round 48 prediction

[Mzyxptlk]

We are.

[Clouds]

After the grammar nerds have finished having pointless debates, let's get back to topic.

Originally Posted by Hunterrrr

WE will win!

Agreed.

[ArcChas]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

We are.

Damn!

Will someone please send a surgeon over to remove this hook and line from my cheek?

(Sorry Clouds. It's just that there's absolutely no doubt that Ult will win again so we're just getting a bit bored with predicting it).

[Knight]

BABYLONS
Ult
Haven
CT

I'm pretty sure BABYLONS will be overlooked this round due to everyone wanting to knock Ult down, then when it's noticed that BABs are far ahead it will be too late, because unlike Haven and CT, BABYLONS are actually a good alliance who can def very well. Also in recent rounds App have been the ones the change the course of the round for the better for Ult, but with us being their competition this round that won't be happening again .

Regardless though, it should be a fun round having an opponent that is actually capable for once.

[Illusion]

#1 Ultores
#2 BABYLONS/Apprime
#3 HaveN
#4 xVx
#5 CT
#6 DFWTK
#7 <insert new ally name>
#8 ND
#9 HR
#10 <insert another new ally name>

Originally Posted by Forest

My prediction is that Kaiba will post about how rubbish CT and ND are and how they always crash.

I also predict he will conveniently forget he has achieved nothing pa as a member, and had considerable hardship as a hc.

I also predict he won't realise that if it wasn't for the fact he spouts this rubbish on every thread, he would be a complete nobody in pa.

I also predict Forest cant post on a single thread without insulting or attacking someone on a personal level

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Illusion

I also predict Forest cant post on a single thread without insulting or attacking someone on a personal level

Then you should prob read some more of my posts

[Kaiba]

I actually completely missed that inital post from Forest :/

(the one quoted by Illusion)


I like that Forest picks on the fact that i have 'achieved nothing as member' when normally the people who achieve things on a personal level within this game are not team players for the rounds they do so. So if not being selfish, if doing my hardest to help my alliance members get as good ranks as possible (possibly sacrificing my own rank in the process) is achieving nothing then i am proud to have done that.

HIlariously you have this veiw of me that i think im a somebody, i really dont, i just played and had fun winding people up who bite far too easily.

I cant help if my predictions and comments about CT and others keep coming true because of inadequacies in how you run your alliances, thats something for you guys to look at, not me

PS. The alliance i HCed acheived what it was intended to do, create an active enviroment relative to the previous alliance we all played in, we had a great community spirit and a good mentality on playing the game, we never expected to to finish higher than bottom half top 10, because that was our gaming level and reflected the hours we were able to put into the game as a collective. We warred, we won, we lost, we had fun... how PA should be in a nutshell

[TheoDD]

Originally Posted by Forest

Then you should prob read some more of my posts

So far he is right atleast, and if you can't read... He did not use past tence.

As for topic..
#1 Bab
#2 CT
#3 Ult

The lower ranks is under achievers or unfortunate victims of other factors.
I do predict Ult die of boredom at some point, maybe not r48 but...

[Forest]

Originally Posted by TheoDD

So far he is right atleast, and if you can't read... He did not use past tence.

Tense

[Demort]

most the posts arent to do with predictions so this topic is already ruined so not gunna bother posting not that im even gunna play anyway

[Nitz]

I'm going to go with

1 Ultores
2 Apprime/BABYLONS
3 Haven

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Demort

most the posts arent to do with predictions so this topic is already ruined so not gunna bother posting not that im even gunna play anyway

Posting to say you're not going to post? Hey, if it works out for you, who am I to judge!

[Clouds]

I think the 'block' will work together more feircly against Ultores in the upcoming round, putting aside their incompetencies from previous rounds and having the prime goal of stopping Ultores above everything else.

However, There will be another strong contender who actually have the compentency to not crash and to defend & attack properly.

The question is, will this alliance join the 'block' against Ultores or will they stay neutral and fence the round?

Both CT & Haven have the capability of achieving #1 and surviving an onslaught from a block, but they (especially CT) needs to revise, structually. For example;

DC's/Defence Point Systems

This is old style PA. No-one, except really CT/ND use this anymore. The prime and fundamental reason why this system fails in today's PA is because:

1) The system is abused
2) DC's get overworked

Alliances like Babylons (Apprime), Ultores, xVx, etc operate more efficently because their members dc their own calls, usually having at least 1 member per buddy-pack responsibly for dc'ing. However, this strategy only benefits the more hardcore & active alliances as not everyone can dc their own calls in the more mediocre alliances.

