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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 23:55   #1
s|k
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Oblivion

I've been bad, very bad. :0

Vampire for 60 days now also. :0

I totally recommend this game, the dark brotherhood + thieves guild missions are
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 00:37   #2
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Re: Oblivion

you need to steal some horses and tresspass more.

and add some colour to your charecter.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 02:39   #3
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Re: Oblivion

I don't have a large bounty because I never been caught. Except for one mission where I had to kill an imperial guard and I didn't feel like waiting for her to be alone. Also I don't need to steel horse, I have a shadow horse that attacks with me lol.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 05:37   #4
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Re: Oblivion

Enchanted clothes and rings to give a permanent 100% chameleon, \o/, do what the hell you like and the guards can't see you to attack you even when you slap them around a bit.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 06:27   #5
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Re: Oblivion

I hate it that everything arounds you level like you do. It's more like an adventure that way instead of an rpg. Maybe I reinstall the game the day I grew over that dissapointment.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 08:22   #6
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
I hate it that everything arounds you level like you do. It's more like an adventure that way instead of an rpg. Maybe I reinstall the game the day I grew over that dissapointment.
Yeah I hate that part too. It never feels like you get any stronger. Although the meat crabs don't, it's about the only thing I'm killing with one shot these days, unless I'm sneaking and have some magic arrows.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 08:48   #7
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
I hate it that everything arounds you level like you do. It's more like an adventure that way instead of an rpg. Maybe I reinstall the game the day I grew over that dissapointment.
There are mods that change that, if not finished then in production.

The worst time to play a Bethesda game is straight after release, as almost all of the "flaws" and many other things you wouldn't have noticed get "fixed" by the mod community.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 08:53   #8
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Re: Oblivion

Yeah i know about these mods, but I just can't play a game like that as it feels like cheating, like I'm not playing the game the way the creators intended it to be

Same why I can't play Morrowind, I hate the long tedious traveling but I'll be damned if I'm going to use some kind of speed walk cheat.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 09:57   #9
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Re: Oblivion

i think i have about 20 game days in (lvl11) and i have killed both more creatures and more people than you (i slaughtered an entire mythic dawn hideout last night, 10 on 1 odds at one point and i still killed them all )
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 09:57   #10
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Re: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
Yeah i know about these mods, but I just can't play a game like that as it feels like cheating, like I'm not playing the game the way the creators intended it to be
Game makers aren't infallable, which is so obviously true with Bethesda games it's hardly worth mentioning.

If it improves the game for you, it's worth it; your subseequent Morrowind comment seems to imply that you consider mods and cheats to be on the same level, even if the mods are things like the ability to rotate objects that you're holding.

Something like a different levelling system, or rebalanced game world, is not a cheat, and I don't think anything that you can do could be called a cheat in a game where there is a legitimate in-game way to make yourself completely invulnerable to enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
Same why I can't play Morrowind, I hate the long tedious traveling but I'll be damned if I'm going to use some kind of speed walk cheat.
Alchemy. The "main plot" bit of Morrowind can be finished in 20 minutes or so, I don't think you can do anything more abusive with alchemy than was already common.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 16:51   #11
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Re: Oblivion

I'm going to have to back silversmoke on that one. I don't like mods. I feel the same way he does about playing the game the way it was intended. I never install mods. I respect some of the things they fix, like getting rid of those damned birds in morrowind and fixing the horse muckup in this game, but I just don't like mods. Also, it does feel like you get stronger once you can start knocking down opponents with attacks or sneak past them undetected.

RR: I've been playing a bad guy, most of my people kills are imperials. Also, I'm wearing the Dark Brotherhood listener's robe. Look at my infamy. And playing as vampire. Which means that I can't come out at day time most of the time, unless I've fed recently, which is a major handicap.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 17:02   #12
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by s|k
I feel the same way he does about playing the game the way it was intended.
Suit yourself, I'd prefer playing a good game to a less good game that was designed by slightly fewer people.

Your stance also assumes that games actually end up like their designers wanted, and that a game designer getting their own way is a "good thing".

Certainly, the main designer for Oblivion has a large number of ideas about game design that make it a much worse game than it could have been.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 17:21   #13
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Re: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
RR: I've been playing a bad guy, most of my people kills are imperials. Also, I'm wearing the Dark Brotherhood listener's robe. Look at my infamy. And playing as vampire. Which means that I can't come out at day time most of the time, unless I've fed recently, which is a major handicap.

yeah but dude, 60 days i would have to kill more stuff than that in 60 days worth of play time, also, RE: the vampire thing, its a bonus to be able to go out in daylght sometimes, just because you get more bonuses the more vampiric you are, doesnt mean you should overlook the fact that occationally its much easier to get stuff done the other way
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 17:52   #14
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
yeah but dude, 60 days i would have to kill more stuff than that in 60 days worth of play time, also, RE: the vampire thing, its a bonus to be able to go out in daylght sometimes, just because you get more bonuses the more vampiric you are, doesnt mean you should overlook the fact that occationally its much easier to get stuff done the other way
Well why kill when I can just sneak around them. My sneak is over 100. I've been doing missions mostly for all the guilds, I'm now doing the fighters guild missions. I think if I get a powerful enough magical bow I will do the mage missions too. I made my own class 'ninja': sneak, security, marksman, light armor (I should have made this hand to hand as I don't wear any armor), restoration, athletics, acrobatics

Oh, and this is my second game, and this time around I am not doing any of the main missions until I finish all of the guild missions, all of the town missions, and AFTER I've gone dungeon hunting. Why? Because I don't have to deal with oblivion gates. There's only one gate, and it is only at Katch, and until I go in there and close that one the rest of the map is free from gates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Suit yourself, I'd prefer playing a good game to a less good game that was designed by slightly fewer people.

