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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 18:33   #1
Veedeejem!
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a way to "fix" xp

To start out let me first say that I like XP, I am not one of those people who would rather see the game return to a value only game.

But with the current setup XP is flawed and is being abused.
I don't believe that people should be rewarded for crashing almost their entire fleet for a couple of roids, but huge xp, leaving them with highscoring planets but shit fleet & value (some will definetly disagree, but it's what i think about it and alot of other people do to)

My suggestion to fix it is pretty simple.
You only gain xp for the % of your fleet that is still alive after the battle.
Some examples:

Fleet A lands and doesn't lose a ship, he gains 100% xp of the xp he could gain.
Fleet B lands and loses 25% of his fleet, he only gets 75% of the xp he could have gained.
etc etc...

This way there's still room to go for xp play, but you need to keep your fleet alive & deserve the xp. If you look at it realistic (yes i know pa & realism doesn't go together much) it's only logical that it should be done this way.
You wouldn't see people celebrating caus all their soldiers are dead, but they capped some shiney asteroids...

Comments plz
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 18:40   #2
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Its a proposal which would certainly improve things with xp. I presume this would be done based on value of the fleet before and after, rather then ship numbers?
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 18:42   #3
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

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Originally Posted by Phil^
Its a proposal which would certainly improve things with xp. I presume this would be done based on value of the fleet before and after, rather then ship numbers?
yes, that's the general idea, forgot to mention that
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 18:49   #4
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Interesting, I think I like it.
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 20:17   #5
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

I've floated such an idea on a number of occasions in the past and it does seem like the perfect way to limit the abuse of XP

However I don't think it should be as clearcut as Zero Losses = 100%. Losing a certain amount of ships is fine from a tactical pov and in real life armies go into battle knowing they will take acceptable amount of losses and taking these doesn't make an attack a bad one and as such shouldn't be penalised for some losses. So imho either you need the drops to start only after a certain amount of losses or pehaps have loss windows each with their own xp rate.

While writing this however I have seen potentially a major abuse area for the whole idea and thats how losses are calculated. You can throw some useless ships to artificially decrease your loss % while still taking the same fleet losses as before
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 20:37   #6
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Thats more of a tactic wakey. Like outflaking emp with completely useless ships of the same class.
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 20:40   #7
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

for strictly-xp players though, you dont really have that much flak or useless ships you can throw in there as well since the method of gaining the most xp involves having as low a fleet value as you can tolerate and a great deal of luck. To be able to throw useless ships in there would compromise that method anyway and they'd gain less xp for it.
Its not so much of an issue ( in my eyes anyway ) since it becomes self-moderating; the more useless ships you put in then the less xp you were capable of getting in the first place and so on.

What might be an idea is to tip the scales in the event that you land a fleet which had no chance in hell of surviving - say if theres enough defence to kill the fleet four times over from the guys own fleet that is home then instead of simply gaining no xp you lose some proportionally to the amount of times over your fleet can be killed.
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 20:47   #8
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Thumbs up Re: a way to "fix" xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
To start out let me first say that I like XP, I am not one of those people who would rather see the game return to a value only game.

But with the current setup XP is flawed and is being abused.
I don't believe that people should be rewarded for crashing almost their entire fleet for a couple of roids, but huge xp, leaving them with highscoring planets but shit fleet & value (some will definetly disagree, but it's what i think about it and alot of other people do to)

My suggestion to fix it is pretty simple.
You only gain xp for the % of your fleet that is still alive after the battle.
Some examples:

Fleet A lands and doesn't lose a ship, he gains 100% xp of the xp he could gain.
Fleet B lands and loses 25% of his fleet, he only gets 75% of the xp he could have gained.
etc etc...

This way there's still room to go for xp play, but you need to keep your fleet alive & deserve the xp. If you look at it realistic (yes i know pa & realism doesn't go together much) it's only logical that it should be done this way.
You wouldn't see people celebrating caus all their soldiers are dead, but they capped some shiney asteroids...