I'd suggest CT/ND etc using this strategy (allow each member to dc their own calls) with dc's as backup. If you have to use a defence point system to encourage your members to team play, then you may as well disband now.

Haven, however, (as far as I know) didn't use a defence point system/DC's, but they made the fundamental mistake of dishing out 'free roids' when they were blocked against, when they had the capability to defend themselves properly. Their strategy was to get roided quickly so the 'block' would move on to CT, due to the proximity of remaining ticks. Even though this worked to and extent, they destroyed their reputation in the process, in my opinion anyway.

Based on the above, my prediction for the upcoming round is;

#1 - Babylons
#2 - Conspiracy
#3 - Ultores
#4 - Haven
#5 - xVx
#6 - NewDawn
#7 - DFWTK
#8 - ODDR
#9 - HR

[Hunterrrr]

I PREDICT THAT WE WILL WIN BY AT LEAST 100 milions! ALSO NELITO WILL WIN PLANET AND NELITO GALAXY WILL BE #1!

[M0RPH3US]

#1 Nelito
#2 Forest
#3 Kaiba

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by Clouds

Haven, however, (as far as I know) didn't use a defence point system/DC's, but they made the fundamental mistake of dishing out 'free roids' when they were blocked against, when they had the capability to defend themselves properly. Their strategy was to get roided quickly so the 'block' would move on to CT, due to the proximity of remaining ticks. Even though this worked to and extent, they destroyed their reputation in the process, in my opinion anyway.

I guess that's what it looked like from the outside.

From the inside; half the people not doing anything to save their roids, then complaining the next day that noone did it for them.

[Mzyxptlk]

It was my understanding that at some point, when you got gangbanged, only people with more than 1400 roids and those in the top 20 were receiving defense. Confirm/deny?

[Forest]

Good post clouds.

However, there is a slight discrepency between what CT does and what pa perceive they do.

Whilst CT does have dc's, ANY member can join the dc room and dc, they all have access to tools and it is actively encouraged. They just chose not to a lot of the time and so a few people end up doing so.

The point system may as well not be there, it is hardly used.

CT does have a few problems. These imo are:

1) CT is not a top 3 alliance.
I don't mean this in a negative way.
Simply, a large proportion of players are not active enough to be in a top alliance. There is a variety of reasons, one of the biggest being it is more if a community, players have lives but want to stay in pa but won't/aren't able to take that extra step of dedication that it takes to win. Those that do, invariably take more defence because they are the active ones, they are the ones online sorting defence etc. It is a bit of a myth that CT def whores its top players. I have never found that. It is just the top players are the ones online organising themselves defence.
CT should take pride in that whilst they don't win, they usually get higher ranks than they should, due to those top players and in a big way, politics. Without politics, CT would imo finish 5/6th every round.
Instead they always create action in a round and inpact on it. Rather than laugh at them, this should be applauded.

2) They have been about too long.
Top alliances don't last many rounds. We have seen that round after round. It might be the same core group that moves from alliance to alliance (Fury > 1up etc) but it keeps it fresh.
Lasting so long doesn't actually do any favours as it is hard to stay fresh. Ult maybe the top alliance now, but given 15 more rounds, would they still be able to keep it up? I very much doubt it.

3) The tools are TOO good.

Whilst this may sound silly, it actually makes players lazy and doesn't help at all.
Also, the sms bot means that players get spammed ships all the time. Certainly in my case, that took the urgency away for me and it got to the point where I would say 'oh just another sms, it can't be that urgent, it never is' and then not rush to come online. I know others where the same.

4) The SHIPS themselves.
People are more keen to attack. A huge portion of players would have great attack fleets but rubbish def fleets. meaning more fleets needed to cover one attack. It used to drive me mad that I would have to use 4 fleets to cover one incoming simply because players with 50k BS and 800k co would offer 10k fr in def. I wa sa big advocate that someone should have 30% of there fleet as ONE single ship (or two if it could cover fakes). This would mean we could cover one incoming with one fleet. I lost that battle every round.

That is how I see CT.

I welcome a debate about this if people want to enter one, but I just wrote all that one handed whilst feeding the kid, so be nice!

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

It was my understanding that at some point, when you got gangbanged, only people with more than 1400 roids and those in the top 20 were receiving defense. Confirm/deny?

After enough damage had been done (roids lost and value crashed) to ensure we had no chance to win anymore, a mail was sent with that message, yes.

