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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 11:14   #101
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I do however think that terran initiatives make them very hard to play. Also Xan are usually weak vs CRU BS I think the shadow gives xan a get out clause that they havenīt had recently against BIG ships.

I donīt know why Iīm complaining about xan as I probably will play them.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 12:26   #102
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Being able to build just 1 shipclass if they want to is a decent advantage for terrans tho and their AC isnt exactly weak.
If you go Terran DE, Xan and EMP will shoot before you (at you) and ETD + Zik after. Overal not that bad.
Ofcourse if your side has more than DE fighting then the initiative becomes a bit worse, but that's normally something you want to avoid anyway.

Xan is still weak vs CR, plus both the Fi and the Co fleet has a hole now
so it might not be the common weakness, but Xan still has enough choices to make with what to build.

Overal I dont think anyone can call the latest version 'simple' or even if it is simple to understand i doubt it will lead to simple gamplay at all.
I dunno about balance yet, but targetting and init like this will give people who like playing around with shipstats and designing fleets plenty to do and it does give everyone a chance to get an advantage by using ships effectively. Plus because some races are good vs others, landing on higher value targets as long as there is no defense shouldnt be a problem too.

Overal I like them, and I look forward to playing with them
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 13:18   #103
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
We don't need a massive overhaul of stats every single round. Changing slightly to re-balance and re-emphasise is a much better approach.

totally agree. use one that was decent, and tweak the flaws that get discovered along the way.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 18:14   #104
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Added the stats to beta including EMP

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

Made a couple of tweaks as well.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 18:54   #105
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Added the stats to beta including EMP

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

Made a couple of tweaks as well.
Please tell me a fighter sk is a mistake?
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 18:55   #106
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by Rio View Post
Please tell me a fighter sk is a mistake?
It's not. I'm perfectly willing to change it to do anything though (including removing sks, I think they're pretty cool but I don't really care).
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 18:58   #107
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I don't have an issue with sks, just think it would cause a massive problem to scanners. Although would cause the same problem to dist hores :/
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 19:09   #108
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Re: R32 Shipstats

We've had FI class sk's before, and it wasn't the end of the world.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 19:38   #109
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Re: R32 Shipstats

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

I aint touching terran (again this round)
Fi sks as PART of an attack fleet
Xans are over powered, and also didnt we learn anything from last round about xan fleet compositions? (fi/co overused)
Etd not having an ally eta 7 (when full research is done) def ships

Overall.... I think you are having a laugh.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 19:44   #110
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

I aint touching terran (again this round)
Fi sks as PART of an attack fleet
Xans are over powered, and also didnt we learn anything from last round about xan fleet compositions? (fi/co overused)
Etd not having an ally eta 7 (when full research is done) def ships

Overall.... I think you are having a laugh.
So do I, if you think the SKs as part of attack fleet is final or even intended.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:20   #111
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

I aint touching terran (again this round)
Fi sks as PART of an attack fleet
Xans are over powered, and also didnt we learn anything from last round about xan fleet compositions? (fi/co overused)
Etd not having an ally eta 7 (when full research is done) def ships

Overall.... I think you are having a laugh.
#1 if you can't see the value of having your entire fleet in one class you're not worth responding to in a stats discussion. Nonetheless I have at least 5 more minutes to wait until my dinner finishes cooking so...
#2 has been addressed (LIKE TWO POSTS ABOVE YOURS)
#3 is just laughable. On top of the fact (which I didn't mention in fairness) I'm asking pateam to lower xan research back to 85 rps per tick xan are roided by ter bs (it'll be harder to get the shadow now), cath cr, zik cr, etd de and xan co. Unless you want xan to come with ships that randomly implode during combat taking out half their own fleet I don't know what you want. And yeah if you go xan you go fi/co, just because gate ****ed up last round and fi/co ended up being what everyone went for doesn't mean I'm going to over-react like 99% of the half-baked retards who play this game and nerf it to **** for the next round.
#4 is quite true. If you go etd you won't be able to offer your ally fi/co def. If you want to offer your ally anti-fi/co def don't go etd. Much like if you want to offer your ally anti-fi/co def don't go for terran de.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:23   #112
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Re: R32 Shipstats

We havent played these stats yet and people are already claiming races to be unplayable and overpowered

