arachneon.free.fr/Nintendo.zip
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Unread 15 May 2005, 14:35   #5
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

10Mb onboard memory, I already mention this in the other thread
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Unread 15 May 2005, 14:38   #6
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY

10Mb

So, like 1.25MB ? That's not much.

PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY
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Unread 15 May 2005, 15:22   #7
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY

10Mb

So, like 1.25MB ? That's not much.

PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY PEDANTRY
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Unread 15 May 2005, 18:16   #8
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Until we see more solid specs and tech demos I'll reserve my thoughts on the cell architecture of the PS3. I've heard both positive and negative points to it.

At the end of the day it's not the technology that sells the console its the quality of the game itself. You only need to consider the fact that the X-Box spec was superior to the PS2, but that didn't stop Sony from gaining the most market share in console sales.

There is so much crap for the PS2 though. The PS2 won mainly due to the fact it came out before the Xbox/GC and had backwards compatability with the PSX. "Exclusive" doesn't last long nowadays. (As shown with GTA and Splinter Cell)

So far the three games confirmed for launch with the Xbox 360 are: Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo: Elements of Power, Project Gotham Racing 3. With the disappointment of GT4 (to the extent some fans prefer PGR2) I see that as a good sign so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Personally I want to see the X-Box 360 succeed, I think Sony have had hold of the reigns for too long already. Admittedly I'm also still a little raw at them for adding to the demise of Sega
I have to concur with this totally. I want to see Sony knocked off their perch as they're becoming too complacent in stagnating the market. I'm hoping for more innotative games this generation, rather than "Grand Theft Auto 6" etc. Microsoft seem to be doing things right as they are (They were going to exclude the hard drive originally, but it seems they caved to pressure on it - as it was a key feature of the Xbox. That's very reassuring to me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Nintendo I see as more of a wildcard. They are the oldest surviving player in the console arena, and they don't intend to lose. I envisiged them using their hold on the portable entertainment market and using it as leverage. Their strength as I see has always been innovation rather than raw power, and from all the rumours out there surrounding the Revolution I expect to see more of the usual wackiness they do so well.
I love Nintendo, but it's dying. I've watched the Gamecube die since I began working at GAME, and it's been a sad process. The entire 'thought' and 'view' of Nintendo is rather bad within the company and public and they've failed to really impress this generation. With their handheld market threatened by the PSP, Nintendo seem to be reactive rather than proactive which is bad. I'm hoping for good things from them with the Revolution and the GBA 2. (The DS is just a big disappointment to me.)

E3 will tell us more regarding the PS3 and Revo anyway. Here's hoping Sony is going to be challenged.
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Unread 15 May 2005, 19:46   #9
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

The only reason I originally purchased the Gamecube on the release date was firstly, after playing Perfect Dark to the death (addictive) I presumed it would be released on Gamecube too (there were even signs of it too).... then the saddened departure of the team to Microsoft which bugged me a little. I considered the PS2 and X-Box but the majority of the games I wanted for both came out on PC (eventually). The only luring point towards X-Box was the Halo game (I've heard that Halo 2 is actually just apart of Halo 3...?!) but the chunky SNES & PS2 inspired controller (could say Dreamcast but that was more based on the SNES and PS2 too) just put me off. It's an ok controller but just way too big for its own good. I loved the N64 controller and the Gamecube controller was just pure brilliance imo. The PS2 controller I've come to get used to but nothing compares to the controllers Nintendo come out with.

If Nintendo ever did go down the same route as Sega, I'd like to see them produce controllers at least
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Unread 15 May 2005, 19:46   #10
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo
In its final form, Revolution will be about the thickness of three standard DVD cases and only slightly longer. The versatile Revolution will play either horizontally or vertically, allowing the user total flexibility in setting up a gaming session wherever they have a television.

