Planetarion Forums

DarkAngel · 15 Sep 2003, 11:35

ok, this was bought to my attention when browsing over the manual this morning, first here is the snip from the manual ..

Quote:

Heavy Cargo Transfers

This research branch allows you to better move the large amounts of resources that your asteroid mining will provide.

Basic Asteroid Mining 7 - The initial research in this field, which you have when you start the game, means you can only mine efficiently from 50 asteroids.
Heavy Cargo Transfers -16 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 100.
This is the recommended starting research.
Heavy Cargo Transfers II - 24 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 200.
Heavy Cargo Transfers III - 32 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 300.
Heavy Cargo Transfers IIII - 48 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 400.
Heavy Cargo Transfers V - 64 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 500.
Heavy Cargo Transfers VI - 72 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 625.
Heavy Cargo Transfers VII - 72 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 750.
Heavy Cargo Transfers VIII - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 1000.
Heavy Cargo Transfers VIIII - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 1250.
Heavy Cargo Transfers X - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 1500.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XI - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 2000.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XII - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 2500.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XIII - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 3000.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XIIII - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 4000.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XV - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 5000.
Heavy Cargo Transfers XVI - 96 Ticks of research, increases the asteroids you mine efficiently to 6000.

Now, my question is, what happens when your reach 6k roids, and a HCT research of 6k roids, do you have to stop roiding ? or suffer the wrath of inefficient mining, or is there a failsafe implemented that we are unaware of ... anyone got any idea ??

das_experiment · 15 Sep 2003, 11:38

noone will research that far, or get that number of roids

DarkAngel · 15 Sep 2003, 11:40

Quote:

Originally posted by das_experiment
noone will research that far, or get that number of roids

there is a possibility, it will happen on both accounts, therefore an answer to the scenario should exist.

Kloopy · 15 Sep 2003, 11:42

[11:34:58] <Pilager> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...hreadid=169583
[11:35:02] <Pilager> any answers?
[11:35:15] <Pilager> spinner might know
[11:35:16] <Pilager>

[11:35:35] --> Senater ([email protected]) has joined #support
[11:35:44] <Kloopy> Good question.
[11:35:49] <Kloopy> Max of 6k roids per person?
[11:35:55] <Pilager> looks like it.
[11:36:04] * Pilager can imagine Spinner|support panicking now
[11:36:08] <Kloopy> lkol
[11:36:18] <Kloopy> Its not just in a loop, is it?
[11:36:26] <Pilager> haha.
[11:36:32] <Pilager> when you reach 6000
[11:36:36] <Pilager> your roids return to 0
[11:36:53] * King is away: school
[11:36:53] --- King is now known as King|school
[11:36:54] --- King|school removes channel operator status from King|school
[11:36:55] <Kloopy> Heavy Cargo Transfers n - 96 Ticks of research, uincreases the asteroids you mine efficientlt to (n-1) + 1000
[11:37:25] <Spinner|support> lol
[11:37:26] <Kloopy> So its indefinate, but each one adds 1000 to your efficient mining.
[11:37:32] <Spinner|support> No
[11:37:33] <Pilager> yes
[11:37:36] <Pilager> oh
[11:37:37] <Kloopy> Oh.
[11:37:38] <Kloopy> Heh.
[11:37:39] <Spinner|support> Its not indefinate
[11:37:47] <Spinner|support> 6k is the max limit, then it stops
[11:37:50] <Kloopy> Oh right.
[11:37:53] <Pilager> :O
[11:38:06] <Kloopy> Its a good idea, actually.
[11:38:08] <Kloopy> To do it like that.
[11:38:11] <Pilager> u cant have more than 6000 roids?
[11:38:17] <Pilager> or you can
[11:38:18] <Kloopy> The top players can't grow bigger and bigger faster and faster.
[11:38:21] <Kloopy> Like they could before.
[11:38:21] <Pilager> u just dont mind them
[11:38:24] <Kloopy> Exactly.
[11:38:29] <Kloopy> You could have 12k roids, but mine only 6k.
[11:38:33] <Pilager> ah
[11:38:34] <Pilager> flak
[11:38:36] <Pilager>

[11:38:36] <Kloopy> To protect you from having them all stolen.
[11:38:44] <Pilager> good idea spinner
[11:38:46] <Pilager> for once :P
[11:38:46] <Kloopy> But it does stop income from all of them, which stops you growning so big,
[11:38:47] <Pilager>

.
[11:38:48] <Kloopy> So fast.
[11:38:51] <Kloopy> Yes, I like the idea.