Lets just wait till beta opens before we start yelling about stuff which we have no real idea.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:24   #113
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Re: R32 Shipstats

your taking the piss!
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:26   #114
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Also, i dont mind Xan having a Fi SK.. but then i dont see why no other race can have the SK within there attack fleet?

i.e. at the moment Terrans SK is CR instead of BS? If Xan can have a SK as Fi and within there attack fleet, i dont see why other races shouldnt be allowed the same
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:28   #115
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Look, I really don't care about sks. As far as I'm concerned you can all have a giant vote on what class each sk is and how efficient they are.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 20:54   #116
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Re: R32 Shipstats

im happy with the stats tbh, adding sk's to the fleets like this in my opinion is where they SHOULD belong. Its a war game.. stop pussying around the fact sk's are there let them be a part of the game. Refreshing to go back to something like this. Like i said to others if i went etd yea so what i wont have ally fi/co def but where was it ever written that every race had to def their ally with anti fi/co at eta 7? whats to say etd dont use their anti cr/bs for ally def.. stop being so narrow minded and stuck in old ways. Good stats
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 21:23   #117
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
#1 if you can't see the value of having your entire fleet in one class you're not worth responding to in a stats discussion. Nonetheless I have at least 5 more minutes to wait until my dinner finishes cooking so...
I expected more from you on this.... I partly owe my t100 finishes in r15 and r17 as a terran due to the ability to fake de as bs/cr as an attack option (ie 1 bs/cr + de = bs/cr count in case anyone was wondering) for those who do enjoy strategy from playing PA...
for this to work this did require that I have a balanced fleet composition.
Is it just me or is this beyond some folk comprehension?

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
#2 has been addressed (LIKE TWO POSTS ABOVE YOURS)
I presume the error is being corrected then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
#3 is just laughable. On top of the fact (which I didn't mention in fairness) I'm asking pateam to lower xan research back to 85 rps per tick xan are roided by ter bs (it'll be harder to get the shadow now), cath cr, zik cr, etd de and xan co. Unless you want xan to come with ships that randomly implode during combat taking out half their own fleet I don't know what you want. And yeah if you go xan you go fi/co, just because gate ****ed up last round and fi/co ended up being what everyone went for doesn't mean I'm going to over-react like 99% of the half-baked retards who play this game and nerf it to **** for the next round.
the fact that you are asking PA team to lower the research supports this.
Gate at least gave the xans a cr attack option... if the xans cant buy a cr attack fleet.... guess what, it will add to fi/co numbers.
I would say that this would be worse than previous round.

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
#4 is quite true. If you go etd you won't be able to offer your ally fi/co def. If you want to offer your ally anti-fi/co def don't go etd. Much like if you want to offer your ally anti-fi/co def don't go for terran de.
this also supports the fact that xan fi/co is powered.
unless we want a round of mainly caths and xans.... zzzzzzzzzz

edit - I am not having a go at you JBG for having a go at the stats, if anything thansk for your time that you are putting into it.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 21:28   #118
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
I expected more from you on this.... I partly owe my t100 finishes in r15 and r17 as a terran due to the ability to fake de as bs/cr as an attack option (ie 1 bs/cr + de = bs/cr count in case anyone was wondering) for those who do enjoy strategy from playing PA...
for this to work this did require that I have a balanced fleet composition.
Is it just me or is this beyond some folk comprehension?
Multiple targetting is not single targetting. Terran is very playable as de only at a minimum and faking simply doesn't work like that anymore with multiple-targetting.

Quote:
I presume the error is being corrected then?
Don't know, don't really care. If enough people think it's a horrific game-ruining idea I'm fine making them entirely useless.

Quote:
the fact that you are asking PA team to lower the research supports this.
Gate at least gave the xans a cr attack option... if the xans cant buy a cr attack fleet.... guess what, it will add to fi/co numbers.
I would say that this would be worse than previous round.
It won't be. Caths have to build cr. Terran don't have an fi/co attack option anymore. Xans fi attack fleet is countered by the co attack fleet and the co attack fleet has two zero-loss def ships. Stop. Playing. Last. Round.

Quote:
this also supports the fact that xan fi/co is powered.
unless we want a round of mainly caths and xans.... zzzzzzzzzz
Stop. Playing. Last. Round.