Your stance also assumes that games actually end up like their designers wanted, and that a game designer getting their own way is a "good thing".

Certainly, the main designer for Oblivion has a large number of ideas about game design that make it a much worse game than it could have been.
I understand your point, and I totally agree that mods can make a game a lot more fun, especially when it has as many issues as this one. I liked C&C Tiberian sun mods a lot.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 18:17   #15
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Re: Oblivion

You left the gate at Kvatch?

You're screwed as far as the main plot goes.

Unless you install mods, of course!
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 20:26   #16
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You left the gate at Kvatch?

You're screwed as far as the main plot goes.

Unless you install mods, of course!
No I haven't even taken the emporer's amulet that I was given to the monk yet. I have done 0 main missions, I've not even gone into kvatch. The main plot is not ruined for me, I'm just not pursuing it yet.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 20:36   #17
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by s|k
No I haven't even taken the emporer's amulet that I was given to the monk yet. I have done 0 main missions, I've not even gone into kvatch. The main plot is not ruined for me, I'm just not pursuing it yet.
I didn't say it was ruined, I said you were screwed.

Unless it's been patched (which, at the rate Bethesda patch things it probably hasn't been) Kvatch is supremely difficult if you're more than level 2 or 3 when you go in, because the enemies level but your allies don't.

There was a mod to fix this very quickly, of course.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 21:23   #18
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Re: Oblivion

I did kvatch at level 9, no problems.

It was a fun game, but I killed most things with one shot so it became boring just as I finished the main quest. I became too powerfull
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 22:33   #19
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Re: Oblivion

I did Kvatch at level 37. Hoho! lets see my feeble allies get utterly raped in under 3 seconds by a horde of storm atronach's and dearagoths.

And then I modded the game with a large number of interface hacks and balancing mods. They made the game much more playable and interesting. Especially the interface mods, which were a godsend: being able to see more than six items at a time in your inventory = ace.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 23:11   #20
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I didn't say it was ruined, I said you were screwed.

Unless it's been patched (which, at the rate Bethesda patch things it probably hasn't been) Kvatch is supremely difficult if you're more than level 2 or 3 when you go in, because the enemies level but your allies don't.

There was a mod to fix this very quickly, of course.
Katch is nothing. I just have to find the dead count. I can sneak past everyone.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 23:36   #21
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by s|k
I totally recommend this game, the dark brotherhood + thieves guild missions are
The problem I had with the game, was that you've just highlighted it's only two good parts, other than perhaps it's obviously highly advanced and great looking graphics engine.

What I found to be the main flaw in Oblivion isn't really as much fixable by mods - namely the fact that most things are either highly repetitive (the actual Oblivion portals), or fairly useless, such as emptying some random cave in the middle of nowhere to get a few pieces of loot that you really don't need because you got better through some other quest. The questlines that have been properly worked out with a sense of variety and as such are fun to play through are the ones that you mentioned above.

Additionally, it doesn't help that the entire world seems to have about five different people in it, judging by the voices - and frequently one character will have lines spoken by several different voice actors, which gets a big to begin with; and that the much appraised Radiant AI seems to bring little to nothing to the table as characters' own decisions turn out to be quite ridiculous, such as starting up conversations with a "Hey, hello! How are you?" right after they ended a previous one.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:10   #22
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Re: Oblivion

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Originally Posted by Leshy
What I found to be the main flaw in Oblivion isn't really as much fixable by mods
Yes and no. One of the best things about Morrowind was the sense of scale it gave the game, by having you discover quest locations on your own and no fast travel. Having that would make Oblivion a hell of a lot better as an actual game, as would not having the monsters and loot level up with you - wandering into the middle of nowhere in Morrowind could easily get you killed, but if you triumphed then you got, say, glass armour at level 4.

All of these problems are in theory fixable through mods - although you would have to, for instance, redo the entire way the spawning system worked, balance the areas, distribute loot and the like.

For the first concern, the task would be even greater. It's trivial to remove the quest objective location and fast travel (except maybe between cities), but as the quest dialogue assumes location markers you would have to rewrite all the quest dialogue, otherwise you would never know where you'd be going.

I suspect this will have been done before TESV comes out.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:17   #23
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Re: Oblivion

Speaking of Morrowind, did you see this guy beat Morrowind in 8 minutes?

I thought the architecture of the buildings was better and the terrain was more diverse in morrowind, and while I find fast travel handy, I think it cheapens the game.

Also the last thieves guild mission is so far the most fun I've had in Oblivion, and in games in general in the last few months.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:47   #24
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Re: Oblivion

Up until Oblivion, Cyrodiil was much more interesting than how it eventually appeared. The core of the empire was a lush jungle rather than the medieval northern europe, as it eventually appeared.

Unfortunately, one of the design philosophies that was enforced was that "everything must have a real world equiivilent". Whilst you can understand why Morrowind feels much more alien (Dwemer ruins, edge of the empire, what have you) and why Cyodiil feels more standard (seat of the empire) to my mind it's an opportunity lost; jungle settings have never really been used in RPGs, and the engine could definitely cope with it.
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