Thanks to Nintendo's hardware development partners IBM and ATI, the small system will be packed with power that will enable it to wow players with its graphics. Nintendo's legions of loyal fans will be happy to learn that Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 8cm disks along with its own 12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive.
Interesting benefit the size, I wonder how they're pulling it off - I hope it doesn't mark an end to Nintendo's excellent post-guarantee quality. What's interesting here is that the Revolution will have its own format for the games - no mention of DVD here. (Bar for comparing size of the machine to DVD cases.)
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Unread 15 May 2005, 19:49   #11
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
The only reason I originally purchased the Gamecube on the release date was firstly, after playing Perfect Dark to the death (addictive) I presumed it would be released on Gamecube too (there were even signs of it too).... then the saddened departure of the team to Microsoft which bugged me a little. I considered the PS2 and X-Box but the majority of the games I wanted for both came out on PC (eventually). The only luring point towards X-Box was the Halo game (I've heard that Halo 2 is actually just apart of Halo 3...?!) but the chunky SNES & PS2 inspired controller (could say Dreamcast but that was more based on the SNES and PS2 too) just put me off. It's an ok controller but just way too big for its own good. I loved the N64 controller and the Gamecube controller was just pure brilliance imo. The PS2 controller I've come to get used to but nothing compares to the controllers Nintendo come out with.

If Nintendo ever did go down the same route as Sega, I'd like to see them produce controllers at least
I own a GC and Xbox personally. Got the GC first, then the Xbox the following year. Peer pressure at work eventually caves you in to actually own at least one system. I was dubious to the Xbox at first but in reality I quite like it. Controller is fine to me (The Controller-S is the only one I've used however)

I hate the Z button the Cube controller with a passion.
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Unread 15 May 2005, 21:01   #12
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

I expect that this thread will be moved much like my xbox thread was moved
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Unread 15 May 2005, 22:46   #13
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Interesting benefit the size, I wonder how they're pulling it off - I hope it doesn't mark an end to Nintendo's excellent post-guarantee quality. What's interesting here is that the Revolution will have its own format for the games - no mention of DVD here. (Bar for comparing size of the machine to DVD cases.)
The DVD media mention is on the Gamespot website.
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Unread 16 May 2005, 22:30   #14
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

I was going to buy a PS2 but then I thought "PS3 will be out sometime, I'll just wait."
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Unread 17 May 2005, 01:57   #15
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614619p1.html

The PS3 unveiled, it looks pretty crap, very similar to PS2 except they've thrown in a curve shape to it and thr joypad is one of the most disgusting pads ive seen and the button layout....pfff same as PS1 and 2 *sigh*

Hope Nintendo is something special
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Unread 17 May 2005, 02:16   #16
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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I was going to buy a PS2 but then I thought "PS3 will be out sometime, I'll just wait."
Same thing happened with me and the IBM 33mhz 286 PC I was going to buy in 1989.
I'm gonna wait for the Pentium 5 I think.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 05:31   #17
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by FooFighter
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614619p1.html

The PS3 unveiled, it looks pretty crap, very similar to PS2 except they've thrown in a curve shape to it and thr joypad is one of the most disgusting pads ive seen and the button layout....pfff same as PS1 and 2 *sigh*

Hope Nintendo is something special
The pad is surprisingly comfortable although it looks somewhat like a banana.

I presume at some point the entire presentation will be available for download somewhere, but I recommend viewing it if only for the Unreal demo.

Its quite funny to see the amount of rumours that are running around based on people double guessing the meaning of slides who didn't go to the presentation (i.e people quoting it is 10 TFLOPS, or FF7 is being remade for it).
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Unread 17 May 2005, 08:08   #18
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
I've heard that Halo 2 is actually just apart of Halo 3...?!
Halo 2 just.... stops.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 09:50   #19
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

If any how the control pads are wireless, I'll hate Sony for this.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 12:17   #20
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
If any how the control pads are wireless, I'll hate Sony for this.
Nintendo and Microsoft are using wireless controllers...?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 12:21   #21
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4554025.stm

drool drool
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Unread 17 May 2005, 12:26   #22
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

They said that the PS2 could be considered a supercomputer. The PS3 isn't significantly more powerful than the X360 or the Revolution, assuming it's more powerful in the first place.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 14:21   #23
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

They seem to be claiming the GPU will somehow be somthing revolutionary and spectacular and unprecedented, and then in the next sentence go on to say that it will be nearly twice as powerful as todays most powerful graphics card.

