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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 16:49   #1
1-X
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is Norway really the best country in the world?

ok they may not have lions, but as this bbc article states,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/4223148.stm

they consistently top the UN country rankings, and seem to have social equality and a fair wage system that would horrify a typical western government. Would this be possible without the oil money or is it part of the 'national character' to be egalitarian and 'frown on wealth'? Could a similar system ever be introduced in the UK/US?

so... Is everything really so wonderful in Norway? (apart from the price of beer)
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:06   #2
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Damn you 1-X, I was all ready to reply with "How much is a price of beer?" suggesting it's not the best country
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:16   #3
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

It's a good country to live in compared to many countries around the world. but it's not like we "earned" it. The oil, fish and whatsoever just happened to be here.

What I dislike is that we got all these oil money, but yet we don't use any of them. They're just gathering up in a fund for our children and those who comes after the next several hundred years. We could use them on schools, older people homes (those homes were sick old people stay in, cant remember the word) and on fighting powerty within our borders to get homeless people out of the streets. But it's not like that's gonna happen with our "holy" prime minister Bondevik. Good thing his period is over tomorrow when the election is

Anyway, it might be silly to complain about our schools etc as they're pretty good, compared to the rest of the world. But why not make it better when we gott he resources to do it?



Btw: It's election day tomorrow, FRP and Carl I. Hagen for Prime Minister!
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:30   #4
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Its one of the richest countries for sure, beautifull nature, but heh, if you smoke you'll be poor very soon and they suck at football

Also i dont really like the influence of religion on politics witrh thois current prime minister
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:32   #5
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by sigrid
Its one of the richest countries for sure, beautifull nature, but heh, if you smoke you'll be poor very soon and they suck at football

Also i dont really like the influence of religion on politics witrh thois current prime minister
Pretty much sums it up
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:06   #6
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Norway is a great country to live in, if youre white, educated and have a good network. If not, you become another number that nobody cares about, beacause the newspapers got more interesting things to write about, like spreading fear/racism, big tits and expensive gas.

It might be the best country for the majority, but if youre a drugaddict, punk, youth, elderly or regular student, it might just not be that good. And if youre a second or third generation immigrant (youth), or even worse, a youth not born in Norway, you're in real trouble.

Fair enough, our beer prices are high, but thats not my biggest concern with our "great" society.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:42   #7
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

No lions though
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:50   #8
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

extremely high suicide rate.
The only people i've met from Norway are quite wierd.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:55   #9
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Am I the only person who thinks having a bus driver and a doctor earning the same wage is a bad idea?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:57   #10
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Am I the only person who thinks having a bus driver and a doctor earning the same wage is a bad idea?
I think doctors will agree with you, although the Bus drivers probably wont.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:58   #11
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
No lions though
theyre only in Kenya
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:59   #12
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
I think doctors will agree with you, although the Bus drivers probably wont.
Oh look it's the fallacy of subjectivism rearing it's ugly head. Hello dear, I haven't seen you for a while.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:01   #13
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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No lions though
or tigers.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:03   #14
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
No lions though
only in kenya.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:23   #15
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Oh look it's the fallacy of subjectivism rearing it's ugly head. Hello dear, I haven't seen you for a while.
tee hee.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:24   #16
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
or tigers.
So what do you feed the mexicans to ?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:46   #17
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Buss drivers earn around 250.000-280.000 NOK per year.
A doctor easily earns 380.000 NOK. After a few years he/she will earn around 600.000NOK.

If the doctor starts a private practise, he can earn 1mill NOK per year. Or two.
(and tax on work are in many cases twice as high as tax on capital)

8 NOK = 1 Euro

And Snurx; drugaddicts are ****ed everywhere, so nothing new there.

Im currently busy with a paper about methologic problems in social sciences that has to be handed in by tomorrow at 1300. So I might write something more tomorrow. Or something.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 22:00   #18
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
However as was recently discussed in another thread recently (i think) albeit breifly money is rarely the prime motivation for people interested in such subjects. Well obviously i'm not sure, infact having just said that i'm reminded of the asian immigrant family stereotype, with wanting the kids to become doctors i would of thought this came from a desire for status/riches as opposed to a thirst for healing people. However, what of researchers, scientists, teachers, philosophers are these jobs not wanted by those driven by something other than money ?
I believe the question for most people should be what do they deserve, not what can society get away with fobbing them off with.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:07   #19
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
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We obey the US in nearly all matters of foreign politics.
This had led famous Norwegian Johan Galtung to claim that "The Norwegian Depertment of Foreign Affairs consists of a fax machine linked to the White House, a photocopier, and beside that naught"....
Does Noway actually have an army or do they just lend moral support?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:20   #20
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Communism
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:26   #21
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Having already read the article when it appeared, I have to say it sounds quite ace, and were it not for the cold climate I would consider becoming an ex-pat there.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:26   #22
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Does Noway actually have an army or do they just lend moral support?
We have an arny, but even Sweden could eat that army in one night
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:37   #23
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Norway hardly needs a huge conventional army. It's not like al quaeda are going to launch a seaborne invasion of Oslo anytime soon is it? Remember that one should not try and fight the last war!
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:47   #24
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

As long as they just invaded Oslo, I wouldnt give a damn shit. Oh wait, I got family and friends there

There is no standing army in Norway, expect the coast guard, the people looking after King&Parlament and the poor bastards freezing their arses off watching the russians.