..Which pretty much killed whatever morale was left in the alliance, meaning noone bothered to defend anymore. Rare exceptions aside, whatever def was sent after that was ingal. I wouldn't call it a 'strategy', more of a desperate 'well, we lost, let's attack rather than defend in vain and have some fun'.

[Mzyxptlk]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said:

2012-07-12 09:33:56 <@mz> :D
2012-07-12 09:34:02 <@mz> free roids for everyone \o/
2012-07-12 09:34:36 <@mz> you really can't throw half your members to the wolves

[Tiamat101]

Prediction:

1) Ult
2) Nothing else matters
3) No one cares
4) Babylon

[Clouds]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

I guess that's what it looked like from the outside.

From the inside; half the people not doing anything to save their roids, then complaining the next day that noone did it for them.

I was more referring to the rule that your HC's put in place when you were blocked that only your t20 planets were to be defended.

Originally Posted by Patrikc

After enough damage had been done (roids lost and value crashed) to ensure we had no chance to win anymore, a mail was sent with that message, yes.

..Which pretty much killed whatever morale was left in the alliance, meaning noone bothered to defend anymore. Rare exceptions aside, whatever def was sent after that was ingal. I wouldn't call it a 'strategy', more of a desperate 'well, we lost, let's attack rather than defend in vain and have some fun'.

In my opinion, you still could've been a contender to win if you had kept up the resistance. I mean look at what Ultores did. Instead, you gave up.

Ultores, in previous rounds, has experienced similiar to what HaveN went through last round, in terms of the number of hostilities and the value you had, but Ultores had kept up resistance.

I think HaveN had a good memberbase, they just had poor decision makers.

[Clouds]

Originally Posted by Forest

Whilst CT does have dc's, ANY member can join the dc room and dc, they all have access to tools and it is actively encouraged. They just chose not to a lot of the time and so a few people end up doing so.

Obviously these members don't don't dc don't mind getting roided, and if they otherwise complain, they have no leg to stand on.

Originally Posted by Forest

CT does have a few problems. These imo are:

1) CT is not a top 3 alliance.
I don't mean this in a negative way.
Simply, a large proportion of players are not active enough to be in a top alliance. There is a variety of reasons, one of the biggest being it is more if a community, players have lives but want to stay in pa but won't/aren't able to take that extra step of dedication that it takes to win. Those that do, invariably take more defence because they are the active ones, they are the ones online sorting defence etc.

Or maybe (this is just my opinion) CT players are used to having others DC their calls that it is now the norm to expect someone else to DC for you.

Originally Posted by Forest

It is a bit of a myth that CT def whores its top players. I have never found that. It is just the top players are the ones online organising themselves defence.

It's probably because these top players are the only members who can be bothered to DC during peak times.

Originally Posted by Forest

3) The tools are TOO good.

Whilst this may sound silly, it actually makes players lazy and doesn't help at all.
Also, the sms bot means that players get spammed ships all the time. Certainly in my case, that took the urgency away for me and it got to the point where I would say 'oh just another sms, it can't be that urgent, it never is' and then not rush to come online. I know others where the same.

This is debatable. Although, I agree with your comment about a typical member being sent multiple sms messages in a single night. The urgency of checking your phone becomes unimportant. Your tech is slightly capped, because you only have an sms feature to contact your members. In Ultores, however, they have a feature called a 'call bot', which is primarily used to contact its members, followed by a single sms message.

For example;

<@Mystic> .call agar3s
<+XXX> Calling agar3s...
<+XXX> Call ended: Answered

This feature would improve the response rate by a substantial percentage in an alliance like CT, and would be quite cost effective, as opposed to your current setup.

One feature that Xyphistor, in Ultores, implemented was to integrate e-mails with the sms bot, as sms'ing can be quite costly. Sending an email is free, and considering today most folk have smart phones, quite a few Ultores members have added e-mail address as their sms number to reduce the cost for the hoster.

Originally Posted by Forest

4) The SHIPS themselves.
People are more keen to attack. A huge portion of players would have great attack fleets but rubbish def fleets. meaning more fleets needed to cover one attack. It used to drive me mad that I would have to use 4 fleets to cover one incoming simply because players with 50k BS and 800k co would offer 10k fr in def. I wa sa big advocate that someone should have 30% of there fleet as ONE single ship (or two if it could cover fakes). This would mean we could cover one incoming with one fleet. I lost that battle every round.

