Planetarion Forums

Androme · 2 Jan 2003, 16:31

Btw - anything else other than Kazaa around? (WinMX sucks imo.)

Quote:

U.S. liability looms over Kazaa
By John Borland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
November 25, 2002, 5:25 PM PT
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-971086.html

A Los Angeles federal judge heard arguments Monday as to whether record companies and movie studios can sue the parent company of Kazaa, the most popular online file-swapping service, in the United States.
Much of Kazaa's future, from a business and legal perspective, hangs on the judge's decision. The parent company, Sharman Networks, is headquartered in Australia and incorporated in the Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu, and has tried to keep business contact with the United States to a minimum in order to decrease its legal risk.

If a judge says Sharman can be sued in the United States, Kazaa will get sucked into the same legal maelstrom that has grabbed Napster, Aimster, Audio Galaxy, Grokster and Morpheus, closing some of the popular services and threatening the existence of the others. The Kazaa case is the biggest yet in the recent copyright wars that have been testing the international reach of U.S. courts.

The judge did not rule on the issue Monday, but observers said he appeared ready to order Sharman to stand trial. A ruling is expected in the next several weeks.

"He seemed like he was pretty interested in keeping Sharman in the case," said Fred von Lohmann, senior intellectual-property attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is representing Sharman rival Streamcast Networks in an associated case.

The issue of cross-border legal reach has become increasingly important as companies dealing in file-swapping, and other Internet businesses offering copyrighted works, have popped overseas. Record companies, movie studios and software companies have been forced to scramble and use unconventional legal and technological means to attack these services.

The Kazaa case itself may not lead to a sweeping legal precedent, however. Jurisdictional arguments rise and fall on whether a company has sufficient contact with United States residents to make it liable under U.S. law. However, in Sharman's case, the company itself has a contract with its peer-to-peer technology vendor, Blastoise, which says that disputes should be litigated in Los Angeles court, according to a record industry attorney.

"There's nothing novel in the law here," said Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) Senior Vice President Matt Oppenheim.

Sharman attorney Rod Dorman said the earlier contract has been renegotiated so that any disputes would take place in the United Kingdom, not the United States. He says the company simply hasn't had enough business contact inside the United States to be sued there.

That doesn't mean the company is trying to avoid legal contact with the record labels or movie studios altogether. The copyright holders can come to the company's headquarters in Australia and sue it there, Dorman said.

"Sharman has not purposively availed itself of the privileges of doing business in California to a sufficient amount to establish jurisdiction," Dorman said.

Sharman has expanded its operations to allow commerce activities and advertising inside its Kazaa file-swapping service over the past few months. However, it has backed away from offering a promised paid subscription service, many of the subscribers to which would have likely been U.S. residents. That decision could be revisited should a judge rule that it is already subject to U.S laws.

If Sharman loses this round, the company will be added to a larger lawsuit ongoing against Streamcast Networks and Grokster, two rival file-swapping companies that use the same underlying technology as Sharman.

A critical hearing in that case will be held Dec. 2, in which both sides will argue that the case should be concluded immediately with a so-called summary judgment without going to a full trial. Each side is arguing for the completion of the case in its own favor.

Ste · 2 Jan 2003, 16:35

bah.

Tobe · 2 Jan 2003, 16:38

tossers

Jammers · 2 Jan 2003, 16:43

How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

Structural Integrity · 2 Jan 2003, 16:54

When is the first (decent) opensource filesharing proggy going to pop up? It'll be a lot harder to sue something like that

ParraCida · 2 Jan 2003, 16:59

http://www.neo-modus.com

try sueing that you bitches.

queball · 2 Jan 2003, 17:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

Not long?

ParraCida · 2 Jan 2003, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

Imo thats a bad arguement. Its no more different then saying, how can you copyright molecules organized in a certain way.
Its not about the material but about the idea, and there are laws about that recognized by most countries on this planet.

CjC · 2 Jan 2003, 17:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

Erm, How do you think music is stored on CD's you buy dude? I think that argument would be thrown out of court quite sharpish.

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
Not long?