Our Special Forces (FSK) is very popular with NATO. And as they can skii and cope with cold weather, they were some of the first thing the US asked for in NATO after they invaded Afganistan.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:50   #25
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

If it were upto me norwegians would have formed the first rank of every british unit that ever charged an enemy.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:53   #26
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
They might blow up an oil rig. That would be a very clever thing to do if someone wanted to raise a bit of a havoc.
Yeah, I can see where 500 tanks would come in handy there. "Quick shoot them with the heavy artillery while they're hiding behind that expensive piece of equipment over there!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
If it were upto me norwegians would have formed the first rank of every british unit that ever charged an enemy.
Brings a whole new meaning to the words forlorn hope doesn't it?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:57   #27
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by Nantoz
The Charge of the Moonshine Brigade.
ROFL
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:59   #28
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yeah, I can see where 500 tanks would come in handy there. "Quick shoot them with the heavy artillery while they're hiding behind that expensive piece of equipment over there!"
We don't have 500 tanks.
I belive we have 160 Leopard 1A4 and Leopard 1A5.

And then we have leased 30 or so Leopard 2A4 from Holland to use abroad.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:01   #29
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

What the hell? I'm saying they're bloody pointless, it doesn't matter how many of them you have.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:05   #30
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Yeah, I know.

You just reminded me off all the useless stuff I learned while serving at a divisional commandpost while doing my time

And a few days ago I recived a letter telling Im up for "active mobilization", so I might be called in for exercise somewhere in norwegian siberia around march/april

(Note to Nantoz: The Lepards I's are totally out of date. Both the 1A4 and 1A5 versions.)
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:13   #31
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

The current UN criteria effectively measure the degree to which a country has implemented socialism, and given that Norway is pretty socialist, its hardly surprising that it consistently gets put as #1. If the UN decided to rank countries based on how well Jews were accepted, then Israel would probably end up being the 'best', but I dont know why anyone would think this proves anything more or less than the current rankings.

Its meaningless to talk about something being the 'best', except relative to some given set of criteria. If you like socialism then youre probably going to like Norway.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:21   #32
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Oh yeah, theres also the fact that they havent managed to get around to abolishing slavery yet. And the whole 80%+ rate of taxation thing.

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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:39   #33
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by Nantoz
what?
The institution of slavery still exists in Norway, although its normally restricted to a years service for young adults.


Quote:
The UN Human Development Index measures the average achievements in a country in three basic dimensions of human development:
Yes, and most of these criteria measure the degree of access to certain things which the 'average' person has. Its a horrible egalitarian criteria, which is obviously going to be biased in favour of countries which implement systems deliberately designed to guarantee facilities to the mediocre at the expense of those who produce. Very few of their criteria assess things like the degree to which productive people are left alone by the state, or civil liberties, or anything thats actually important.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 00:49   #34
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Norway is shit. I can't believe real countries that aren't part of Africa/the Middle East/etc have national service.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 01:07   #35
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The institution of slavery still exists in Norway, although its normally restricted to a years service for young adults.


Yes, and most of these criteria measure the degree of access to certain things which the 'average' person has. Its a horrible egalitarian criteria, which is obviously going to be biased in favour of countries which implement systems deliberately designed to guarantee facilities to the mediocre at the expense of those who produce. Very few of their criteria assess things like the degree to which productive people are left alone by the state, or civil liberties, or anything thats actually important.
I think its conscription you are aiming at?

I agree, that is slavery.

I was conscripted and served my time earning nothing pr day etc. Boring as hell.

Anyways, Norway will always be a very good place to live, the social problems Norway has is totally neglible if you compare it to other countries. We do have a worrying increase between rich and poor and we traditionally tend to copy every american situation. It would be very interesting if the social coaltion between the left wing parties and labor wins the election tomorrow. I think they can change the increasing gap between rich and poor. Hopefully without selling their souls as sacrifice.

Norway stands for several challenges. If it hadnt been for our immigrants (god bless them) we would have seen a downscale in population in Norway, and with the increased amount of elderly people it might look like we need to rethink the way we host our elderly people and that we educate and employ more people to work with the pensionists. That is the biggest challenge Norway will meet in the next 20 year.

