Planetarion Forums - I'm too lazy to PM SiNND HC

Squidly · 2 Jun 2005, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

everything isnt about having most ships at your side. If you are smart, then 1 ship counts as 10, and if you use them smart vs ND then 1 ship counts like ~20. im quite sure you remember me roiding you with my solo attacks

sorry... are we supposed to know you? =/ And... err... I'm sorry, but noone's 2000 zik frigs look like 20000 tbh. And if they do, I'll be the first one wandering over to said ND DC's house to buy him or her some glasses. Can't say I'd be able to pick you out of a group of incs either. the comments: "CBA" and "do we care" comes to mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Maybe it did give you bad self-confidence and you started to think about yourself as "we suck" and probably sin started to think so too (after kicking me), so then some smart guy come up with the crazy idea that "lets suck thogeter, then maybe we suck less" But you forget that when 2 is sucking thogeter then it only becomes more sucking. Not good at all.

Judging by the looks of your incredibly well thought out post, I'd have to say that it's fairly unlikely that either SiN or ND regard themselves in the "We suck" category of things after you left/got kicked. tbh, if you were in ND, I somehow doubt you had any influence whatsoever on our playing ability and our view of ourselves. You don't strike me as impressive tbh =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Stuffing with a pig might feel good, but I dont think its the right thing to do. Tought from the pig´s point of view it doesnt matter who is stuffing as long someone is doing it. So I do understand why ND are doing it. But for sin; bad move

Makes me very dissapointed at you. Even mentioning that I ever been in sin makes people to laugh at me

I can explain more if you want

Yes. congratulations. You got it. You are absolutely right. [/Sarcasm]

and now on-topic after that little rant =p ...

I had fun with the SiN folk this round... They are a good bunch of loonies to play with, and their sense of humor is almost as twisted as ours is. I'm with gate on this one. A split or not, it won't really matter. We had a good time with them, hopefully they say the same, and chalk one up into the +Fun round category.

DunkelGraf · 2 Jun 2005, 23:51

I think i lost most of my roids to sinnd...........

aNgRyDuCk · 3 Jun 2005, 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banned

Will you guys be asking PATeam to split your alliances back into different tags once there are <7 ticks left?

why would we ask for that?

aNgRyDuCk · 3 Jun 2005, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by helikopter

Is this a way to treat your m/puppets? Imo it's their decision and alliance rankings don't really count. In the eyes of many PA players both alliances will remain as low-level top20 'n00b' allies. Merging them did them nothing, just helped their enemies to target them. And considering your views and mine I can safely assume that a lot of other people feel the same way about this 'witty' sinnd group.

not very bright are you

furball · 3 Jun 2005, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

well...
But if im the only one attacking, then its solo, right?

There is a clear difference between attacks and defence.
Even if the defenders happends to be friends (just a few times) then its still defence. Clearly defence is there because there is attackers. So the defence is there to fight against the attackers.

Bollocks to that. You were escorted to the top 100, without your friends you would have been nothing. All you did was to show the flaw of subversion. Nothing more.

demiGOD · 3 Jun 2005, 08:31

This round doesn't really matter anymore for SiNND. The real issue here is how SiN and ND are going to recover a stable member base next round.

Fresh bodies who will bring up their member base will be very skeptic on their loyalty to these alliances because of that lingering possibility for a political move like this to come about again next round - they can't invest all those def fleets, time and resources to these alliances when anytime, any day, they might get a message saying "hey, Sin and ND are merging again and your one of the more inactive planets in our alliance, so we're kicking you out, sorry".

The short term intentions for this move was imo a "good move" but might/will hurt them in the next coming rounds.

The_Fish · 3 Jun 2005, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by demiGOD

This round doesn't really matter anymore for SiNND. The real issue here is how SiN and ND are going to recover a stable member base next round.

Fresh bodies who will bring up their member base will be very skeptic on their loyalty to these alliances because of that lingering possibility for a political move like this to come about again next round - they can't invest all those def fleets, time and resources to these alliances when anytime, any day, they might get a message saying "hey, Sin and ND are merging again and your one of the more inactive planets in our alliance, so we're kicking you out, sorry".

The short term intentions for this move was imo a "good move" but might/will hurt them in the next coming rounds.

There is not a single member who was kicked without very poor inactivity. If anything we were too leniant for leaving them in the alliance for so long. ND has never been a 'cut throat' alliance memberwise, and we never will be.

lokken · 3 Jun 2005, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinoa

damn why didnt they think of merging LCH and ToT to make defence easier and keep morale up, if they were able to split at end of round back to indivual allies.

incase of SiNND 2 wrongs dont = 1 right

In reality the problem was they just merged instead of deciding how they were going to be one military unit from top to bottom.

