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6 Jun 2005, 23:55
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Africa
I just saw this advert about some African programme and it was talking about all the countries and languages and such and I was wondering if there are any African countries which aren't a mess?
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The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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6 Jun 2005, 23:56
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#2
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First Disciple of Aldur
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Vale of Aldur
Posts: 1,470
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Re: Arfica
Morocco
(lol Arfica)
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Yeah.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:02
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#3
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Arfica
Define 'mess'.
Botswana, South Africa, and many of the smaller states are usually considered to be doing rather well, at least, relative to other African countries.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:05
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#4
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Insanely Insignificant
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 1,056
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Re: Arfica
They're all a mess by western standards.
Though South Africa, Morocco, and Egypt are quite nice to visit from my experience*.
*has nothing to do with whether they are a 'mess' or not.
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Very nearly there.
All is nothing, without you.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:08
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#5
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: Arfica
Tunisia.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:13
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#6
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Arfica
I think we can certainly say that Somalia and the DRC are two African countries which are, by any normal use of the term, 'in a mess.'
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7 Jun 2005, 00:14
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#7
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Insanely Insignificant
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 1,056
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Re: Arfica
I'd place Zimbabwe firmly in the 'in a mess' category too.
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Very nearly there.
All is nothing, without you.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:15
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#8
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Arfica
I wonder what goes on in Chad.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:17
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#9
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Arfica
british somaliland is doing well
but the UN won't recognise them as a sepparate state from somalia
meanies.
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hi
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7 Jun 2005, 00:22
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#10
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Arfica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
british somaliland is doing well
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You should apply for the position of governor.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:24
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#11
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Arfica
that was a living death even back in the days of the empire ...
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hi
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7 Jun 2005, 00:36
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#12
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: Arfica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I wonder what goes on in Chad.
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I was on the verge of giving you a pos rep, since you know that Chad is a country in Africa.
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<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
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7 Jun 2005, 00:40
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
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Re: Arfica
Think Kenya is doing rather well. Libyia isn't a mess, just not very democratic.
One of the biggest problems much of Africa is faced with is the AIDS epidemic, I think South Africa - which scores nicely on economy, edcucation, etc - has almost 25% of the population infected with HIV.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:46
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#14
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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Re: Africa
changed spelling
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Forum Administrator
Mail : [email protected] // IRC : #forums
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It's not personal, it's just business.
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7 Jun 2005, 00:50
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#15
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Evul Critter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: York
Posts: 255
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Re: Africa
Nantoz where did you get that statistic from? 25%?
I hear new HIV/Aids statistics for Africa all the time, there is a new set everytime the issue is mentioned on the news... Yet Africa isn't depopulating... Infact most countries, including the areas worst affected by Aids, are growing healthily in population. I'm damn sure Aids is a problem but i disagree with people hightlighting it all the time. It costs $300 to treat someone who has aids, that is to make them more comfortable and to live for slightly longer.
The biggest killing diseases in Africa are Malaria, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Mumps and Rubella and a whole string of other diseases that we DON'T have in the UK. Most are treatable or have vaccines that cost a whole lot less than the treatment for Aids, but no one gives a monkies about the 100,000 people killed by TB etc, because Freddy Mercury didn't die of it. I wish the WHO would stop scare mongering with Aids and start helping africans with diseases we can cure heh.
I think Sudan takes the medal for the biggest mess at the moment. At a time when America and Britain can send forces to kill Iraqi's, they can't send even a peace keeping force to the Sudan to protect a few Africans.
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Critters own....
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7 Jun 2005, 00:59
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
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Re: Africa
Wrong statistics, 11% is correct for South Africa. WHO
I can't find the statistics now, but I believe there are parts of South Africa that has a prevalence of 25%, and the rate for the entire country is still on the rise.
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7 Jun 2005, 01:04
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#17
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Evul Critter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: York
Posts: 255
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Re: Africa
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Critters own....
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7 Jun 2005, 01:09
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
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Re: Africa
Good page. Truly insane prevalence in some of those areas.
I think my 25% was probably taken from:
" According to these figures, around 22.8% of all South Africans over 15 years old were HIV-positive in 2003."
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7 Jun 2005, 01:10
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#19
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Evul Critter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: York
Posts: 255
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Re: Africa
Botswana is the most interesting. WHO and other organisations set the Aids/HIV rate at around 36%.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/827276.stm in this article the population of Botswana was supposed to go into decline by 2003.... due to Aids because a third of the population have Hiv/Aids.
Yet the population is still rising.
I'm sure the stats are either being fiddled or the way the compile the data is over-guestimating the rates. Clearly they don't test everyone.
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Critters own....
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7 Jun 2005, 01:20
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
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Re: Africa
how do you know the population is still rising?
And remember what the old Earl of Beaconsfield said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin D'Israeli
There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics.
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7 Jun 2005, 01:24
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#21
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Africa
I heard that "lies" quote attributed to practically everyone from King Herod to Mark Twain. I've come to the eventual conclusion that no one really has a ****ing clue who actually said it.
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7 Jun 2005, 01:26
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#22
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Arfica
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I was on the verge of giving you a pos rep, since you know that Chad is a country in Africa.
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I was on the verge of giving you neg rep.
And then I did.
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7 Jun 2005, 01:28
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 226
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I heard that "lies" quote attributed to practically everyone from King Herod to Mark Twain. I've come to the eventual conclusion that no one really has a ****ing clue who actually said it.
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Hehehe. Good old King Herod had time for statistics between all that killing of infants?
I've heard it attributed to Twain at one time, and I think he and D'Israeli are the most likely candidates. From what I know them it fits in quite nicely with both their styles.