Gerbie · 15 Sep 2003, 11:43

You don't have to stop roiding, but it's kinda pointless to continue. I think that's the failsafe to prevent people from getting too big, thus having the game decided in a relatively early stage.

The fact that you should stop roiding does not mean that your game is over or you should stop attacking: to gain score you can set your priorities on other things then roids: ships/structures/factories. This game is not the same as old PA it's not (supposed to be) only about who gets the most roids and ships.

DarkAngel · 15 Sep 2003, 11:45

hehe, fair enough, and nice to see a response .. should be interesting if a few ppl get that far, to see how they proceed.

Kjeldoran · 15 Sep 2003, 11:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Kloopy
snip

it's a bad idea imo. It's like ASKING to farm and abuse the rules. What if you have 6800 roids? Then you can get a friend of yours to roid you for 800 roids, making him gain from it.

It's a bad rule and it asks for cheating.

rgds Kj

Scorpio · 15 Sep 2003, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel
there is a possibility, it will happen on both accounts, therefore an answer to the scenario should exist.

you're cheating?

Kal · 15 Sep 2003, 12:00

but do the roids u have over 6000 still count towards your score and value - if they do its worth carrying on attakcing, afterall u do get score for roiding

reseacher · 15 Sep 2003, 12:00

besides it would take 1.1k ticks to research minus bonus is still very long. you'd prob have to research reduced Time travel all the way if you ever wanna reach the 1k & some ship stuff. so i doubt anyone would actually get that far

DarkAngel · 15 Sep 2003, 12:05

Quote:

Originally posted by KalVirtus
but do the roids u have over 6000 still count towards your score and value - if they do its worth carrying on attakcing, afterall u do get score for roiding

I Believe they do

, u just cant mine them, thats all ...

dabult · 15 Sep 2003, 12:50

I really really dont think anybody will ever have 6k roids anyway.

Scoot951 · 15 Sep 2003, 12:56

Yes, that is a lot of research.

Gerbie · 15 Sep 2003, 13:04

The tech tree is pretty long, but so is the round. There are more ticks planned than there were in any of the beta's and people will lose less ticks in the current game. If you don't research covert ops, mining and perhaps even scans it should be doable.

das_experiment · 15 Sep 2003, 13:15

The round will last 75~~ days.

75 * 24= 1800 ticks.

There is not much time left after if you get the 6k roids thingy, if you even get it.

Jorinn · 15 Sep 2003, 14:46

Quote:

Originally posted by das_experiment
The round will last 75~~ days.

75 * 24= 1800 ticks.

There is not much time left after if you get the 6k roids thingy, if you even get it.

And it would take roughly 45 of those days to research all heavy transfers.

Hala · 15 Sep 2003, 14:54

So if you go over your limit of roids that you've researched with Heavy Cargo Transfers you get 0 from each roid you've gained? Because that means alot of people are going to have alot of useless roids in the first week or so because they have to get the other techs, especially Terrans who need to get Siege researches to get their best ships.

to this whole tech

dabult · 15 Sep 2003, 16:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Hala
So if you go over your limit of roids that you've researched with Heavy Cargo Transfers you get 0 from each roid you've gained?

No not at all, your roids only produce less than the 250 they usually do.

This is only about what would happen if you get more than 6000 roids.

Scoot951 · 15 Sep 2003, 18:37

Quote:

Originally posted by dabult
No not at all, your roids only produce less than the 250 they usually do.

This is only about what would happen if you get more than 6000 roids.