But they needed to do what they did, little doubt about that.

evil n00b · 3 Jun 2005, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Bollocks to that. You were escorted to the top 100, without your friends you would have been nothing. All you did was to show the flaw of subversion. Nothing more.

Man, it was 3 friends in sin that decided to ignore sin hc and keep sending fleets to the missions. Apparently they decided that my missions was better than sins.

you say im nothing without those 3, then what are you without all your friends? lets consider all your ally mates. That makes it to quite a lot of friends
Lets take away all but 3. What are you with only 3 friends? Nothing?

As for the "flaw thingy". How long will it take you before you understand that if you cant change the ship stats to work with your strategy, then change your strategy so it works with the ship stats

Last time I played was round 6. Now imagine how stupid it would have looked if I had been playing by the same strategy I used then? According to you I must keep playing with same strategy always, or else im using "flaws". Round 12 you use round 12 strategy. If I play round 14, I wont use round 12 strategy. I make round 14 strategy so it works with round 14 ship stats. For you that too will be same as using "flaws".

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Without your friends you would have been nothing

Ahh I just love this, It is so true

may I use this when I speak with players that consider themself as having a high rank?

furball · 3 Jun 2005, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Man, it was 3 friends in sin that decided to ignore sin hc and keep sending fleets to the missions. Apparently they decided that my missions was better than sins.

you say im nothing without those 3, then what are you without all your friends? lets consider all your ally mates. That makes it to quite a lot of friends
Lets take away all but 3. What are you with only 3 friends? Nothing?

As for the "flaw thingy". How long will it take you before you understand that if you cant change the ship stats to work with your strategy, then change your strategy so it works with the ship stats

Last time I played was round 6. Now imagine how stupid it would have looked if I had been playing by the same strategy I used then? According to you I must keep playing with same strategy always, or else im using "flaws". Round 12 you use round 12 strategy. If I play round 14, I wont use round 12 strategy. I make round 14 strategy so it works with round 14 ship stats. For you that too will be same as using "flaws".

I'll be clear. Having an alliance is not the same as your situation, since your attacks would not have been so successful without your friends defending your target. Red defence, Green hostile, whatever. They attacked with you, just via defending rather than attacking.

Round 12 strategy? Sure, it worked. But it was lame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Ahh I just love this, It is so true

may I use this when I speak with players that consider themself as having a high rank?

No. You took it out of context, you know perfectly well what it meant. Without your friends defending your individual attacks through subversion, you would not have been top 100. In contrast, alliance members still do their own attacks (ignoring team-ups), even when part of an alliance attack.

Gate · 3 Jun 2005, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by demiGOD

they can't invest all those def fleets, time and resources to these alliances when anytime, any day, they might get a message saying "hey, Sin and ND are merging again and your one of the more inactive planets in our alliance, so we're kicking you out, sorry".

I don't think it can be taken that badly. People who haven't been online in 2 weeks+, or have scored under 15 defpoints (I believe I was past 90 defpoints at this stage, the average was clearly over 30), and often have 0 defpoints don't really contribute to teh alliance that much anyway. Some of these were due to rl problems and we will welcome them back next round (as those good members we kicked had simply quit, pretty much). I'm confident that this merger won't lead to our collapse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

As for the "flaw thingy". How long will it take you before you understand that if you cant change the ship stats to work with your strategy, then change your strategy so it works with the ship stats

You did it within the rules, but you used an unintended feature of ship stats (which we discovered in r11 but it wasn't as useful back then as yours). You had an exceedingly easy round using these tactics, and it was morally unfair IMO.

evil n00b · 3 Jun 2005, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

You did it within the rules, but you used an unintended feature of ship stats (which we discovered in r11 but it wasn't as useful back then as yours). You had an exceedingly easy round using these tactics, and it was morally unfair IMO.

Think like that and everything becomes moraly wrong. Hmm unfair because it was too easy for me. Ehhh?
So basicaly what you are saying is that its moraly wrong to take roids from someone because they dont belong to you.
Unfair to merge an ally because it becomes easier? Moraly wrong to attack a other race because they dont have same ships as you?
2 planets attacking 1 is unfair because he is one and you are 2.