Quote:
edit - I am not having a go at you JBG for having a go at the stats, if anything thansk for your time that you are putting into it.
You're welcome. And I'm glad to respond to any input. Unfortunately I do believe you are hopelessly wrong and you're letting your memories of what happened last round badly cloud your judgement. This used to be pretty much the defining factor in pax each round where one round's winning race was the next round's nerfed to shit race.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 21:30   #119
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Ive been playing around with Xan for the past hour and i cant figure out how they are overpowered. No matter what ratio i decided to build, i have a big hole.. I can lower than hole by altering the ratios but then that effects my attacking efficiency alot.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl

Have a play around, and tell me how Xan Fi/Co is overpowered, other than the race being called Xan (and your obvious bias).
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 22:31   #120
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Multiple targetting is not single targetting. Terran is very playable as de only at a minimum and faking simply doesn't work like that anymore with multiple-targetting.
so has the cap rule, proportional to your value against the targets/attackers value so this would also have an effect on score etc so even with multiple targeting even with some loss from a def ships that hits the de instead of the bs/cr would still make an attack landable.

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Don't know, don't really care. If enough people think it's a horrific game-ruining idea I'm fine making them entirely useless.
Not a sentence I want to see from someone who is doing the stats.

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
It won't be. Caths have to build cr. Terran don't have an fi/co attack option anymore. Xans fi attack fleet is countered by the co attack fleet and the co attack fleet has two zero-loss def ships. Stop. Playing. Last. Round.
But most xan will still go fi/co heavy and may build a few anti bs/cr just like the previous round... deja vou?

remember that xans can send fi/co as a joint fleet (minus pod differences)
cant readily be inc scanned especially early to mid round.

at least etd had lancers (whilst not great) in r31
I would predict that certain allys will ban their members from playing ETD due to no eta 7 def capability (that can be naturally produced by etd)

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You're welcome. And I'm glad to respond to any input. Unfortunately I do believe you are hopelessly wrong and you're letting your memories of what happened last round badly cloud your judgement. This used to be pretty much the defining factor in pax each round where one round's winning race was the next round's nerfed to shit race.
What I am saying is that your stats will make last round stats look really good. more of the same but less effective def against the rampant fi/co fleets.
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 22:48   #121
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Re: R32 Shipstats

stop bitching. I think the stats are ok. But we wont know untill they are tested. Join bčta and see!
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 23:05   #122
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Paisley, this is just stupid. JBG offered to remove the SK as he doesn't seem to be a fan of them either.

And theres such a thing as offering a diff ship as ally def, most ppl who go fi/co have an anti cr/bs fr which they use. But in this case as there isnt any anti fi/co eta7, logically you would use the devastator. Whats the issue?

As for xan, splitting your attack over two classes always makes ur fleet alot weaker. I do see that the have alot of potential as always, but i also see alot of relatively good anti fi/co about as well, which there simply wasnt this round outside of someones attack fleet. (partly why i think last round sucked)

Also as light has stated go try them out, if they are so overpowered show some evidence rather then just saying they are too strong
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Unread 16 Jun 2009, 23:13   #123
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I remember Pais doing a PAX stats before. Was it good?
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 00:13   #124
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by Rio View Post
Paisley, this is just stupid. JBG offered to remove the SK as he doesn't seem to be a fan of them either.
I was pointing out why xans had sks that was in the same class as a roiding fleet + with xans having cloak advantage this offered more scope to do fake attacks. also no easy targetting that other races are hampered with alt class sizes.

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Originally Posted by Rio View Post
And theres such a thing as offering a diff ship as ally def, most ppl who go fi/co have an anti cr/bs fr which they use. But in this case as there isnt any anti fi/co eta7, logically you would use the devastator. Whats the issue?
fi/co are the only ship class that are subject to same eta def outside of gal
other classes have all races are able to offer same eta or eta -1 def against bs/cr and cath xan and zik can do eta -1 v frig/de.... also out of tag/cluster def is another subject altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
As for xan, splitting your attack over two classes always makes ur fleet alot weaker. I do see that the have alot of potential as always, but i also see alot of relatively good anti fi/co about as well, which there simply wasnt this round outside of someones attack fleet. (partly why i think last round sucked)
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Also as light has stated go try them out, if they are so overpowered show some evidence rather then just saying they are too strong
calc wise they are reasonable, strategy wise they can be overpowered
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 00:55   #125
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by furssie View Post
I remember Pais doing a PAX stats before. Was it good?