This is the difference between CT and Ultores, because in Ultores, you are told what to build, defencively, and HC's keep a close eye on what its members are building. Of course, there are a few that are exempt from building such defence ships, and are classed (in the eyes of the HC's) as attack bots, but are still assets to the alliance collectively.

It sounds like to me that CT lets their members do what they want without any consequence.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by Clouds

I was more referring to the rule that your HC's put in place when you were blocked that only your t20 planets were to be defended.

I know, which didn't have any effect on the outcome. By that time we had already lost 25-30% of our roids (if not more), crashed a ton of value and lost whatever was left of our will to win.

Originally Posted by Clouds

In my opinion, you still could've been a contender to win if you had kept up the resistance. I mean look at what Ultores did. Instead, you gave up.

Ultores, in previous rounds, has experienced similiar to what HaveN went through last round, in terms of the number of hostilities and the value you had, but Ultores had kept up resistance.

I think HaveN had a good memberbase, they just had poor decision makers.

And I'm telling you we could not. The 'resistance' you're talking of was simply not there. The part of the alliance that was still putting in effort was demotivated hugely by the part that wasn't, and while the decision to mostly forgo defense was the final nail in the coffin, we were already lying down in it, having accepted our fate.

HaveN is not Ultores, and you can't say we "could have won" because another alliance would have been able to under those circumstances.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Clouds

Obviously these members don't don't dc don't mind getting roided, and if they otherwise complain, they have no leg to stand on.

I don't think it was a matter of 'minding'. I hate being roided with a vengeance. But I had to give the order on many occasions that my alliance/galaxy should cover me last and cover others first. This is due to real life (I am a teacher and have a new daughter) meaning I can't be on at those times.
To say I don't mind is not fair, I care a lot.
And many others in CT and other alliances are the same.
Ult have the luxury of being able to cream the best, as have many alliances down the years and that makes it a whole lot easier for you to start with.

Originally Posted by Clouds

Or maybe (this is just my opinion) CT players are used to having others DC their calls that it is now the norm to expect someone else to DC for you.

People know if they don't dc their own calls they will likely get roided. They just don't have any choice.
PA isn't so much about skill (everyone is/should be at a reasonable skill level) as it is about activity.
And most people in pa don't have the luxury of logging on when they want.
It is why PA is dying.

Originally Posted by Clouds

It's probably because these top players are the only members who can be bothered to DC during peak times.

Again, it is not that they can be bothered, more that they can't.

Originally Posted by Clouds

This is debatable. Although, I agree with your comment about a typical member being sent multiple sms messages in a single night. The urgency of checking your phone becomes unimportant. Your tech is slightly capped, because you only have an sms feature to contact your members. In Ultores, however, they have a feature called a 'call bot', which is primarily used to contact its members, followed by a single sms message.

For example;

<@Mystic> .call agar3s
<+XXX> Calling agar3s...
<+XXX> Call ended: Answered

This feature would improve the response rate by a substantial percentage in an alliance like CT, and would be quite cost effective, as opposed to your current setup.

One feature that Xyphistor, in Ultores, implemented was to integrate e-mails with the sms bot, as sms'ing can be quite costly. Sending an email is free, and considering today most folk have smart phones, quite a few Ultores members have added e-mail address as their sms number to reduce the cost for the hoster.

CT has a call feature and did all last round.

Originally Posted by Clouds

This is the difference between CT and Ultores, because in Ultores, you are told what to build, defencively, and HC's keep a close eye on what its members are building. Of course, there are a few that are exempt from building such defence ships, and are classed (in the eyes of the HC's) as attack bots, but are still assets to the alliance collectively.

This is a fair point. Pre-round, I made a long post on CT forums about what ships to build as an alliance and the make up % of races. It was ignored by HC. Not that I am saying what I wrote was correct, but instead of discussing and having a clear strategy a general order of 'go fi/co' went out. Of course, plenty ignored this anyway so once again we missed out on having a large concentration of ships.

Orders were fooked up to. The order went out for caths to build widows, so I made 30% widows (and I was a huge value planet all round). A couple of days later, we were told to get taras. Now, I had 33% co/33% wid/33% cr. So now I had to use my tara for defence I was effectively a top 30 value planet with only 33% attack fleet. Then orders changed again.
they weren't even done by HC (we had a largely missing Attack HC and it was DC's doing it. When I argued it was wrong, I was slapped down.