Well play you with your "moral" rules, I play with the game rules, if you dont like it, deal with it

It did take me 10 mins to figure it out from the stats. I did even make a suggestion in sin forums to have all ziks in sin to use it and guarente sin atleast a top 3 rank, most likes top 1. But no it wasnt possible to use it like that..."it only works theoreticaly".
"since im HC then im smarter than him, and if that was a good plan, then I would have tought about it and because I didnt think abuut it then it must be a bad plan"

Neferti · 3 Jun 2005, 22:12

I believe people in NewDawn were given at least a week to show that they were active before they were booted for the merger. I don't think you can possibly argue than people logging in less than once a week are active and contributing to the alliance.

teknik · 3 Jun 2005, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Think like that and everything becomes moraly wrong. Hmm unfair because it was too easy for me. Ehhh?

its unfair because it was unintended, the stats werent balanced taking this into account. exploiting is quite a good word for it, exploiting a bug in the game.

and no, its not unfair because "it was too easy for you", he was actually pointing out (i believe) that you claim to have great skills and to "omgwtfpwn" when you used a tactic that required no skill at all.

lokken · 3 Jun 2005, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

Think like that and everything becomes moraly wrong. Hmm unfair because it was too easy for me. Ehhh?
So basicaly what you are saying is that its moraly wrong to take roids from someone because they dont belong to you.
Unfair to merge an ally because it becomes easier? Moraly wrong to attack a other race because they dont have same ships as you?
2 planets attacking 1 is unfair because he is one and you are 2.

Well play you with your "moral" rules, I play with the game rules, if you dont like it, deal with it

It did take me 10 mins to figure it out from the stats. I did even make a suggestion in sin forums to have all ziks in sin to use it and guarente sin atleast a top 3 rank, most likes top 1. But no it wasnt possible to use it like that..."it only works theoreticaly".
"since im HC then im smarter than him, and if that was a good plan, then I would have tought about it and because I didnt think abuut it then it must be a bad plan"

You played within the rules, and did a pretty good and amusing job - you smoked me due to my galaxy being asleep, but as I got them back a few days later, I don't really mind.

To claim where you got where you did solo is laughable though - you needed lackies to help you get to where you did and required your galaxy to cover up for your utter lack of defence fleet. If you did it again, I doubt that any reasonable galaxy would defend your planet.

evil n00b · 4 Jun 2005, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokken

you get to where you did and required your galaxy to cover up for your utter lack of defence fleet. If you did it again, I doubt that any reasonable galaxy would defend your planet.

So my galaxy did defend me a lot?
The (insomnia HC) GC made pretty clear that anyone that defends me against fleets named "1up fleets" will get incommings from 1up. This after I started to look at 1up as roid targets. Mainly because they did have all the roids. Yes, there was a few good ND targets, but not after they was farmed

The fun thingy was that lots of rank 500 planets and even ND attacked me claiming themselves to be in 1up.
The only one that refused to obey 1up in my gal was a HR dude. He did ignore the blowjobs offerings from sid. Yes, even I got those messages when I started to launch at 1up. First they wanted me to join 1up (give me perfect sub defence on my attacks and stuff like that). Then they wanted to have a nap with me. After that they sent their dogs after me = ND.

The strategy didnt say anything about keeping the roids. As my activity wasnt good enought to make it work. I did take 15k roids that round. Only had about 100? at end of round. So your theory of my galaxy deffing me at all cost is quite wrong. Proves that you dont even know what strategy im speaking about. You get XP from roiding, not from having roids. Before they are yours they are worth quite a lot, once they are yours you give a shit to them.

Teknik: I did not claim to have great skills. For me it was a basic strategy, talking about skills you have to do something far more advanced than that.

SteInMetz · 4 Jun 2005, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

So my galaxy did defend me a lot?
The (insomnia HC) GC made pretty clear that anyone that defends me against fleets named "1up fleets" will get incommings from 1up. This after I started to look at 1up as roid targets. Mainly because they did have all the roids. Yes, there was a few good ND targets, but not after they was farmed

The fun thingy was that lots of rank 500 planets and even ND attacked me claiming themselves to be in 1up.
The only one that refused to obey 1up in my gal was a HR dude. He did ignore the blowjobs offerings from sid. Yes, even I got those messages when I started to launch at 1up. First they wanted me to join 1up (give me perfect sub defence on my attacks and stuff like that). Then they wanted to have a nap with me. After that they sent their dogs after me = ND.

The strategy didnt say anything about keeping the roids. As my activity wasnt good enought to make it work. I did take 15k roids that round. Only had about 100? at end of round. So your theory of my galaxy deffing me at all cost is quite wrong. Proves that you dont even know what strategy im speaking about. You get XP from roiding, not from having roids. Before they are yours they are worth quite a lot, once they are yours you give a shit to them.

Teknik: I did not claim to have great skills. For me it was a basic strategy, talking about skills you have to do something far more advanced than that.