It was the round where etd was introduced (I think etd was overpowered if memory serves didnt see the round out due to RL), ziks stealer ships die, only ziks ships can steal also zik ships die, cath got emp instead of old style damage and emp resistances for all ships.

tried to find an archive with the stats.
http://www.clawofdarkness.com/pawiki/index.php/Round_20 but just blank
I have had a change of computer since then so I have no back up of it.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 07:28   #126
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I'm not too worried about Xan. They can be roided easily and def against them seems pretty strong this round.
I'm more worried about cathaar. Emp is almost as strong as last round. In earlier rounds when we had emp T1 at ~150% and T2 at ~150*0.6 = ~90%. Last round it was T1 and T2 both at around 150%. We see that now again. If you mess up emp resistance to make T2 the same as the T1, you should lower the T1 a bit.
And again Terran emp resistance isn't as good as it used to be when stats were balanced.

It would have been better to take last rounds stats and fix the mistakes rather then make a new set and make the same mistakes.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 08:12   #127
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Re: R32 Shipstats

A fighter based structurekiller?


NO.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 08:33   #128
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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structurekillers?

NO.





Though especially not a Fi one...
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 09:21   #129
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I completely overlooked SKs because I never use them and the stats look good.

I like it back to the way its supposed to be, with Terran having the big ships and xan sporting smaller ships. No more Xan Cr fleet thank god.

EMP efficiencies possibly need tweaking, but certainly not nerfing. Let's not overreact just because of last round.

Inevitably lots will go Xan, making their Fi/Co strong. So anyone with half a brain can pick a a fleet that rapes xan fi/co and get easy roids all round. Most of the balancing of the stats occurs in the actual round when people actually start building.

PS. JBG are you anticipating salvage changes?
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 09:28   #130
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Salvage has been announced at 20/30 I believe.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 09:53   #131
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
so has the cap rule, proportional to your value against the targets/attackers value so this would also have an effect on score etc so even with multiple targeting even with some loss from a def ships that hits the de instead of the bs/cr would still make an attack landable.
Er, most of the time people will cover against a fake either deliberately (because nobody builds dists just to be obtuse) or accidentally (by virtue of having their fleet at home which is something far more likely under multiple-targetting). The new cap rule is pretty much irrelevant to this. Capping an extra 50 roids isn't going to make your target run.


Quote:
Not a sentence I want to see from someone who is doing the stats.
I don't really care if the a/c on the banshee if 491 or 492 either...

Quote:
But most xan will still go fi/co heavy and may build a few anti bs/cr just like the previous round... deja vou?
Sounds like most rounds to be honest. There's nothing necessarily imbalanced about that.

Quote:
remember that xans can send fi/co as a joint fleet (minus pod differences)
cant readily be inc scanned especially early to mid round.
That's the advantage of xan. The disadvantage of xan is getting roided by multiple fleets (including itself) and not being able to concentrate into 1 or even 2 classes.

Quote:
at least etd had lancers (whilst not great) in r31
I would predict that certain allys will ban their members from playing ETD due to no eta 7 def capability (that can be naturally produced by etd)
I imagine some will. Some won't. Neither result, nor etd being unable to offer eta 7 anti-fi/co will make the stats unworkable.

Quote:
What I am saying is that your stats will make last round stats look really good. more of the same but less effective def against the rampant fi/co fleets.
Stop. Playing. Last. Round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
I'm more worried about cathaar. Emp is almost as strong as last round. In earlier rounds when we had emp T1 at ~150% and T2 at ~150*0.6 = ~90%. Last round it was T1 and T2 both at around 150%.
It's actually been this way for multiple rounds, including rounds when cath was not overpowered (the last time gate before r31 that gate did the stats he used this and cath were ****ing horrible that round). A key point to recognise here is that under the old system cathaar were significantly underpowered, I doubt a serious claim can be made for them being even balanced before r30.

Here are the cath t100 planets since multitargetting returned, 6 in r24, 5 in r25, 26 in r26, 16 in r27, 7 in r28, 11 in r29, 23 in r30 and whatever 40 plus last round. Bearing in mind that cath are actually a top heavy race (so while the biggest caths manage to survive the smaller ones usually just get raped into non-existence) and that a lot of those planets were held up on xp it's obvious that it's very easy to underpower cathaar.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 12:53   #132
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I've always disliked SKs - it's bad enough lowbies being farmed for roids without them losing their constructions as well.