Is it known how much less?

dabult · 15 Sep 2003, 19:56

Umm...see for yourself? ;O

I calced it myself a couple of times in beta but im not really a fan of remembering things

Sdfa · 15 Sep 2003, 20:35

i calced it with my account.
my roidsmax is 100.
no change in the amount of mines.

first i had 103 roids and got 35437 units res(incl.mines!). 103 roids and my mines should give 36437 units res. 36k-35= 1k less res for 3 roids over max. for 3 roids i get with bonus (3. mining) ca. 800 units res - a lack of 200 units.

after that i init 4 roids more and got more res (800 units), i thought every roid over max give you 200 units. i init more (12) and got in total only 35174 untis res, again less than what i should get with 100 roids!

finaly i init one more roid (total 119) an i get atm 35436 units res in total.
-> one unit less than with 103 roids.

i have no idea about that. but i will calc it hopefully i find a solution

edit:

inti one more metal roid. the amount of metal i get is equal but i get over 200 crystal less

General Martok · 15 Sep 2003, 20:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Sdfa
i calced it with my account.
my roidsmax is 100.
no change in the amount of mines.

first i had 103 roids and got 35437 units res(incl.mines!). 103 roids and my mines should give 36437 units res. 36k-35= 1k less res for 3 roids over max. for 3 roids i get with bonus (3. mining) ca. 800 units res - a lack of 200 units.

after that i init 4 roids more and got more res (800 units), i thought every roid over max give you 200 units. i init more (12) and got in total only 35174 untis res, again less than what i should get with 100 roids!

finaly i init one more roid (total 119) an i get atm 35436 units res in total.
-> one unit less than with 103 roids.

i have no idea about that. but i will calc it hopefully i find a solution

edit:

inti one more metal roid. the amount of metal i get is equal but i get over 200 crystal less

I heared there's an income penalty on having too much roids. So if you can mine 200 and you have 250 roids you will get less income than someone with 200 roids or even 180

(180 is an estaimation, I have no idea how bit this penalty is....)

Hala · 16 Sep 2003, 02:33

meh thats so stupid...
its almost as stupid as these covert ops that keep delaying my research by 1 tick.

dabult · 16 Sep 2003, 09:34

Quote:

Originally posted by General Martok
I heared there's an income penalty on having too much roids. So if you can mine 200 and you have 250 roids you will get less income than someone with 200 roids or even 180 (180 is an estaimation, I have no idea how bit this penalty is....)

First time i heard that was yesterday and i got all like...wtf :eek:

On my mining-page thats only bs though. I had more than i could mine, initiated one more roid, got more in total. Only thing i ever noticed is that they produce less than 250, nothing else.

t'is all so new and wicked :duh:

DaWoodster · 16 Sep 2003, 10:50

It would take you 49 days to res mining up to 6k roids that is without researching anything else, like ships or travel time.

I think this round will be over long before the 6k roids mark.

Tomkat · 16 Sep 2003, 12:04

Actually if you go over the mark that your Heavy Cargo Transfers allows, the total doesn't.

The amount you EXTRACT goes up, yes. But the Total stays the same.

I suppose it means that you can extract plenty, but you can't transfer it so it just gets disposed of.

dabult · 16 Sep 2003, 16:23

Total now: 15125 / 11000 / 9625

*inits one m-roid*

Totals now: 15400 / 11000 / 9350

It gave me more M but on the expense of E apparently, got no calc nor time to even look at the numbers

And yes TOTAL, not EXTRACTION.

Leshy · 16 Sep 2003, 16:26

Quote:

Originally posted by dabult
It gave me more M but on the expense of E apparently, got no calc nor time to even look at the numbers

You upped your ratio of M:E roids, so it's only natural your M income goes up while your E income goes down

Sdfa · 16 Sep 2003, 16:29

Quote:

Only thing i ever noticed is that they produce less than 250, nothing else.

that is not true, you will get less resources, at least my planet does.
now my planet details:

i can mine 100 roids, i have 123 roids, 10 mines and mining is my third priority ( +5%).

(100*250+10000)*1.05 = 36750 (please corect me if this calc is false)
this should be my res income for 100 roids.

but i get (with 123 roids) only 36225. there is a penalty of 525 units res.

dabult · 16 Sep 2003, 20:40

aaaaah feck it..there are sikrit and random numbers involved, im sure of it

And btw..In beta people noticed you got 250/roid up to 99, 198 and so no, not 100, 200..this is fun!
:duh:

DarkAngel · 17 Sep 2003, 00:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Sdfa
that is not true, you will get less resources, at least my planet does.
now my planet details:

i can mine 100 roids, i have 123 roids, 10 mines and mining is my third priority ( +5%).