Other issues we will face in the future is probably a redefining of our military system (allready being worked on). We need to cut the ties between the strong labor union to certain political parties. We also got an increasing dissatisfaction about crimes, and atm we simply dont have room for more people in jails in Norway, so criminals must sometimes wait 7-8 months before they can do their time. This is worrying since we a) want the criminals to be behind bars, and b) since the criminals must go and wait and cannot do much else than wait.

The increase of our very well developed health care system is unfortunally having a somewhat strange side effect, people get sick more often and rely on the goverment to help them with their expenses during long time recouperation (or lazyness in some eyes).

We also struggle for the split between the church and the state. The church claims to be dead broke. (Wich is a lie ofc, they have over 20 billion NoK stacked away in bank accounts and properties but wont use) Some norweigan parties wants the Church to be separated, and if the left wing coalition wins it might happen.

We also have had a somewhat strange problem lately, we have had a power shortage. Our Hydro-electrical plants wont produce enough power to heat and light up norway. Many wants to build heavy pollution gas power plants but some opposes. This problem can mainly be traced back to the situation with the state lifting their ownerships of the electrical companies and their heavy focus on exporting power, wich mainly gives ourselves more expensive power and the fact that we at times need to import power because we've used all our reserves during the summer.

All in all some minor challanges awaits Norway in the future, but all in all, most population should feel satisfied. But since alot of norweigans are a big bunch of whiners we tend to complain way to much.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 01:13   #36
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
The institution of slavery still exists in Norway, although its normally restricted to a years service for young adults.
Anyone can get away from it, if they want. It hasnt always been like that, but the last decade has seen it easier and easier to escape. Several of my friends gotten away without any trouble fx.

And its not only a duty, but its also a right as a citizen. But I don't expect you to understand the duality of it.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 01:19   #37
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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And its not only a duty, but its also a right as a citizen. But I don't expect you to understand the duality of it.
we call this 'brain washing'
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 05:29   #38
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The current UN criteria effectively measure the degree to which a country has implemented socialism
Not really. It's more to do with outcomes - that's why Norway is 1st and China is 94th. Or why the United States is 44 places higher than Cuba.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 08:12   #39
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

The Netherlands had national services till a few years ago. Tho its a burden on those who want to start a career after studies, there is something to say for it also. As soon as a country gets a proffesional army (so no services atall anymore) the level of well educated soldiers drops fast. In many countries (hello USA) you join the army if you really have no other option, i.e if you are poor, not too clever, badly educated and have no future.
Lets face it, the woman (i forgot her name) who was cgarged for molesting and humiliating POW's was later tested slightly retarded....I mean..retarded. Its a fking disgrace ppl like that are able to join the army of the greatest military force of the world and gets a job like she did.

My point mainly is tho, that public services does do some good for a countries army, and will keep the army closer to society also.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 08:43   #40
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

lots of countries in Europe have national service.
it's not that bad an idea in my opinion.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 11:23   #41
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

I agree Ste.

And nodrog, not everything your grandfather, who worked for IG Farben, told you were true. OK?
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 11:46   #42
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Norway has lots of sexy women, it gets my vote.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 11:50   #43
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
My point mainly is tho, that public services does do some good for a countries army, and will keep the army closer to society also.
as I recall it the army is there to serve the people not the other way around.

all this waffling crap you produced about how important it is to have 'educated soldiers' i'm going to ignore as an act of kindness to you.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 11:52   #44
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
as I recall it the army is there to serve the people not the other way around.

all this waffling crap you produced about how important it is to have 'educated soldiers' i'm going to ignore as an act of kindness to you.
I think you, in all your holyness, didnot get my point at all.
Are you american by any chance?
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 11:57   #45
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

All americans use pictures of the British Empire as avatars.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 12:17   #46
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

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Originally Posted by Ste
lots of countries in Europe have national service.
it's not that bad an idea in my opinion.
All of these countries are shit.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 12:26   #47
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
All of these countries are shit.
Name one country in Europe that isn't?
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 12:41   #48
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

I can't. But those countries are shitter than the ones without.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 12:51   #49
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Austria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Norway, Poland and Switzerland are all countries that have national service...
The fact that France isn't listed shows that your logic is flawed.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 12:55   #50
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Re: is Norway really the best country in the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Austria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Norway, Poland and Switzerland are all countries that have national service...
The fact that France isn't listed shows that your logic is flawed.

I sort of think switserland cancelled it last or this year even.
Could be they just cancelled some division, now i think about it...

Oh hell, i dunno Ignore this post

Last edited by sigrid; 12 Sep 2005 at 13:01.
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