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Unread 2 Apr 2017, 17:42   #1
Jintao
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R72 shipstats

Anyone fancy doing the r72 shipstats?

Oversight will be limited this round to promote diversity in AD/DC between rounds. Mostly the main targetting scheme will need to be approved.

Stats have to be ready and approve before R71 EORC starts
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Unread 2 Apr 2017, 20:29   #2
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Re: R72 shipstats

Has someone like Agar3s done the stats yet?

Someone who has a tactical brain like his would surely put a quality set together.
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 14:22   #3
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Re: R72 shipstats

agar3s is a bot programmed to DC only
He would have no idea how to make stats
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 16:05   #4
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Has someone like Agar3s done the stats yet?

Someone who has a tactical brain like his would surely put a quality set together.
agar3s tactical? please. There's a lot of luck involved
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 17:01   #5
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Re: R72 shipstats

not my turn to make stats, im surprised that eksero hasn't volunteered to do a set
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 17:15   #6
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Re: R72 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Paisley
not my turn to make stats, im surprised that eksero hasn't volunteered to do a set
That sounds like way too much effort for my liking
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 18:53   #7
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Re: R72 shipstats

How about Xan only, to make up for the travesty this round?
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Unread 3 Apr 2017, 19:36   #8
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Re: R72 shipstats

Ok so we are all agreed Venox doesn't do stats!
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Unread 4 Apr 2017, 08:24   #9
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Ok so we are all agreed Venox doesn't do stats!
I'm all for all xan!
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Unread 4 Apr 2017, 17:07   #10
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Re: R72 shipstats

having a round of cloakers would be fun
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Unread 15 Apr 2017, 14:31   #11
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Re: R72 shipstats

Nobody has seemed particularly interested in them in the past but I am still happy to have my most recent proposed set as a possibility http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201179
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Unread 16 Apr 2017, 22:44   #12
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Re: R72 shipstats

I might volunteer a set if there is no other takers
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 10:28   #13
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Re: R72 shipstats

Just want to chip in and say I think this set rocks.
The extremely OP and broken emp of the past rounds is gone. Emp is stoppable atm, that's good.
Nice holes in every race, options for fakes all around due to shipcosts being in line and teamwork is rewarded.

imo it's the best set in ages. (altough some things can be improved, some rough edges etc).
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 10:46   #14
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Re: R72 shipstats

That should surely have gone in http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...96#post3255796

Unless you are advocating running the same set again next round?
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 12:27   #15
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Re: R72 shipstats

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I would need access to beta/speedgame to do emp and tweaking for the set.

I would aim for emp eff at 160% t1 and about 120% t2

It is a 5 race set with some nice options
The set is offensive in nature and alot of roiding options both for the individual and teaming up
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Last edited by Paisley; 17 Apr 2017 at 12:38.
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 12:46   #16
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Re: R72 shipstats

Only emp out inits xan fi.
Only emp out inits xan fr.
How do you expect this not to be a massively xan heavy round?
Do you intend xan to be much more vulnerable to emp than other races?
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 14:04   #17
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I would need access to beta/speedgame to do emp and tweaking for the set.

I would aim for emp eff at 160% t1 and about 120% t2

It is a 5 race set with some nice options
The set is offensive in nature and alot of roiding options both for the individual and teaming up
Please no same init emp again
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 15:51   #18
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Only emp out inits xan fi.
Only emp out inits xan fr.
How do you expect this not to be a massively xan heavy round?
Do you intend xan to be much more vulnerable to emp than other races?
how do you expect xans to hold the roids?

xans are easily roided by ter bs, etd de and cr if the numbers are suffient, cath and zik frig, xan fi and xan frig
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 15:51   #19
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Re: R72 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
Please no same init emp again
what do you suggest?
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 17:02   #20
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
how do you expect xans to hold the roids?

xans are easily roided by ter bs, etd de and cr if the numbers are suffient, cath and zik frig, xan fi and xan frig
I am not sure that is a very good answer. A lot of that depends on the emp values and is difficult to tell without them being in a calc. However as cat and etd cant really concentrate their fleets much more than xan presumably they will be very open to both xan fleets. So you are saying that xan is not op because it can roid everything, but cant be roided by everything?

I also am not wild about all emp being same initiative, it seems lazy, but in practice it is not nearly as bad as when you have killships of the same initiative. The outcome is simply many more occasions where both sides fully emp each other. It does take a tactical dimension out of the stats which I dont particularly like.

Overall I guess my biggest gripe is that they seem to me to be rather boring. They dont have any interesting idea to them (I know this is rather a big ask). Nothing to make me think 'oh I want to play next round if there is a set like this'.
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 21:36   #21
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Unless you are advocating running the same set again next round?
They probably weren't, but I will: if the set is indeed good, then why not? No point taking unnecessary risks if we have a known-good set ready to go.

(Note the 'if'; I am not giving an opinion on the quality of the current set.)
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Unread 17 Apr 2017, 22:05   #22
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Re: R72 shipstats

You will never have everyone agree that they are an amazing set! They are certainly more balanced than many as there are several options that are working well (whether this is due to no cloak or low emp eff I am not sure).

However they are by no means perfect. No one has really tried bs this round so difficult to say if they are an option or not - and if someone was using it this would have a major knock on effect on cr which is quite good precisely because there is so little etd bs around. Co seems to be seriously underpowered; even app as an alliance that has gone all co without much in the way of any def ships is having trouble landing with them. This in turn implies that at least one of fr/fr/de is op in comparison to co - particularly fi with the spider firing before the beetle.
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Unread 18 Apr 2017, 13:16   #23
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
That should surely have gone in http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...96#post3255796

Unless you are advocating running the same set again next round?
I'm advocating running a set that takes the positives from the current set.

Quote:
xans are easily roided by ter bs, etd de and cr if the numbers are suffient, cath and zik frig, xan fi and xan frig
Can we please avoid another shit round where xan roids xan.
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Unread 18 Apr 2017, 13:55   #24
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Re: R72 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten View Post
I'm advocating running a set that takes the positives from the current set.
Yeah, it would be nice if a set of ship stats was like a puzzle that you can always put together perfectly, but it doesn't really work like that.

Instead, you get a whole bunch of puzzle pieces that don't really fit together. You try your best to make them into a nice picture anyway, but invariably, when you're 80% done, you will always be left with a bunch of oddly shaped holes that you can't fit any of your leftover puzzle pieces into. So you grab a hammer to force them in the best you can, just to get it finished. But you can't go back and say "that bit is clearly totally wrong, why didn't you pick a different piece?", because that was the best piece you had left, and if you'd picked another, some other piece would fit worse.

Unless you're talking about very abstract concepts, like how offensive or defensive a set is or whether 0-loss defense exists or not, you can't exactly cut and paste a set of stats together from the good bits of other sets.
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Unread 23 Apr 2017, 15:05   #25
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Re: R72 shipstats

In terms of doing a really offensive set, maybe another round of ST?

Or we could actually try to get a full MT round going, been a long time since we had this. Might end up more defensive though
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Unread 24 Apr 2017, 07:37   #26
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Re: R72 shipstats

I wonder whether a full mt set is possible now without being way too defensive. I guess you might be able to do it by having lots of ships with inconvenient t2 (where there is another ship covering it already) or really weak t2 (like where you have a ship t1 fi t2 de).

While st may be more in line with the times I can't say I like it as it always seems too formulaic. But then I have never liked ST and could use the excuse to skip a round.
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Unread 27 Apr 2017, 19:46   #27
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Re: R72 shipstats

too much naptarion for full mt stats different if there was more alliances going for the win at all costs
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