Now correct me if im wrong, but if Moores law still holds true for video cards, this means they will double in power every one and a half years. If the release date for the PS3 is a year away at best, then realistically is the graphics processor going to be anything special at the time of release? Sure it will be powerful and sold at a loss, but if you can get the same level of power out of the contemporary GPU's then that is hardly revolutionary now is it?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 14:28   #24
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

The PS3 is said to be twice as powerful as the X Box 360. Which isn't that impressive when you consider that the PS3 is coming out one year later.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 14:45   #25
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Moores law hasnt held for some time (why have we not got 4GHz processors when we had 3GHz years ago..) However GPU's might be different as they are slightly behind and thus have a bit life in the law yet.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 14:48   #26
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

I haven't looked at the video card market for some time but for a while they were doubling in power every 6 months. Might have slowed down now though.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 15:12   #27
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Moores law hasnt held for some time (why have we not got 4GHz processors when we had 3GHz years ago..) However GPU's might be different as they are slightly behind and thus have a bit life in the law yet.
Er its not meant to be an exact science, its not a 'law' as such.

And yes GPU's are different
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Unread 17 May 2005, 15:56   #28
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Ofc its not a 'law', i never said it was an exact science, but Moore's 'law' has held for decades, and has failed over recent years due to the limits of size.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 17:30   #29
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Moores law hasnt held for some time (why have we not got 4GHz processors when we had 3GHz years ago..)
:eng101: There are processors designed for home users that are nearly 5Ghz equivilent, base.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 17:32   #30
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_horn
i don't get why you guys aren't concerned about the tiny amount of RAM !?!?!? surely this is going to bottleneck these super processing chips ?
The "tiny" amount of RAM is less trouble than it seems, because not only do the systems not have to run an equivilently hungry OS, but the games are also designed to run on that amount of RAM as a limitation.

The current X-Box only has 64 megs of RAM, and that's only really represented a problem in badly coded games, so far (Thief 3, Deus Ex 2 for example).
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Unread 17 May 2005, 17:36   #31
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614783p1.html

PS3 vs Xbox 360

PS3 kicks its ass !!
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Unread 17 May 2005, 17:38   #32
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by FooFighter
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614783p1.html

PS3 vs Xbox 360

PS3 kicks its ass !!
It's certainly the more powerful processor. The rest of the stats are pretty similar.

Oh, and lol ps3 hueg
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:00   #33
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

But the ps3 controller looks hideous.

*shudders*

And I always get bored of tech-specs. I can have the best pc in the world but still have crap games and that's no use. I need games, games!
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:02   #34
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

ps3 can render games with 128 bit. sounds exorbitant
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:22   #35
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
ps3 can render games with 128 bit. sounds exorbitant
So can the ps2, can't it?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:28   #36
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
ps3 can render games with 128 bit
I'm not sure that that statement means anything.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:48   #37
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_horn
i thought 64 bit architecture was braind new
It's not, it's just there's been no need to use it before, as we're approaching the limits on the amount of memory that 32 bit can address.

There's nothing inherently "better" about a higher number of bits, it just suggests a higher limit - notice that over the past few years consoles have moved from being described simply by their number of bits towards one based around actual specification.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:51   #38
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

On a slightly related note, now I'm finishing university and moving back somewhere with a television, I'd like to buy a new console. (There's only so many times you can replay Goldeneye.) Which one should I get? I'm generally far more concerned about good games than graphics etc. Will all these new ones coming out be backwards compatible?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 19:54   #39
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
On a slightly related note, now I'm finishing university and moving back somewhere with a television, I'd like to buy a new console. (There's only so many times you can replay Goldeneye.) Which one should I get? I'm generally far more concerned about good games than graphics etc. Will all these new ones coming out be backwards compatible?
They all will be, apparantly.

