Planetarion Forums

Apothos · 16 Nov 2003, 21:45

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3267993.stm

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The veteran actor Christopher Lee, more used to dealing out horrific punishments in a host of horror movies, has himself been given the chop, from the final part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Return of the King. Despite this setback, the 81 year-old Lee remains very much in demand.

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it is his portrayal of Saruman which is being kept off the screen. A seven minute scene, almost word-for-word Tolkien, has been cut from The Return of the King.

After reading the first bit i thought they'd cut him from the film completely, but the second bit seems to indicate just that particular scene. Anyone know whether he's in it at all?

Bloomers III · 16 Nov 2003, 21:59

how can they cut out an entire main chracter from a film?

it doesn't make sense, so i'd assume just that scene

LHC · 16 Nov 2003, 21:59

would you bum him Bloomers?

Dante Hicks · 16 Nov 2003, 22:05

Saruman isn't "due" to be in the 3rd film much. Just his speech (remember, his army has been routed by the Ents, and I don't think they are doing the Gandalf vs Saruman test of wills thing) so it's not a big deal, and they've already messed up the character of Saruman a lot anyway.

Leshy · 16 Nov 2003, 22:08

The fact that a word-to-word Tolkien scene was scrapped does not bode well.

MrL_JaKiri · 16 Nov 2003, 22:08

They've removed him entirely from the film.

Neither the final scene in orthanc nor the scouring of the shire will be shown, which means the last you see of him is in TTT, getting distressed at the ents arriving.

It also means you don't have the bit with the bally mind contact thing.

Considering he had several years of dilly dallying in TTT, I think it's just PJ being shite.

[edit]

It'll be in the extended edition though.

Thoughts on removal of the scouring of the shire (entirely, it was never filmed):

Stupid, stupid, stupid. It removes the whole point of the film, that The Shire, hitherto unimportant in the affairs of the great, is now subject to the same things as the rest of the world.

It also removes a nice morality point; up until this point, everything 'evil' was done in the name of getting the One Ring. After the ring is destroyed, however, Saruman still takes over The Shire, which means that evil is bourn in the hearts of men (go go original sin) and not simply from some devil figure.

Oh, and people will be confused that saruman disappears without even a mention.

Apothos · 16 Nov 2003, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloomers III

how can they cut out an entire main chracter from a film?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Saruman isn't "due" to be in the 3rd film much. Just his speech (remember, his army has been routed by the Ents, and I don't think they are doing the Gandalf vs Saruman test of wills thing) so it's not a big deal, and they've already messed up the character of Saruman a lot anyway.

Like that.

Apothos · 16 Nov 2003, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

They've removed him entirely from the film.

Neither the final scene in orthanc nor the scouring of the shire will be shown, which means the last you see of him is in TTT, getting distressed at the ents arriving.

It also means you don't have the bit with the bally mind contact thing.

Considering he had several years of dilly dallying in TTT, I think it's just PJ being shite.

Ta.

Leshy · 16 Nov 2003, 22:12

Erm, Saruman's death scene is still supposed to be in the film, innit? The one that they taped like 50 different versions of? Would be a bit of a waste to completely cut him out.

They still need to retrieve the Palantír as well, and Gríma hasn't been properly 'extroduced' yet either.

MrL_JaKiri · 16 Nov 2003, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Erm, Saruman's death scene is still supposed to be in the film, innit? The one that they taped like 50 different versions of? Would be a bit of a waste to completely cut him out.

They still need to retrieve the Palantír as well, and Gríma hasn't been properly 'extroduced' yet either.

There is NO saruman in RotK. No death scene, nothing.

As I said, it's in the EE, and PJ thinks audiences will be 'confused' (or something along thoslines) if they start with the death of saruman.

Dante Hicks · 16 Nov 2003, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Oh, and people will be confused that saruman disappears without even a mention.

I though they were just going to say "Oh did you hear Grima Wormtongue stabbed Saruman to death?" kind of thing.

MrL_JaKiri · 16 Nov 2003, 22:17

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I though they were just going to say "Oh did you hear Grima Wormtongue stabbed Saruman to death?" kind of thing.