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7 Jun 2005, 01:29
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#24
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Evul Critter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: York
Posts: 255
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
how do you know the population is still rising?
And remember what the old Earl of Beaconsfield said:
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I just know
I can't be bothered to look for an online population chart for Botswana... I think it grew by 2.3% in 2003, something like this.
MM - that quote is attributed to Disrali and Mark Twain...
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Critters own....
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7 Jun 2005, 01:34
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#25
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
how do you know the population is still rising?
And remember what the old Earl of Beaconsfield said:
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you don't refer to 'that sort' by title but by name.
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hi
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7 Jun 2005, 10:28
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#26
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Africa
By the way noone ever told me the difference between a 'lie' and a 'damned lie'
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7 Jun 2005, 11:01
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#27
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Africa
Ghana isn't too bad...
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7 Jun 2005, 12:25
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#28
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: Africa
doesnt south africa have a silly high crime rate though?
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lazy
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7 Jun 2005, 12:26
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#29
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
doesnt south africa have a silly high crime rate though?
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Not all of it, just Johanesburg (sp?) mainly.
Thats where people have flamethrowers in the car doors to stop carjacking!
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7 Jun 2005, 12:27
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#30
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: Africa
yeah, thats what made me think that
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lazy
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7 Jun 2005, 12:38
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakoff
Nantoz where did you get that statistic from? 25%?
I hear new HIV/Aids statistics for Africa all the time, there is a new set everytime the issue is mentioned on the news... Yet Africa isn't depopulating... Infact most countries, including the areas worst affected by Aids, are growing healthily in population. I'm damn sure Aids is a problem but i disagree with people hightlighting it all the time. It costs $300 to treat someone who has aids, that is to make them more comfortable and to live for slightly longer.
The biggest killing diseases in Africa are Malaria, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Mumps and Rubella and a whole string of other diseases that we DON'T have in the UK. Most are treatable or have vaccines that cost a whole lot less than the treatment for Aids, but no one gives a monkies about the 100,000 people killed by TB etc, because Freddy Mercury didn't die of it. I wish the WHO would stop scare mongering with Aids and start helping africans with diseases we can cure heh.
I think Sudan takes the medal for the biggest mess at the moment. At a time when America and Britain can send forces to kill Iraqi's, they can't send even a peace keeping force to the Sudan to protect a few Africans.
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I agree completely, why on earth put millions upon millions into "treating" an incurable disease, infact the longer the person is alive the more likely they are to infect others. I'd much rather see the money invested in education and the treatment of curable diseases.
The majority of these people believe that sleeping with a virgin is a cure's for AID's for heavens sake.
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Last edited by ceres; 31 Aug 2011 at 07:03.
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7 Jun 2005, 12:41
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#32
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Africa
On SA : Jo'burg is worse than other cities, yeah. But most of South Africa is dangerous by Western European standards. I wouldn't necessarily think crime statistics are meaningful though (except as a very rough guide) since a lot of crime occurs in townships which would not be accurately recorded. There was some statistic about a million estimated rapes a year but that's guess-work. Some other random factoid was 1 in 5 South African girls didn't even know rape was a crime (that's almost certainly not true, but paints a picture).
As MM noted, it's relative. Bits of Africa are better than other bits, obviously. But if any Africa was some sort of amazing haven I'd imagine most citizens of their neighbours would up and move. Problems tend to spread, so a conflict in Congo is obviously likely to affect Rwanda, etc.
edit : "Africa" is a dubious entity to refer to in one go. North Africa isn't particularly similar to Sub-Saharan Africa (historically, ethnically, economically....) so it doesn't relaly make sense to refer to them in one lot (but that could be said about many things).
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7 Jun 2005, 12:43
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Not all of it, just Johanesburg (sp?) mainly.
Thats where people have flamethrowers in the car doors to stop carjacking!
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The biggest difference between J'burg and for instance Cape Town is alot of Captonians can afford personal security which goes some way to keeping down the crime figures.
I stayed with friends in Cape Town for a while, it was awful, your effectively locked in at night behind various metal gates throughout the house. Accompanying that is the panic alarms, which when pushed you must stay inside the house as minute's later 5-10 mercenary's will be jumping over your compound wall and kill anyone outside.
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Last edited by ceres; 31 Aug 2011 at 07:03.
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7 Jun 2005, 12:45
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#34
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
The majority of these people believe that sleeping with a virgin is a cure's for AID's for heavens sake.
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While there have been reported instances of people sleeping with virgins in an attempt to cure AIDS, do you have any evidence that the majority (of Africans? AIDS victims?) believe that?
You are correct that education needs to be improved, but I don't think saying things like that is helpful.
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7 Jun 2005, 12:47
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#35
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
I stayed with friends in Cape Town for a while, it was awful, your effectively locked in at night behind various metal gates throughout the house.
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The metal grills ("burgular bars") are hideous to look at, but I didn't ever feel particularly afraid walking around Cape Town late at night on my various trips. It varies wildly though ; where did you stay?
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7 Jun 2005, 13:08
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The metal grills ("burgular bars") are hideous to look at, but I didn't ever feel particularly afraid walking around Cape Town late at night on my various trips. It varies wildly though ; where did you stay?
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Durbanville
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Last edited by ceres; 31 Aug 2011 at 07:03.
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7 Jun 2005, 13:42
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#37
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
Durbanville
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I stayed around Rondebosch on most of my visits - they're a bit more laid back there. Or maybe my in-laws were trying to get me murdered by saying it was fine for me to be alone and out at night.
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