Comments plz
It seems indeed brilliant.
I utterly agree that its absolutely ironic if ppl get a reward for crashing ships like if they were morons or half-arsed noobs.
I also agree that XP generally is a good thing.
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 21:01   #9
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

XP for defense needs to be changed.

Having 1 ship home in your base fleet and gaining 100xp for being roided is ridiculous.

At the very least it should have to be a ship in an actual fleet spot.
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 21:02   #10
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
XP for defense needs to be changed.

Having 1 ship home in your base fleet and gaining 100xp for being roided is ridiculous.

At the very least it should have to be a ship in an actual fleet spot.
or proportional to how useful that fleet is in defence?
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Unread 3 Mar 2007, 21:19   #11
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

well a fleet spot would make sense at least then it limits there 3 fleeting abillities if they want the def xp.

Or the ship must be able to fire upon the class incoming, something anything.

As it is right now, I am sure XP planets have made more XP being roided consistantly than I have attacking with my large value. It's rather sickening.
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Unread 4 Mar 2007, 10:47   #12
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Too much of a disincentive towards combat, imo. We want people to fight, and we want ships to die.

Also, many of the better XP players make use of things such as fake fleets. Let's say, for example, that I am attacking a planet which has 700k value. But he has a weak spot against FI, meaning that I could roid him with only 60k value in fighters. I would lose 30k value, but it would be worth it for capping lots of roids from a planet with higher value than myself. Bear in mind that I would (in this example) be faking FI as FR, and that the target can get FA on me so can see the number of ships. Therefore, I have to send a tiny fleet in order to keep the ship numbers believable. I could send my entire FI fleet (say, 200k value) and get 0 losses, but with the fake I get 50% losses. Why should the fake attack, with a smaller fleet and a more advanced attack tactic, get less XP than the dumb 'send all of my FI' approach?
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Unread 4 Mar 2007, 13:10   #13
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

As a casual XP player, I also think this idea is flawed. I have barely lost any ships this round, most of my attacks result in 0-loss landings. I can't afford to rebuild my fleet, and I can't keep up my attacking habits if I lose my ships. This might fix something that annoys value players (a symptom), but it doesn't fix the problem (the disease).
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Unread 4 Mar 2007, 13:47   #14
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

the only way to fix the disease would be to remove xp from the game - a step you have already said is unacceptable to you in another thread.

If you cant cure the disease you might as well mitigate the symptoms
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Unread 7 Mar 2007, 11:02   #15
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Re: a way to "fix" xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
To start out let me first say that I like XP, I am not one of those people who would rather see the game return to a value only game.

But with the current setup XP is flawed and is being abused.
I don't believe that people should be rewarded for crashing almost their entire fleet for a couple of roids, but huge xp, leaving them with highscoring planets but shit fleet & value (some will definetly disagree, but it's what i think about it and alot of other people do to)

My suggestion to fix it is pretty simple.
You only gain xp for the % of your fleet that is still alive after the battle.
Some examples:

Fleet A lands and doesn't lose a ship, he gains 100% xp of the xp he could gain.
Fleet B lands and loses 25% of his fleet, he only gets 75% of the xp he could have gained.
etc etc...

This way there's still room to go for xp play, but you need to keep your fleet alive & deserve the xp. If you look at it realistic (yes i know pa & realism doesn't go together much) it's only logical that it should be done this way.
You wouldn't see people celebrating caus all their soldiers are dead, but they capped some shiney asteroids...

Comments plz

I like the idea. If you also think of it in a logic way, it actually is the pilots of your ships that get experience. When you loose ships, you loose experienced pilots. Would be even nicer if you would loose some XP for crashing, and more realistic since you loose experienced pilots.

About def, in my opinion you should get XP for the amount of ships you kill. That also gives your pilots combat experience. Same thing for capping ships. This would also award people that defend more, which imo should be done.
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