What kind of games do you prefer? Does it have to be a console? Does it have to be a new console?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:04   #40
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
What kind of games do you prefer?
I'm not generally fussed - normally I'll play a game if it's good, regardless of genre. I enjoyed most of the popular N64 games. (Well, except the sport ones.)

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Does it have to be a console?
I don't like playing games on my computer because it crashes all the time. Plus I much prefer playing multiplayer with people next to me to playing it with people over the internet.

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Does it have to be a new console?
Not really, I suppose.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:09   #41
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

i recommend the PS3, but i'm somewhat an acolyte of Sony so that may be a biased comment. I don't think the Revolution is going to be a winner though; rather, i suspect it will be to Nintendo as the Dreamcast was to Sega - the final nail in the coffin.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:11   #42
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

If you want multiplayer games, I'd probably say a Gamecube: the PS2 only has 2 controller ports, and in all too many games on the X-Box multiplayer, even offline multiplayer, is forced through XB Live.

The PS2 has by far the largest library (partially because it's the oldest), but the only thing it's really got that the other two haven't got is a pile of Japanese RPGs (FFX, Disgaia, that kind of thing).

I personally just don't think there's enough games on the X-Box worth buying, although that's with a PC.

Your PC crashing isn't really a problem, as buying a new, decent, PC would barely cost more than the initial price of the new round of consoles, although it is more for single player gaming in many ways.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:14   #43
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Phang
i recommend the PS3, but i'm somewhat an acolyte of Sony so that may be a biased comment. I don't think the Revolution is going to be a winner though; rather, i suspect it will be to Nintendo as the Dreamcast was to Sega - the final nail in the coffin.
That's an utterly invalid comparison. Sega's failure is generally regarded as being down to releasing the new iteration of console far too swiftly after the previous one - and of course, that it was losing money hand over fist from the Saturn onwards.

The Gamecube, although underwhelming in sales terms, still made a profit for Nintendo. They also have an absolutely enormous amount of money banked away.

Saying that Nintendo can plausably cease producing console hardware after the next generation isn't something that's really backed up by the information that's available to us.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:18   #44
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
If you want multiplayer games, I'd probably say a Gamecube: the PS2 only has 2 controller ports, and in all too many games on the X-Box multiplayer, even offline multiplayer, is forced through XB Live.

The PS2 has by far the largest library (partially because it's the oldest), but the only thing it's really got that the other two haven't got is a pile of Japanese RPGs (FFX, Disgaia, that kind of thing).

I personally just don't think there's enough games on the X-Box worth buying, although that's with a PC.

Your PC crashing isn't really a problem, as buying a new, decent, PC would barely cost more than the initial price of the new round of consoles, although it is more for single player gaming in many ways.
Thanks.

Where would be the cheapest place to buy one? (Or "Can I save any money by not going and getting one from Game?")
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:20   #45
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Proteus
Thanks.

Where would be the cheapest place to buy one? (Or "Can I save any money by not going and getting one from Game?")
They'll all be pretty cheap at the moment. I think Game do 2nd hand gamecubes for £30 or £40, for example. X-Boxes and PS2s I don't know about, and buying a second hand one can be problematic anyway, because some iterations of the builds of those consoles had DVD drives that were erratic to say the least.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:23   #46
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That's an utterly invalid comparison. Sega's failure is generally regarded as being down to releasing the new iteration of console far too swiftly after the previous one - and of course, that it was losing money hand over fist from the Saturn onwards.

The Gamecube, although underwhelming in sales terms, still made a profit for Nintendo. They also have an absolutely enormous amount of money banked away.