Possibly, but that makes no sense. How could pathetic idiot Grima kill Mr I'm The Main Villain Of The First Two Films, especially not without a scene?

It's like killing darth vader after the empire strikes back and just saying 'Yeah, he's dead, yay'

Leshy · 16 Nov 2003, 22:23

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

There is NO saruman in RotK. No death scene, nothing.

Did some looking around, and you're right

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As I said, it's in the EE

The RotK:EE, that is. So we won't be seeing the death scene until that one comes out then

MrL_JaKiri · 16 Nov 2003, 22:25

So this time next year then!

I reckon it'll go like this:

Mayish: Boxed set of all 3.

Julyish: RotK Normal on its own.

November: Boxed set of all 3 EE

Jan: EE on its own.

Leshy · 16 Nov 2003, 22:27

Dunno. This is troubling news though

ParraCida · 16 Nov 2003, 22:57

Bah, looks like peter jackson will **** this one up as well

deerbarn · 16 Nov 2003, 23:28

the whole palantir thing is just like kinda important for aragorn tho like innit. They just ignoring it?

Leshy · 17 Nov 2003, 01:02

They are. Apparently with scrapping Saruman's death scene, they're also scrapping the Palantír part of the story, as it's impossible to explain how they got it without the Saruman Showdown (tm).

I wonder what PJ is gonna come up with as an excuse for Sauron to launch an assault upon Minas Tirith, if any.

Nofutcha · 17 Nov 2003, 01:37

Well, we all know its gunna be better than the matrix and not as fun as kill bill.

Thats my years film wrap up.

deerbarn · 17 Nov 2003, 02:15

They probably wont need more of an excuse than 'last bastion of free men' etc

Leshy · 17 Nov 2003, 02:20

Something like that. After all, Merry and Pippin have been reduced to silly buggers for comic relief as well.

It seems more and more keeps getting lost from the books :/

ParraCida · 17 Nov 2003, 02:23

Well I understand some of his choices, after all he just has 11 hours to film it unlike 1100 pages.

However, certain decisions I do not agree with, at all. **** him.

Embroglio · 17 Nov 2003, 03:45

I thought this thread was about superman.

Tactitus · 17 Nov 2003, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

They are. Apparently with scrapping Saruman's death scene, they're also scrapping the Palantír part of the story, as it's impossible to explain how they got it without the Saruman Showdown (tm).

I wonder what PJ is gonna come up with as an excuse for Sauron to launch an assault upon Minas Tirith, if any.

Reports of wmd in Minas Tirith?

Seriously though, does Sauron need an excuse to attack Minas Tirith? In the books, Aragorn's use of the Palentir just goads Sauron into attacking before he's completely ready. It's not really necessary though, as one might imagine Sauron just launching the first of many planned attacks.

Also, there's another Palentir in Minas Tirith.

Leshy · 17 Nov 2003, 07:27

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Originally Posted by Tactitus

Seriously though, does Sauron need an excuse to attack Minas Tirith?

I suppose Sauron doesn't need much of an excuse in that regard, it's just that the Palantír storyline in the books both adds to Aragorn's character (he is ready to challenge Sauron himself) as well as provide some reasoning as to what Sauron is doing, rather than "Yeah, he's evil, so he does evil stuff."

Quote:

Also, there's another Palentir in Minas Tirith.

I thought of that one, but from what I've gathered, the missing Saruman and Palantír footage is going to show up in the EE, so they can't use that one.

The General8 · 17 Nov 2003, 16:02

Amazing but i still aint seen any of the lotr films :/

Kurashima · 17 Nov 2003, 22:35

By the time the 3rd movie comes out, i will have finished reading the third book which is in front of me.

Actually , by the time i get on the plane tomorrow morning i will have read the entire book cover to cover, as im stuck in the airport as i couldnt find a reasonable hotel within a 5 mile radius. (Thanks for the help Andy , alas , i couldnt get one with a room that was charging less than £60 a night).

Oh , and it does appear Saruman is completely removed from the film , as his stock is supposedly being removed from the castlist on www.hsx.com.

Hence , a big short for Christopher Lee

Kurashima · 17 Nov 2003, 22:36

And the story of both Palantir's will appear in the DVD version apparently , along with Sarumans 7 minute speech.