But if we accept that SKs are part of the game then at least try to make using them a conscious decision rather than just having them as part of a "normal" attack fleet. In other words - please make sure that a race's SKs are not the same class as it's Pods.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 13:08   #133
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I did something a bit different with sks. If there are enough people who still think this will ruin the game somehow I'll change it back.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 13:28   #134
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I did something a bit different with sks. If there are enough people who still think this will ruin the game somehow I'll change it back.
It will ruin the game a lot for new players, but also quite a lot for normal players, in addition xan fi is gonna get a lot of def against it because they will need to full cover it to also make sure that constructions aren't lost.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 13:39   #135
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I sincerely doubt new players are distraught over getting sked, I imagine the primary issue is getting roided at all(psychologically) or having your fleet killed. Your in addition comment makes no sense as it applies to one of each race's attack fleets. What you've said makes it sound like you think sks shouldn't be part of the game though so I'm going to put you down as a support of my alternate idea of trying to make it an utterly irrelevant ship for each race.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 13:41   #136
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I would personally not be using sk's in normal gal raids, the Haunt has terrible armor/eres in comparison with the other fi's...so not even good as "flak".

I would, however, blast the shit out of whomever I was at war with. Which is the point of the game, after all.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 16:01   #137
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Here is what I think about these stats.

You've heavily streamlined everyone into playing a specific fleet comp.
I thought the idea of this round was to get people playing something other then FI/CO + X ... these stats encourage it (except it's DE/FR + Please god let me have a good FI/CO defn ship)
The only counters you're allowing players is that race A counters race B, instead of Ship Z counters ship Y but gets countered by ship X.

These stats need heavy changes if they're even to be considered playable, unless you're going for the top 100 being 90% of one race.

Etd need an eta 7 defensive ship. Period. Swap defender to either FI or CO and make it steal.

Zik needs Pirates to either be CR or another CR ship to help flack it's attacks. You've basically made them rely on successfully stealing ships or getting completely stalled for attacks.

Xan is going to get lit up this round so hard.
They get raped by both Cath and Etd.
They have FOUR ship types that all have specific uses and almost need to be built, that's just painful when everyone else is only going to be building 2.
You either need to swap one of the pod classes so they have some options, or midway through the round they're going to be pulling their hair out.

Cath is going to play exactly like they did this round, top 100 or bust.
They're really not even that OP right now, they're just OP due to how the stats reflect on them.

Ter as always is boring and average to play.


When you come down to a 2 pod round, everything is decided for you.
When there are 3 pod rounds, there is usually more diversity in the targeting system (well, if anyone had the balls to ever make targeting different).

I liked the set of stats that were the idea before this one.
I actually had to consider which race I was going to play, theses stats, it's a no brainer.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 16:41   #138
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I too was looking forward to playing the previously suggested stats, and would rather see them used than JBG's. However, JBG's stats are not at all as imbalanced as you claim them to be. The only things I can (somewhat) agree on from your post is that Xan are quite weak, statswise, and that the Pirate is pretty much useless. Though Xan still has a major advantage over other races, and if used right can make a whole lot of difference.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:19   #139
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Why do people suddenly become experts on stats and how to balance them, as soon as someone posts them.. but when asked to create there own 'balanced' set, they cant.

I bet if we look at last rounds shipstats thread, we'll find the same people voicing there wrong opinions without fact or evidence again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
A fighter based structurekiller?


NO.
I was unsure about the Fi SK but as you seem to cant find an argument against it other than "kargool says no", i think its a wonderful idea. I mean, if Xan are so OP.. what is wrong with allowing them to spend more resources in another ship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
It will ruin the game a lot for new players, but also quite a lot for normal players, in addition xan fi is gonna get a lot of def against it because they will need to full cover it to also make sure that constructions aren't lost.
Actually, most new players find losing there fleet more distressing.. So your logic, we shouldnt have kill ships in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
You've heavily streamlined everyone into playing a specific fleet comp.
No, he's just taken out the useless ships. Every race has 2 highly viable classes they can go, which is more than most rounds.