It sounds like to me that CT lets their members do what they want without any consequence.[/quote]

Pretty much. It is near impossible to get kicked from CT. One player did this round for defending Ult but was let back in within 36 hours.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Clouds

This is debatable. Although, I agree with your comment about a typical member being sent multiple sms messages in a single night. The urgency of checking your phone becomes unimportant. Your tech is slightly capped, because you only have an sms feature to contact your members. In Ultores, however, they have a feature called a 'call bot', which is primarily used to contact its members, followed by a single sms message.

For example;

<@Mystic> .call agar3s
<+XXX> Calling agar3s...
<+XXX> Call ended: Answered

This feature would improve the response rate by a substantial percentage in an alliance like CT, and would be quite cost effective, as opposed to your current setup.

I disagree. If you're contacted for defense several times every night, then it won't matter if you call or mail or sms or knock on their door. If you don't annoy them enough, they will ignore you. If you do annoy them enough, they will block you. In either case, DCs are not getting what they want.

However, I also disagree with Forest; the above is not a technical problem, but (as it so often is) a social one. I can only compare his description of CT with Ascendancy (the only other alliance I've been in is ROCK, which at the time had no way of contacting members for defense), but I don't remember there being a need to call or sms people every night. People were woken up when we were targeted, but not usually for random gal raids. Additionally, everyone knew what was going on, it's not just "oh, I'm being called", but it's "oh, we were expecting heavy p targeting tonight and I'm being called".

There was also a means of letting DCs know if and when you wanted to be contacted, use of which was actively encouraged:

2009-03-27 03:05:28 <@mz> ~mydef 3x 3545k harp 105k chim 105k drake 105k frig sms dont wake me, ring ring ring
2009-11-02 21:39:37 <@mz> ~mydef 0x no.
2009-12-16 21:54:35 <@mz> ~mydef 3x 140k beet 145k vip up at 05:00
2010-04-07 23:43:17 <@mz> ~mydef 3x 100k beetle call me and die
2010-04-14 16:11:39 <@mz> ~mydef 3x 100k beet call me and maybe I let you live
2010-09-17 10:53:57 <@mz> ~mydef 0x away for the weekend

To me, it implies that CT suffers from a lack of people who check in on their own. Nothing is more frustrating to a DC than knowing there are ships idle, but not being able to get their owner to send them.

[Paisley]

I am agreeing with clouds, whilst I don't think Ultores has the perfect system i.e DCing own inc (But DCing gal mates inc for BP fort gals is good)

Originally Posted by Forest

Again, it is not that they can be bothered, more that they can't.

If you can calc up attacks you can in theory DC... similar principle.
Get suffient defence to the point of saying it is not worth the attack to land.

From my experience from R40 I have seen members who will watch their ally mates get roided from uncovered incs and refuse to DC.

I haven't seen much evidence of the defence culture being fixed at CT since.

Which leaves 2 courses of action.

1. If those members can't DC ... train them and train them well.
2. If those members won't DC ... performance management is needed.

Why burn out the good DCs with lazy members.

[VenoX]

Originally Posted by Paisley

If you can calc up attacks you can in theory DC... similar principle.

I think his point was that they can't because they aren't awake when incomings show (and can't be) not that they are incapable.

[Forest]

Yes Venox exactly.

I am one of the best DC's in pa, yet I CAN'T dc when it is needed.

[Forest]

Also throw in the fact that 'some' people are stupid and won't cover themselves for fakes.

[Blue_Esper]

maybe its not defence that's the problem....but attack?

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by Forest

Also throw in the fact that 'some' people are stupid and won't cover themselves for fakes.

Originally Posted by Paisley

1. If those members can't DC ... train them and train them well.

[Forest]

That doesn't even come into it when you are actually telling people what to leave home and they still fk it up.

[Benneh]

tbh, Ultores shipstrat last round was pretty shoddy, the zik shipstat didnt even include buccs.... (or anyone going cr even)

Yeah..

[DarkHeart]

Forest is completly correct about CT. CT have amazing tools and anything you can suggest for improving this tech or that has already been done in CT for many a moon. It is the very simple fact that for the majority, CT cannot / will not wake up. Forest was also correct when he stated CT is a 5th/6th place alliance and the fact they consistently acheive better and are always involved in the wars that decide rounds should be applauded.

When I was in CT i always wanted to respond to posts about 'how to improve CT' but tha would of been stupid, no point exposing the core weakness in the alliance for its enemies to exploit. Jesus... the amount of times Omega and xVx did stupid 'awesome suprise' launches at 10pm GMT or 8am GMT when CT was actually awake. lol. Those sends would have had a massive ROI if they had been organised for 3am, launching at those times I don't recall a single one ever gettign through.