(100*250+10000)*1.05 = 36750 (please corect me if this calc is false)
this should be my res income for 100 roids.

but i get (with 123 roids) only 36225. there is a penalty of 525 units res.

havent checked your calc, but your method seems to be correct, would be very interesting if this was the case mind, maybe some pa offical or someone can clear this up for us ?

dabult · 17 Sep 2003, 10:42

I just calced again..yay.

I have researched for 100 roids.
I have 200.
I get a total that minus bonus/mines give me income from exactly 100 roids, divided in % to how many roids i have of each.

So no penalty, but absolutly nothing gained from having twice what i *can* mine.

DarkAngel · 17 Sep 2003, 10:46

Quote:

Originally posted by dabult
I just calced again..yay.

I have researched for 100 roids.
I have 200.
I get a total that minus bonus/mines give me income from exactly 100 roids, divided in % to how many roids i have of each.

So no penalty, but absolutly nothing gained from having twice what i *can* mine.

ty for clearing that up dabult

- how it should be imho.

SYMM · 17 Sep 2003, 10:50

hmm...
I have 205 roids, can mine 200.
200*250=51250
Mining shows as 9000 (2 of each, +1 from start),
so 60250.
Mining is my #2 priority, so *1.1=66275

My income is 64625, so i earn 1650 a tick less than i would if i had 5 fewer roids.....

DarkAngel · 17 Sep 2003, 11:01

heheh, seems we all have varying opinions, so i decided to "go & ask the experts"

Quote:

taken from #support ....

(-10:54:45-) <+Phil^> which query
(-10:55:23-) <azrael> basically, is your income reduced if you have more roids then your heavy cargo transfers allows
(-10:55:29-) <azrael> a kind of penalty
(-10:55:34-) <azrael> for overstepping.
(-10:55:46-) <+NB3> yes.
(-10:55:58-) <azrael> and if so, at what rate, etc
(-10:57:05-) * KaneED ([email protected]) has joined #support
(-10:57:05-) * P sets mode: +v KaneED
(-10:57:21-) <azrael> ..
(-10:58:18-) <+NB3> dont know what rate etc
(-10:58:30-) <azrael> k :\

so there is a penalty it seems, but they dont know what :\

SYMM · 17 Sep 2003, 11:04

My "penalty" was 1650.
THe income from 6 roids (assume the 200th, 201st etc. are not mined) would be 1500...with my 10% "bonus" (!) this gives 1650.
Maybe?

DarkAngel · 17 Sep 2003, 11:08

Quote:

Originally posted by SYMM
My "penalty" was 1650.
THe income from 6 roids (assume the 200th, 201st etc. are not mined) would be 1500...with my 10% "bonus" (!) this gives 1650.
Maybe?

well it certainly sounds feasable

Scorpio · 17 Sep 2003, 18:29

Quote:

Heavy Cargo Transfers IIII ...
Heavy Cargo Transfers VIIII ...
Heavy Cargo Transfers XIIII ...

Clearly someone wasn't paying attention during the lessons about the Romans and their numerical system.

Scoot951 · 17 Sep 2003, 19:31

So from what it sounds like, a good rule of thumb would be to say that it decreases in amount until you hit what the next level of roids should be, at which point it bottoms out to zero?

Tactitus · 17 Sep 2003, 19:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Scorpio
Clearly someone wasn't paying attention during the lessons about the Romans and their numerical system.

Roman numerals are often taught with the notation IV for 4, IX for 9, XC for 90, etc., but IIII, VIIII, LXXXX, etc. were more commonly used by the Romans themselves.

Of course, the decision to use Roman numerals at all in PA is more troubling.

dabult · 18 Sep 2003, 01:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Scoot951
So from what it sounds like, a good rule of thumb would be to say that it decreases in amount until you hit what the next level of roids should be, at which point it bottoms out to zero?

That would fit on me atleast, have researched for 100, have 200, get income from the roids that equal 100.

I calced for somebody else today...
He had researched for 50, has 160, gets income for 48. (if anybody wanted some numbers)