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Unread 19 Aug 2007, 19:18   #1
AdmV0rl0n
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Fleets in orbit

What would be the pro and con in allowing fleets to have the option of staying in orbit round a planet?

Currently, fleets have the ability to be at base, in transit out, in transit back home, and prelaunch. Obviously I suggest this not knowing if the combat/ship engine could handle it.

What if you could order fleets to remain in target/def for up to 3 ticks?

Discuss

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Unread 19 Aug 2007, 20:19   #2
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Re: Fleets in orbit

then dc'ing would be a bitch?
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Unread 19 Aug 2007, 23:38   #3
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Because that would suck donkey balls my friend!
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 01:23   #4
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Re: Fleets in orbit

I once suggested to give options to fleets at base (but in a fleet slot):
- patrol (initiative bonus)
- alert (armour bonus)
- dodge (the ships run from the attacker)
A fleet using one of these options would need 1 tick (more ?) to stand down and be ready for launch

About defending 3 ticks (attacking ?) why not, if the efficiency decreases each tick (1st tick: 100%, 2nd tick : 60%, 3rd tick 30 %)...
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 04:38   #5
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Re: Fleets in orbit

2 ticks would not be so bad and could be done. Back in R2 you could 3 wave a planet on attack and 6 wave on defense.

2 tick defense would make getting defense alot easier without being too difficult to land an attack. The easy work around for attackers would be to make sure that different ship types are used on each wave.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 16:39   #6
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Re: Fleets in orbit

As traveler has mentioned pre PAX defense and attacks both had longer periods which led to some interesting battles (roid cap was a smaller percentage to compensate). The stats were also a lot more complex back then, with multiple class targeting and stuff like that, but it was decided that in PAX these things made the game too complex and so they were dumbed down to the combat system we have now. There have been a lot of arguments over the years about whether these were good ideas or not, and I personally am divided over the issue myself. Needless to say it made for a lot more interesting defense and attack strategies as you had to worry about not just matching one tick of attacks but multiple ticks with the proper defense. It certainly created a ton of headache's for DCs!
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Last edited by Monroe; 20 Aug 2007 at 17:58. Reason: Fixed typo PAN -> PAX
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 16:51   #7
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Re: Fleets in orbit

PAX I presume, not PAN.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 18:23   #8
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Well with the current 1 target system, emp ships would be next to useless in multiple tick battles.

If the combat engine would be changed back to "prefered target then everything", there won't be any zero loss attack/defense anymore and emp ships would be useful.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 18:40   #9
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Why would EMP be useless?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 20:28   #10
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Why would EMP be useless?
ships which are killed in the first tick don't participate in the second tick

ships which are frozen in the first tick are ready to for the second tick (at least it was this way back in the old days)
and in case it's not a zero loss battle for the emp defenders, the attack fleet get's stronger each tick not the other way round as it is when you def with killships

Back in the old days there weren't such things like races, there were only a few emp ships and "everyone" had access to it

well i think in r3 you had to decide if you research the tarantula (the big emp ship which froze the big ships, the spider was the the small ones) or the battleship

but back then there were only 12 ships at all, 6 kill ships (1 for each class), 2 emp ships (spider an emp fi for fi,co and fr, tarantula an emp de for de,cr,bs) and 2 cloaked (can't remember the name of the small one but the big one was the ghost), an Co pod which was called pod and the Fr cargoship
every ship shooted at every class (with more or less success) and everyone who had some emp ships also had killships
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 20:44   #11
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Definately, it'd be different, and possibly harder for emp ships, but that doesn't mean that it's an unfixable problem. For example (and I stress the word "example"), one could make emp ships more efficient. Then again, emp has always been the ugly duckling, so perhaps it would be time to revert to the mixed stats of old, in which every race has steal, cloak, emp and normal ships. One could even go as far as to completely abolish races, and instead let people pick from a pool of, say, 20 ships.

On a sidenote, though I think your argument is invalid, I do agree that returning to multi-tick combat would be a bad idea. It's needlessly complicated, and requires one to be online at 1 specific time (namely at the time the first combat tick occurs, to recall before that, recall after that, or continue on), rather than somewhere in a time frame of 5 hours. In my opinion making the game more hardcore than it already is, is a bad direction for the game, and should be avoided wherever possible.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 22:44   #12
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
On a sidenote, though I think your argument is invalid... is a bad direction for the game, and should be avoided wherever possible.
Well I don't think everyone would agree with this. There were a lot of hardcore players that were upset for the very reason you mention, namely that the current one tick system doesn't require you to be on more then to just check in. Some players preferred having to be around in order to really do well. There was always the dilemma of whether to stay for the second tick or not if there was def on the second tick but not the first.

Note: I'm not saying I agree with this perspective, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 22:49   #13
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Re: Fleets in orbit

We should not cater to the hardcore players, they are so few these days.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 22:53   #14
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
We should not cater to the hardcore players, they are so few these days.
Perhaps, but then again maybe this is part of the reason there are not many hard core players in PA...
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 23:49   #15
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedda0815
ships which are killed in the first tick don't participate in the second tick

ships which are frozen in the first tick are ready to for the second tick (at least it was this way back in the old days)
and in case it's not a zero loss battle for the emp defenders, the attack fleet get's stronger each tick not the other way round as it is when you def with killships

Back in the old days there weren't such things like races, there were only a few emp ships and "everyone" had access to it

well i think in r3 you had to decide if you research the tarantula (the big emp ship which froze the big ships, the spider was the the small ones) or the battleship

but back then there were only 12 ships at all, 6 kill ships (1 for each class), 2 emp ships (spider an emp fi for fi,co and fr, tarantula an emp de for de,cr,bs) and 2 cloaked (can't remember the name of the small one but the big one was the ghost), an Co pod which was called pod and the Fr cargoship
every ship shooted at every class (with more or less success) and everyone who had some emp ships also had killships

From Round 6 to Round 9.5, Cathaar existed as a stand-alone race - e.g. the Round 8 ship stats. They were very playable, EMP was more effective though.
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Unread 21 Aug 2007, 01:55   #16
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Re: Fleets in orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Perhaps, but then again maybe this is part of the reason there are not many hard core players in PA...
Until I see evidence that supports that conclusion, or at least suggests it may be correct, I'll note this claim down as speculation at best, completely wrong at worst, and I'm leaning towards going with the worst-case scenario.



P.S.
Oh yeah, Bedda, furball made a decent point. It worked once before, give a reason why it wouldn't work any more.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 10:29   #17
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Re: Fleets in orbit

would stolen ships be available for second tick like in the old days?
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