Anyways, Forest wrote down perfectly what I had always wanted to post but never did. Forest is 100% correct in his evaluation.

Back to the shadows...

[neroon]

Originally Posted by DarkHeart

Forest is completly correct about CT. CT have amazing tools and anything you can suggest for improving this tech or that has already been done in CT for many a moon. It is the very simple fact that for the majority, CT cannot / will not wake up. Forest was also correct when he stated CT is a 5th/6th place alliance and the fact they consistently acheive better and are always involved in the wars that decide rounds should be applauded.

When I was in CT i always wanted to respond to posts about 'how to improve CT' but tha would of been stupid, no point exposing the core weakness in the alliance for its enemies to exploit. Jesus... the amount of times Omega and xVx did stupid 'awesome suprise' launches at 10pm GMT or 8am GMT when CT was actually awake. lol. Those sends would have had a massive ROI if they had been organised for 3am, launching at those times I don't recall a single one ever gettign through.

Anyways, Forest wrote down perfectly what I had always wanted to post but never did. Forest is 100% correct in his evaluation.

Back to the shadows...

will not wake, do not wake up, can not wake up.. the fck are u all blabbering about, when quite some of u have been against making the game more round a clock in past.. cry me a river

[baggy]

Originally Posted by DarkHeart

Forest is completly correct about CT. CT have amazing tools and anything you can suggest for improving this tech or that has already been done in CT for many a moon. It is the very simple fact that for the majority, CT cannot / will not wake up. Forest was also correct when he stated CT is a 5th/6th place alliance and the fact they consistently acheive better and are always involved in the wars that decide rounds should be applauded.

When I was in CT i always wanted to respond to posts about 'how to improve CT' but tha would of been stupid, no point exposing the core weakness in the alliance for its enemies to exploit. Jesus... the amount of times Omega and xVx did stupid 'awesome suprise' launches at 10pm GMT or 8am GMT when CT was actually awake. lol. Those sends would have had a massive ROI if they had been organised for 3am, launching at those times I don't recall a single one ever gettign through.

Anyways, Forest wrote down perfectly what I had always wanted to post but never did. Forest is 100% correct in his evaluation.

Back to the shadows...

agree

[Kaiba]

I understand the statement from Forest about CT not being a top 3 alliance BUT is there 3 competitive alliances better than CT atm? Ultores and Apprime/Babylons yes... but the rest? no they are on par i would say.

Also i wouldnt agree with the good politics statement either.. for the last 4 rounds CT have been on the opposing side to Ultores, and alliance that is happy to sit there and soak up a beating for 800 ticks then go attacking for 300 and win. This means you will have naturally been in a good position early on to roid/value/score gain until Ultores decides it needs to attack. I dont think thats good politics i just think your member size and longetivity in the game designates you as the 'opposing force'.

As far as having 'the best tools in PA'... well i havent used CT tools so i wont slate them, they probably are very comphrensive and useful BUT... a sms tool that sms's is good enough, a callbot that calls people is good enough, an attack page that allows people to book an attack is good enough. I dont beleive you can have the 'best' at these.. they either do it or they dont. Its your DCing tools that suprise me though, from the alliances that i have played in (ASS, HeX, NewDawn, xVx and Ultores) you are the only alliance that i have heard of that uses an external tool for defence. Everyone else seems to be doing a good job with the ingame defence page tbh, im not sure why you guys see the need to have something external, im not saying its flawed, once again it probably is very comprehensive but maybe it is too much for your average joe? its another thing to learn for a joining member, from what i have heard it screens out some calls based on defence points... in other alliances DC's would automatically do that as they would know after 2 weeks or so who was sending defence and who wasnt yet the call would still be available to cover if someone felt the need. The only additional defence 'tool' i have seen that was half decent was ND's that used the notification system to automatically paste an 'incomming alert' into the DC channel and that only served to nudge people into action.

Paisleys comment about 'if you can make an attack calc you can DC', although technically correct is in practice complete bullshit. For the average PA player attacking and checking on your attacks takes about up about 5 mins of your life everyday, sensble players edge on the side of caution and recall from some attacks without even calcing. Others will get scans quickly and whacking them in their ready made calc and then make a decision, smsing their attack partners the outcome and thats done. Dcing is a vastly more time consuming trade, as Forest said he can DC but doesnt have the time, something that afflicts a lot of PA players now. First you need scans, then you need to make a calc, then you need to start smsing and calling people and waiting for them to arrive online and actually send, its something that will take up the best part of 30-40 mins every tick, especially in an alliance like CT where defensive response times are lower than say Ultores.