Quote:
I thought the idea of this round was to get people playing something other then FI/CO + X ... these stats encourage it (except it's DE/FR + Please god let me have a good FI/CO defn ship)
If these stats encourage it, whats the problem.. Have a play around with CR/BS as well in the bcalc, its alot more viable than you think.

Quote:
These stats need heavy changes if they're even to be considered playable, unless you're going for the top 100 being 90% of one race.
What race would that be? no wait, i already know this.. Its Xan as they're cloaked. You do know that nearly every other race (infact every race?) can roid Xan if they choose the correct fleet composition.

Quote:
Etd need an eta 7 defensive ship. Period. Swap defender to either FI or CO and make it steal.
Why? Round29 ETD was pure FR with 1 DE ship (Recluse, Ghost, Widows) and did fine.. actually, they did better than fine As long as the FR anti Fi emp ship is good, there isnt a problem.

O wait, i see what you're going to get at.. Every single race has to offer anti Fi/Co as there ally defence ship? Wrong.

Quote:
Zik needs Pirates to either be CR or another CR ship to help flack it's attacks. You've basically made them rely on successfully stealing ships or getting completely stalled for attacks.
I guess you havent looked at the stats, well.. you looked at T1 and T2 then closed it and presumed the rest of the numbers were worthless clutter? well, they arnt. Zik's are highly efficient this round, making them alot more likely to steal ships, I'd say that after playing around with the bcalc, they are the same if not better than usual. (or they can just spam that CR kill ship and roid xans).

Quote:
Xan is going to get lit up this round so hard.
They get raped by both Cath and Etd.
They have FOUR ship types that all have specific uses and almost need to be built, that's just painful when everyone else is only going to be building 2.
You either need to swap one of the pod classes so they have some options, or midway through the round they're going to be pulling their hair out.
Strange, alot of the universe is saying Xan is overpowered (psst, cuz they're cloaked!!!). Its not hard to see who plays Xan and who doesnt, those that dont play them.. always claim them to be OP regardless of the stats and those that do, claim they are UP.

Quote:
Cath is going to play exactly like they did this round, top 100 or bust.
They're really not even that OP right now, they're just OP due to how the stats reflect on them.
Thats how they always play? as soon as they fall back value wise, too many people can outflak there EMP too easily (driving them even further down the ranks).

Quote:
Ter as always is boring and average to play.
In your opinion.

Quote:
When you come down to a 2 pod round, everything is decided for you.
When there are 3 pod rounds, there is usually more diversity in the targeting system (well, if anyone had the balls to ever make targeting different).
why? 3 pods doesnt mean anything? EVERYONE always go for the best fleet composition and that is never going for all 3 pods.

Quote:
I liked the set of stats that were the idea before this one.
I actually had to consider which race I was going to play, theses stats, it's a no brainer.
Its a no brainer? we've had people claiming Xan are OP and UP in this thread.. yet, surprisingly.. no-one has ever posted a bcalc showing how Xan is OP (that requires them to be right, which they arnt).



SERIOUSLY, NONE OF YOU HAVE PLAYED THESE STATS AND BY THE LOOKS OF IT, NONE OF YOU HAVE EVEN LOADED UP THE BCALC. PRE-ROUND, GOING XAN WAS A NOBRAINER BUT YOU ALL GOT IT WRONG AGAIN AND IT WAS CATH, THE ROUND BEFORE THAT, GOING TER CR WAS THE BEST FLEET COMBO AND COMPLETLY OVERPOWERED, YOU GOT IT WRONG AGAIN. WHEN ARE YOU EVER RIGHT?
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:30   #140
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Lights useless post in attempting to look smart
Xan is shit, if you even think I would ever play Xan on these ship stats you're dreaming.
I made a mistake on race choice this round because I didn't want to be the third Xan or Cath in the BP.
I wont be making that mistake again.


