elections

[Curufinwe]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

you cant fix the whole system in a few years. the epnsion system is going to collapse and there isnt much that can be done about that. same with healthcare, although a lower unemployment rate might help.
as for the unemployment: our main problem is the domestic demand, and you certainly dont fix that by scaring people into saving even more of their money. im afraid CDU/FDP are going to overshot it when they run the country alone.

True, it will take more than a few years, but maybe a slight upward trend might lead to people feeling better and spending more. With less unemployment the health care system and the general financial situation of the country would get better but the pension system needs to be completely changed, demographics cannot be changed. But this is something no politician will touch until the whole thing blows up in our face because they are to scared.
I am by no means sold on the idea that a CDU/FDP will solve the problems but I would be willing to give them a try because I know who cannot solve them. The one or two years the red/green coalition (with the beloved Lafontaine) had at the beginning were they were able to pugh through their agenda saw taking back changed of the old government and making concessions to the unions for their support in the campaign. And what happened with the oh so great Agenda 2010, back came some of the concepts from the old government and the most other changes were undone.

[Curufinwe]

Originally Posted by Texan

Did you ever consider sending all of the foreigners living off of the social system back to their home countries? Maybe also have German people do the work instead of bringing in labor from other countries.

This would not work:
- First of will be called a Nazi the second you suggest something like that basically making the idea unacceptable
- I would guess that most of the Germans would not want to do the jobs done by foreigners because they are to hard and / or not payed well enough
- I agree with wo_trax that more immigration is needed for this country to survive as I highly doubt the birthrate will go up dramatically the coming years and even then a the demographic problem would persist. However more immigration only makes sense when more efforts are made to integrate those people coming better in our country. It is just ridiculous to have classrooms with 20 children of which only two can speak and understand German well enough to follow class.

[Texan]

My wife knows some Turks, and she tells me that most of them abuse the social system. I suspect other nationalities abuse the system as well. I know one German who abuses the social system, too but at least she is a German, and has two German children. Once the foreigners outnumber the Germans, it won't be Germany any more. If they are German citizens, you can't very well send them off to some other country. But if they don't want to be Germans, then let them be non-Germans outside of Germany.

I believe if you stopped the immigration, companies that needed employees for the lousy jobs would have to offer more pay to get the work done.

If someone calls you a Nazi, punch them in the mouth. I'm not talking about killing them. Just sending them to their country of citizenship.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Texan

I believe if you stopped the immigration, companies that needed employees for the lousy jobs would have to offer more pay to get the work done.

This policy is very unlikely to be adopted since businesses are pretty much entirely against it. You're correct that wages would increase in response to shortages in labour, but businesses would then cry about international competetiveness and the policy would be instantly abandoned.

Besides, it's not just a wages issue - some jobs are almost "taboo" in some circles. Even if they're OK paying, the feeling is that the "indigineous" population of European countries simply don't want to do certain types of jobs (probably because people are treated like shit but that's another matter). I'm not sure how true that is, but that's what we're told.

edit : Also, you're taking a rather American view of the citizenship issue. Even if the Turks had German citizenship wouldn't make a huge amount of difference (imho) in the overall sense. Most European countries still have an ethno-national basis to national identity (rightly or wrongly). The North-African's in France maybe French citiizens, but that doesn't mean they're particularly well integrated.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

.....(and build the wall, a notion i would pretty much support right now, as long as they build it at the same place, not around the whole country). .....

oi, I'm in the east.

[Radical Edward]

the other day a German chap, who knows my wife is Chinese, was telling me how he thought that foreigners were bad for Germany. I thought he was a bit thick saying this to me, given that I am also a foreigner in Germany and hoped that he would **** off.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

the other day a German chap, who knows my wife is Chinese, was telling me how he thought that foreigners were bad for Germany. I thought he was a bit thick saying this to me, given that I am also a foreigner in Germany and hoped that he would **** off.

you probably look more 'aryan' than most foreigners. someone from uk who has been living here for just a few years is, by most people, regarded less of a foreigner than some turk who has been living here for 30-40 years.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

you probably look more 'aryan' than most foreigners. someone from uk who has been living here for just a few years is, by most people, regarded less of a foreigner than some turk who has been living here for 30-40 years.

well he knows I am English. he was just a bit dim. He also thinks the Chinese eat nothing but dogs and Sushi and said he will never go to China because he doesn't like communists. I know what you mean though, the vietnamese and turks have a bit of a bad reputation round here. My wife hates being mistaken for vietnamese or a passport chaser.

[wu_trax]

and the poles always steal stuff. there are far too many stereotypes around here. its a bit sad, really, i mean what would the country look like without 'Dönerbuden' and turkish travel agents?

[wu_trax]

small update if anyone cares enough:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4144812.stm
it looks like the CDU is trying really hard to lose the election. im not sure yet if they will suceed, but if they go on like this they may just make it.

[Marilyn Manson]

Surely you mean Stoiber is trying hard to lose the election again?

Can't they send him on a 'factfinding mission' to Tahiti for the duration of the campaign or something? That's what we'd do here.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Surely you mean Stoiber is trying hard to lose the election again?

Can't they send him on a 'factfinding mission' to Tahiti for the duration of the campaign or something? That's what we'd do here.

nono, there was some other guy just a few days ago aswell from the east of all places. he said something about the 'proletarisation of the public' during the GDR.
our politicians seem to have gone completly nuts. first the left splits into two and now the right tears itself apart.

[Texan]

What are those taboo jobs you mentioned earlier in the thread? A comprehensive list would be nice, but at least give me a sampling if you are pressed for time.