So yes you can DC BUT DCing sucessfully is completely different ball game!!

I will say now that i do feel sorry for Forest, he may not like me but i do feel symapthy for him with CT. He is very passionate about the alliance and from everything i have heard is a somewhat arrogant yet extremely competent PA and team player. The fact that i can see on here that is he desperate to make some changes that will benefit his beloved alliance yet is disregarded time and again by his HC's (people with probably vastly less experience than him in PA) must be immensely fustrating.

I would like to know from him if he thinks the HC's of CT should take a large chunk of the blame for CT reluctance to change or wether it is a deeper problem within the alliance (private message is ok as im sure you dont want to potentially slate your command team in public)


My last suggestion would be if CT cant compete for the win and wants to be veiwed as a community alliance rather than a competing one then maybe you shoudl cut down your tag size? cut away some fair weather members and just play with your CT core for more fun?? I cant beleive your 'community core' is 60+ members tbh...

[Kaiba]

The other thing i noticed was the comment about the vagueness and indecisiveness from CT HC's regarding ship strategy. Clouds made an oppsong comment about Ultores being some amazing strategists and hot on keep it in check... they really arent!!

Ship strategy is about what will get the most out your players whilst making sure you counter your opponents as best as possible.

'Go Fi/Co' is far too vague a strategy i agree but maybe another sentence or two about with races to go with fi/co and which was the best ship for each race would have been enough. You dont need to bombard players with info, most can see from stats what is a decent ship and what is an awful one, but i dont think you should force your better players to play something they really dont want to. If they think Zik CR will give them the best chance of a good rank then let them play it, having your top 10-15% playing something they want to play will make them more motivated and therefore score better, they will be online more, DC more, attack more and chat more... being a better team member. YOur top 5-10 players in your alliance will make up 25-30% of your total alliance score, why would you make them play half heartedly? Rigid strategies are for those that drift through rounds, ones that want guidance and an easy round

[Clouds]

Originally Posted by Paisley

I am agreeing with clouds, whilst I don't think Ultores has the perfect system i.e DCing own inc (But DCing gal mates inc for BP fort gals is good)

I have to disagree with you here, Paisley, because I have experienced first hand of both systems (a dc system & and a system where members are responsible for dc'ing their own incoming), and I have to say that Ultores' system (much like xVx and Babylons as well) is a far more effective way of covering incoming as a collective.

Using dc's (specially if you're being blocked against) to dc an entire alliance will result in the few who are dc'ing to get burnt out within a few hours. And also, it is difficult to communicate with the member's galaxy to finish off a call, if necessary. Then again, an alliance like CT will heavily rely on their dc system due to the very nature of the alliance, a mediocre, semi-active alliance.

I would suggest that an alliance like CT to get their members more involved with dc'ing, whether it's dc'ing their own calls or dc'ing for others who cannot get online in that moment in time. It's about team work.

Originally Posted by Paisley

If you can calc up attacks you can in theory DC... similar principle.
Get suffient defence to the point of saying it is not worth the attack to land.

It's interesting you brought this up. In my first round in Ultores (r43), I was a bit of a noob when it came to dc'ing (I probably still am but at least I can say I am more competent at doing it now), and when I 'overcovered' a call, I got bitched at by agar3s and was threatened that if I messed up again, I would be placed on 'nodef'. Although this was harsh, I learnt from my mistake and I now always ask for a second opinion before submitting the final calc to the defence page and calling it covered. This is good leadership.

Which leads me to my point. Alliances like CT & ND don't just have the problem of using an old style dc system, they on some occasions have been known to quite considerable overcover calls, without discipline, which wastes fleets. A bit of discipline goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Paisley

I haven't seen much evidence of the defence culture being fixed at CT since.

It's a bit difficult to rectify due to the nature of the alliance. If folk can't/won't get online to dc calls and/or respond to sms/calls to send out fleets, then their options are very limited.

I don't think CT's problem is due to lack of members sending fleets out, though, I think it's more of a dc issue.

[Blue_Esper]

CT are top ally not an elite ally

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Paisleys comment about 'if you can make an attack calc you can DC', although technically correct is in practice complete bullshit.