Saying that Nintendo can plausably cease producing console hardware after the next generation isn't something that's really backed up by the information that's available to us.
it was a bad comparison but it wasn't exactly what i meant. My point was more that it will be what sees it fall back into third place completely; the main gimmick of the Revolution appears to be that it is small, but since it's not actually portable I don't see this as being an effective selling point. Furthermore, the PSP will almost certainly hammer the DS into oblivion, meaning Nintendo's traditional fort of handheld games is also ceded to Sony. Hopefully they'll go into cross-platform game development, as Sega did, in not too long: healthy for them if they start to make losses, healthy for gamers. Everything hinges on the Revolution and i suspect there won't be any ace up the sleeve other than making it little.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 20:26   #47
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
some iterations of the builds of those consoles had DVD drives that were erratic to say the least.
true. horribly, horribly true. but even if you do get landed with one such model (at least with the PS2) it's still workable (if a reboot won't do it, returning the game for a new copy will) and you could probably return it anyway, given the circumstances.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 21:30   #48
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Furthermore, the PSP will almost certainly hammer the DS into oblivion, meaning Nintendo's traditional fort of handheld games is also ceded to Sony.
everybody seems to be forgetting that the DS was never intended to beat the PSP, that will come in the form of the new Game Boy. Also, nobody (accept Jakiri) seems to realise that Nintendo are the only company that are actually still making a profit from the current generation of consoles.







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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:24   #49
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Phang
the main gimmick of the Revolution appears to be that it is small, but since it's not actually portable I don't see this as being an effective selling point.
I don't know, there's been enough "lol xbox hueg" around that some sales may have been lost; plus, for a console with many more "party" games than the others, the small size may be a huge advantage.

The biggest reason to back the Revolution to do better than the Gamecube is that it fixes all the mistakes that the Gamecube made: full DVD drive, proper online support, less "kiddy" looking (oh hey, purple plastic and a handle!). The DVD drive may be a nonstarter at this stage, as DVD players may well be reaching saturation, but the second two are definite factors. Of course, I'm not sure if "proper online support" was necessary a failure for the GC; X-Box Live made an enormous loss (hell, Microsoft have only made a profit in ONE QUARTER (ie 3 months, not 1/4 of whole) of the X-Box's lifespan, and that was solely down to Halo 2), and is still making an enormous loss, and even Sony's half hearted support hasn't had any tangible benefits (although of course, this is a fairly simplistic view, as it's impossible to say how many people bought consoles or games just becaues of, say, XBL; the figures I saw only included the subscription fees, but then as the X-Box has been a massive lossmaker overall, I'd say the lack of specific data for this is pretty irrelevent).

That isn't of course to say that the companies were necessarily wrong in their approaches; Nintendo repeatedly stated they didn't want to enter the online market until there was money in it (which there obviously wasn't), and the X-Box was all about heavy-handed acquisition of market share.

I, personally, would probably be most likely to buy the X-360 (which is a shitty name, Xenon was much better. But then that's always the way with Codenames; Katmai and Clawhammer are much more interesting than Pentium III and Athlon 64), as I haven't got an X-Box and I've got a Gamecube and a PS2 (I think I'm right in thinking that all three consoles are back compatable; I know there was some issues in the X-Box's case because the previous iteration was based on an nVidia chipset and the new one is ATi, but if memory serves back compatability has been announced). If, or rather, how soon, I get the others is more dependent on launch titles than in the X-360's case, as there's already a large inaccessable library that will open up for me. Going by previous trends, I'll probably not get the PS3 until near the end of its life - not being a major game publisher in their own right (oh hey, SWG!) hurts Sony a lot in this regard. There are of course downsides to the X-360; I don't particularly like the direction Live is going, if the quotes I've seen tell the full side of the story in terms of online privacy issues, and I'm cyncial about the prospects of microcontent downloads, but then I get enough multiplayer satisfaction out of the PC for now - the games I'm interested in on the X-Box tend to be single player ones anyway (as far as I know, Jade Empire is an X-Box exclusive, for example).

What would be interesting to see is the number of repeat customers for the other two consoles (ie one breaks, get a new one). If people are proportionately spending more of the gamecube market share on games rather than the console itself, that may explain why the Nintendo console is the most profitable one, as the hardware itself is always a loss leader.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:24   #50
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

That started its life as a concept for a much shorter post.
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