The fact that you claim we only attacked you, cause 1up wanted us to, is far far away from the truth...
You attacked ND alot, ofcourse we will target you..
And the fact that you roided alot of roids, and had no fleet, made it real simple for us to roid you.. to gain those roids back..
And i understand why your gal doesnt def you, as oyu had no fleet to def yourself a bit.. No point wasting their own fleet when they know you wont learn from the incs...

evil n00b · 4 Jun 2005, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

And i understand why your gal doesnt def you, as you had no fleet to def yourself a bit.. No point wasting their own fleet when they know you wont learn from the incs...

Well, you dont understand.
First of all, before you start to play, you make the strat(s) you will use for the whole round. If you must change the strat midround then you suck.
My strat was not to have defence fleet. Not to keep the roids. Only to roid as effective as possible.
"learn from the incs" -> there is nothing to learn midround. Everything that there is to learn, you do before the round start. This offcourse as long the stats doesnt change midround.

To keep your roids you need lots of friends. I dont have the friends to stop every roid fleet-> I cant keep my roids.
Now, if I know this (and I do), why would I have a def fleet as that would be pointless? Why would I ask people to def me, when I still get roided? Why buy ships that you cant use for roiding, as they only gives you more value -> less XP when you are roiding = less score

Gate · 4 Jun 2005, 14:55

I'd like to point out that I organised the main ND attack on evil n00b last round, and I didn't even talk to 1up about the fact I was doing so. As one of ND's main DCs that round, I was pissed off to hell with people using the 'subversion trick' and so went on a rotor of cnutting them. Some ziks lost their entire CO fleet to the attacks I organised, one particular guy lost around 50k and another lost about 30k, so you were not alone in being targetted. If you noticed, our first wave contained lancer+FI and subsequent waves were daggers+1 FR per fleet; clearly hoping to catch your CO at home (as many ziks had kept their cutlass at home previously incse it was a FI fake) and kill it off as it was pissing me off.

You were one of our main targs and though your fleet escaped, we got something like 2k free roids (you subsequently received incs for a coupla days from 2 other ND including myself, as we realised you were more value than us and we got free roids. Seemed perfectly logical). That night, we also forced you to recall from 600 roids you were going to steal from one of our top players and so I would consider it a success that we ended up ~2.6k roids better off. I hope this has been enlightening for you.

Also...

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

started to think about yourself as "we suck" and probably sin started to think so too (after kicking me),

...this implied to me you believed yourself to be something worthy of respect in an alliance. Personally, I would not put up with someone who played like you did and refused to defend alliance mates, particularly if they roided our friends and allies. In fact, I would like to think morale would go up after someone playing in a selfish manner got dropped from the alliance.

This isn't meant to be a personal attack on you; merely on the way you played last round. For example, cocteau played very dishonourably last round but I had a quick discussion with him on IRC this round and he seemed a perfectly good guy; ChronoX I got on with too, and he's an alright guy, but he plays as a disloyal, arrogant, shipjumping twat.

Hurragutten · 4 Jun 2005, 22:50

Why on earth should they split up when there are 7 ticks left. What would be the benefits of that? Nothing.
I cant understand the reson for this question - unless you are in an ally wanting to get 1 place ahead in the rankings.

Gate · 4 Jun 2005, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurragutten

Why on earth should they split up when there are 7 ticks left. What would be the benefits of that? Nothing.
I cant understand the reson for this question - unless you are in an ally wanting to get 1 place ahead in the rankings.

As a member of NewDawn I would be perfectly happy for us to be split 7 ticks to end (or whatever), as it means that NewDawn would end up with their rightful place on the alliance rankings, whatever that rank is.

The merge achieved its aim of encouraging activity and giving those with teh balls to carry on an enjoyable end of round. We lost this round, but we could atleast end with honour in our rightful places.

That's just my opinion though/

Hurragutten · 5 Jun 2005, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

As a member of NewDawn I would be perfectly happy for us to be split 7 ticks to end (or whatever), as it means that NewDawn would end up with their rightful place on the alliance rankings, whatever that rank is.

The merge achieved its aim of encouraging activity and giving those with teh balls to carry on an enjoyable end of round. We lost this round, but we could atleast end with honour in our rightful places.

That's just my opinion though/

Isn't the rightfull place the place that the two allies have reached togather? Ater all you have got the possible defence frm each other so no matter how close your cooperation has been you should be ranked as one ally as far as i consider. But I really dont care

Kushan · 6 Jun 2005, 08:20

I have alot of ND and SiN in my galaxy and I would say that from a defence point of view that the SiN players have gotten more defence since the merger than before, the ND defence has remianed consistently high throughout the round. I wonder if SiN would be better of merging into ND properly?