So yes you can DC BUT DCing sucessfully is completely different ball game!!

Unless you are new to PA, experienced players should be able to get scans, build calc and add in defence... the only extra step is having to call for def rather than calcing up the defence.

Its PA not rocket science

[Mzyxptlk]

Everyone can DC a few incs. It gets interesting (but still not hard, just stressful) when you have 2 gals with 3+ waves per planet.

[Forest]

Kaiba didnt say they couldnt. He said it is time constraints that stop ppl dc'ing, as did I.

Do keep up.

(Kaiba, I will reply to your post when the baby goes to sleep).

[Mzyxptlk]

Ah, yes. I suppose I should've read the original post, not just the bit of it that Paisley quoted.

[JonnyBGood]

Although Forest and Kaiba are right in that anyone can dc dcing really well is a very different thing and I doubt very many people could do that even with the whole day to spend online. However the need for really good dcing is probably pretty minimal to be fair.

If I had to recommend a few simple things that people should be able to do to improve their alliance's ability to def effectively they'd be as follows

1) Stop putting 80%+ of your resources into ships you use for attacking
2) Don't use 2 mediocre attack fleets and have 2 def fleets sitting at home with only 1 slot.
3) Try to check PA either just before you go to sleep or soon after you wake up to see if people need def. This really only takes 10 minutes.

If I had to make a few recommendations to alliances they'd be these

4) Put someone in charge of defence and if you speak to them and they can't give a coherent answer to the question "what are we going to about defence this round" ****ing get rid of them.
5) If that person hasn't spoken to everyone about what they're going to build for def and a little bit about their overall planet strategy within 1 week of the start of the round get rid of them.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

If I had to make a few recommendations to alliances they'd be these

4) Put someone in charge of defence and if you speak to them and they can't give a coherent answer to the question "what are we going to about defence this round" ****ing get rid of them.
5) If that person hasn't spoken to everyone about what they're going to build for def and a little bit about their overall planet strategy within 1 week of the start of the round get rid of them.

This is the other issue that certain alliances seem to have also, an unwillingness to remove certain people from their setup even though they arent contributing fully to the cause.

I have watched for the rounds i have played that Apprime, Ultores and Ascendancy were quite happy to remove someone from their alliance if they werent giving it enough effort, especially if they had a position of responsibility within the alliance. They would rather not have the person and have a tighter team and ruin an ego than fall apart over someone who thinks they are amazing.

I will now HYPOTHETICALLY* presume that CT would never kick Ronin. If he played half assed and couldnt be bothered to help DCing the fact he will naturally have a counting tag score and the fact he is Ronin will make him immune to anything bad in CT. On the other hand i beleive if eksero was doing the same in Ultores that agar3s, after consultation, would kick eksero out if it bettered Ultores as a playing unit, even if it lost them 5 mill score.


*Im not saying that Ronin is like this, i was just using him as a well known CT name and a big 'score getter', i equally think that ND wouldnt kick shaz na if she was playing for them and that HaveN wouldnt kick Phant, regardless of how they play and act.

[M0RPH3US]

it will get worse with pl set to +4 only

do the maths
ppl launch at 22 gametime and it shows...
yes, exactly, when u sleep

will be fun

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

it will get worse with pl set to +4 only

do the maths
ppl launch at 22 gametime and it shows...
yes, exactly, when u sleep

will be fun

Yeah see thats what throws me about +4 PL... how it better than what we have?

With +11 you end up with 4-6am attacks, when most of europe is beginning to wake up, or has been asleep for a while and is easier to wake.

With +4 you end up with 2-4am attacks, when people are deep asleep, both american and european (not all america i know but some of them). This means even less defence for the less active alliances.

With No PL all i would imagine you would see if a broadening of the current attack range, probably from 4-8am with more of a concentration from 6am-8am.

Tbh full PL or no PL dont drastically effect how the game is played, one just thins out attack concentration and leads to more mislaunches and non launches (not an attacking solution) and the other lets you play on full auto.

+4 PL just kills both and was shown last time to be an awful solution to a wholly pointless problem, cant understand why its back!!!

[Blue_Esper]

it's only going to be negative because alliances are set in their ways and believe there is a finite number of ticks that one can land on. if everyone launched at 2pm then the same amount of incs show as 2am. it doesn't matter WHEN you launch its WHAT you launch. if alliances are only going to give half arsed attacked during the "day" then yes they are going to be easily covered. either put all your chips into day raids, or all your chips into night raids. not both.