Quote:
SERIOUSLY, NONE OF YOU HAVE PLAYED THESE STATS AND BY THE LOOKS OF IT, NONE OF YOU HAVE EVEN LOADED UP THE BCALC. PRE-ROUND, GOING XAN WAS A NOBRAINER BUT YOU ALL GOT IT WRONG AGAIN AND IT WAS CATH, THE ROUND BEFORE THAT, GOING TER CR WAS THE BEST FLEET COMBO AND COMPLETLY OVERPOWERED, YOU GOT IT WRONG AGAIN. WHEN ARE YOU EVER RIGHT?
It's funny, because what you're suggesting here is that no one can come to any conclusions regarding stats without playing them a full round through.
Do you know how idiotic that is?
I'm glad you put that in ALL CAPS to prove HOW SERIOUS you are about the statement, it's all wrong though.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:36   #141
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I have to agree with Light\JBG. Can people please actually look at the stats and try to play them in the beta or fiddle around in a bcalc before making retarded comments?
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:38   #142
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
Xan is shit, if you even think I would ever play Xan on these ship stats you're dreaming.
I made a mistake on race choice this round because I didn't want to be the third Xan or Cath in the BP.
I wont be making that mistake again.
Then say what race and fleet combo isnt shit? as alot of people seem to disagree with you

(note i didnt say they was OP or UP.. I havent played the stats and im not stupid.. so i dont know if they're balanced or not.)

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
It's funny, because what you're suggesting here is that no one can come to any conclusions regarding stats without playing them a full round through.
Do you know how idiotic that is?
I'm glad you put that in ALL CAPS to prove HOW SERIOUS you are about the statement, it's all wrong though.
No, i said if Xan or OP or UP.. show me in the battlecalcs?
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:49   #143
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I don't really know how you can claim xan was underpowered last round. It was dull as **** and painful to play but in terms of actual balance they clearly weren't that badly off.

Clearly it's impossible to satisfy everyone though, there are people in this thread claiming xan are overpowered.

I'm not going to actually bother replying to your post though seeing as you dismissed light's.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:53   #144
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
No, i said if Xan or OP or UP.. show me in the battlecalcs?
I was about to, now it appears they took it down
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 17:57   #145
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I don't really know how you can claim xan was underpowered last round. It was dull as **** and painful to play but in terms of actual balance they clearly weren't that badly off.
Quote:
Stop. Playing. Last. Round.
Nuff said.
I haven't said anything regarding last round until Light brought it up.

For reference, when I say "this round/last round" it means r31. Next round is R32 as it hasn't started yet.
Meh.
Quote:
Clearly it's impossible to satisfy everyone though, there are people in this thread claiming xan are overpowered.
They're insane.
Quote:
I'm not going to actually bother replying to your post though seeing as you dismissed light's.
I didn't completely dismiss his post, there was just to much random junk in there to try to counter point everything.
His entire post was an assumption that I thought Xan was SUPER GODMODE, so he was completely off the mark.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 18:03   #146
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Re: R32 Shipstats

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
I didn't completely dismiss his post, there was just to much random junk in there to try to counter point everything.
His entire post was an assumption that I thought Xan was SUPER GODMODE, so he was completely off the mark.
It shows you didnt even read my post if you got the impression i thought Xan was Super Godmode.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 18:06   #147
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
It shows you didnt even read my post if you got the impression i thought Xan was Super Godmode.
And apparently you couldn't even read that one of mine either ...
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 19:16   #148
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I FUKKIN LOVE THESE STATS MAN! I AM SO FUKKIN PUMPED FOR ROLLING OUT MY SHIPS AND JUST CURBSTOMP ALL THESE ehh.. OTHER GUYS! LET'S DO THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS HELLZ YEAH!
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 23:40   #149
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Re: R32 Shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
why? 3 pods doesnt mean anything? EVERYONE always go for the best fleet composition and that is never going for all 3 pods.
However, the best fleetcomposition really depends on what everybody else does doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I don't really know how you can claim xan was underpowered last round. It was dull as **** and painful to play but in terms of actual balance they clearly weren't that badly off.
Nice play with numbers there JBG, even you can read the difference in players in each race.

Terran 401 (23.73%) Players
Cathaar 394 (23.31%) Players
Xandahatrii 489 (28.93%) Players
Zikonian 230 (13.61%) Players
Eitraides 176 (10.41%) Players

Cath beat Xan with 15 planets in t100 (together cath and xan does 73% of the t100).

Agreed, xan wasnt the worst of, but it was far from the best race and far from balanced.
Xan were mediocre, and in terms of actual balance they were decent-ok, but when comparing them to the 2 other non-shit races they were clearly way under par.
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Unread 17 Jun 2009, 23:54   #150
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Re: R32 Shipstats

I have not touched or looked at these stats. My main question is whether zik are vaguely playable. If they are, then I'd contend then you'ld have a good set of stats as the other races aren't overly dominant.
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