Kushan

Neferti · 6 Jun 2005, 15:55

That's not true of all SiN/ND members, to my knowledge. Certainly not for me: I got defended more often after the merger. At least at first.

Jackal2112 · 6 Jun 2005, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alki

ah yes forgot to answer that, and i agree, but look at it from there pov going from top10 alliances last round to not even top10 this round, bit embarrasing isnt it?

Rank is overrated

_Kila_ · 6 Jun 2005, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neferti

That's not true of all SiN/ND members, to my knowledge. Certainly not for me: I got defended more often after the merger. At least at first.

Kushan is right. Before merge me and Bella didn't get very much def, now we get quite a bit more.

Neferti · 7 Jun 2005, 01:55

Hey, I didnt say that SiN members didnt get more defense too

Alessio · 7 Jun 2005, 08:26

Just split manually.. NOW!! before the round ends...

Quick Quick Quick!!!

aNgRyDuCk · 7 Jun 2005, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessio

Just split manually.. NOW!! before the round ends...

Quick Quick Quick!!!

LOL....we'll get right on that....

Cocteau · 14 Jun 2005, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

For example, cocteau played very dishonourably last round but I had a quick discussion with him on IRC this round and he seemed a perfectly good guy;

oi

You r0x Gate!

cypher · 14 Jun 2005, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

This isn't meant to be a personal attack on you; merely on the way you played last round. For example, cocteau played very dishonourably last round but I had a quick discussion with him on IRC this round and he seemed a perfectly good guy; ChronoX I got on with too, and he's an alright guy, but he plays as a disloyal, arrogant, shipjumping twat.

anyone under my control plays properly ofc :P

and chronox... heh well i can't understand why alliances keep people who are more loyal to hostile galmates then to their own alliances.... that's very bad HCing imo.

noah02 · 14 Jun 2005, 16:49

evil-noob if i am correct and correct me if I am wrong but did'nt you get kicked from SiN because all you did was build ships only for your attacks and didnt have one defensive ship to your name and kept asking for defence constantly ?
If thats good tactics then wtf i hope all alliancess dont start this.

Gate · 14 Jun 2005, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah02

evil-noob if i am correct and correct me if I am wrong but did'nt you get kicked from SiN because all you did was build ships only for your attacks and didnt have one defensive ship to your name and kept asking for defence constantly ?
If thats good tactics then wtf i hope all alliancess dont start this.

I was under the impression that evil_n00b was not too bothered about defence due to his manner of play.

But I could be very wrong ofc.

EDIT: I'd also like to compare evil_n00b's style of play to those in CTF who suicide fleets etc whilst they own their gal's flag, so they are so small that they cannot be attacked. It works, but it sucks for the game.

Proxi · 15 Jun 2005, 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cypher

and chronox... heh well i can't understand why alliances keep people who are more loyal to hostile galmates then to their own alliances.... that's very bad HCing imo.

Chronox isnt a bad bloke, give him a chance and you'll see. He does however get a bit jumpy in hot water.

Anihilat0r · 15 Jun 2005, 14:36

HR did give him a chance, as you well know.
That turned out brilliantly of course.
The guy is a waste of effort.

Envious · 15 Jun 2005, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil n00b

First of all, before you start to play, you make the strat(s) you will use for the whole round. If you must change the strat midround then you suck.

Damn. Up to this point i really thought you had some clue.

Grog · 16 Jun 2005, 00:11

Evilnoob did end up with a lot of XPs that round, but he did it by being the epitome of a selfish player.

I had a Xan gal mate who repeatedly offered his fighters to me for subversion missions, but I regularly turned him down.
To use his fleet that way would of just been a waste, much better for that fleet to be out attacking/defending & being actually useful to our alliance.
I did ofc wish to do well, but not at his expense.

Evilnoob employed a selfish strategy where the only one who ever benefited from it was himself. He gained roids he couldn't keep, He tied up 2/3 fleets a night that certainly could of been put to better use & he drew a huge amount of hostiles to his planet.

If your only reason for playing is to do as well individually as you can, with no regard for anyone else, then yes Evilnoobs strategy was successful.

Personally I just see anyone who'd spend a rnd like that as an annoying useless twat & I'm amazed at how consistently he found people willing to help him.

Alki · 16 Jun 2005, 02:13

fact is he did, he beat the system and he pissed alot of people off. tbh thats mission accomplished and i find it utterly hilarious

lokken · 16 Jun 2005, 12:43

Thing is evil_n00b resulted in a great advantage for me.

I built 15k buccaneers so he couldn't roid me, which resulted in me being able to defend 3 relatively large CO incomings for ND per night.