Hmmm, again slightly shallow arguement.

BesigedB · 2 Jan 2003, 17:52

I suggest you use this. It ****ing owns.

Snurx · 2 Jan 2003, 18:52

queball, thanks for that link.

And no matter how many get sued, or how many filesharing networks get take off, two weeks later 10 more has pooped up, better protecked than the last.
Its impossible to stop, short off turning off the net.

Radical Edward · 2 Jan 2003, 19:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

it's called data.

Androme · 2 Jan 2003, 19:32

I prefer the kazaa gui tho :/

W · 2 Jan 2003, 19:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Snurx
...short off turning off the net.

I'm waiting for it.

Snurx · 2 Jan 2003, 19:49

Quote:

Originally posted by W
I'm waiting for it.

Then its back to the ol' racking.

This is so much easier.

acropolis · 2 Jan 2003, 20:17

kazaa has sucked forever anyway.

and people have been copywriting numbers forever; it's the same as copyrighting letters really, which is basically everything that copyrighting is:/

anyhoo the tossers who were using the computer in the lab to download porn (who downloads so much porn that you can no longer copy small text files to oyur desktop?) used 'bearshare' which sounds pretty gay but apparently has plenty of porn, significantly porn that was not on the morpheus and kazaa loop. or so i'm told.

the real problem is not the lawyers though, it is simply that running one of those p2p networks costs a lot and has no income, so they would be going out of business anyway.

Golin · 2 Jan 2003, 20:21

i need some new pr0n anehway

BesigedB · 2 Jan 2003, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by acropolis
the real problem is not the lawyers though, it is simply that running one of those p2p networks costs a lot and has no income, so they would be going out of business anyway.

apart from when you get paid by the bucketload to have computer killing spyware piggyback onto your software.

at0mic.c0w · 2 Jan 2003, 21:47

i wonder what a us court can do to a company located in the Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu

Lord Zor · 2 Jan 2003, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

ace...

Mirai · 2 Jan 2003, 22:54

www.imesh.com

's what I use.

Only problem is that even if you say not to share files, it still shares your download directory. You have to watch it closely if you have bandwidth limits.

Erkenbrand · 2 Jan 2003, 23:53

The best place to get music today is from private FTPs.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?

God, that is a bad argument. Companies shouldn't be allowed to copyright drugs, their made from atoms!!!

Seriously though, copyright is one of the main reasons for today's greedy soceity. People now create for profit over enjoyment. It allows products to be sold at artificaly high prices, placing them above the reach of some social brackets.

Basicaly copyright is a prime cause of scarcity which the whole the system of economics is based on. Without it this world would be completely different.

BTW Does anyone have pics from the RIAA hack the other day?

Ragnarak · 3 Jan 2003, 00:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Erkenbrand
The best place to get music today is from private FTPs.

yeah but they're not easy to find, especially when you're on a 56k modem

hint hint pm hint ;p

Erkenbrand · 3 Jan 2003, 00:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarak
yeah but they're not easy to find, especially when you're on a 56k modem

hint hint pm hint ;p

Not to twist your arm, but, get me RIAA hack pics and I'll get you an ftp

(Or if someone else just posts them)

Androme · 3 Jan 2003, 00:40

I need a PM.

Auro · 3 Jan 2003, 00:49

me <3 SADCHUB

Ragnarak · 3 Jan 2003, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Erkenbrand
Not to twist your arm, but, get me RIAA hack pics and I'll get you an ftp

(Or if someone else just posts them)

the one from a while ago where they altered the front page to say filesharing is good and offered links to download some songs?

or has there been another more recent hack?

i have pics of the old one but my computer just died and can't get anything from it atm

queball · 3 Jan 2003, 01:06

The latest one was 30th Dec 2002 and posted on the imitable slashdot.

edit: http://www.google.com/search?q=riaa+hacked

Erkenbrand · 3 Jan 2003, 01:15

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
The latest one was 30th Dec 2002 and posted on the imitable slashdot.

Cheers, thats the one. After finding out that a ****** is on it I'm not particularly anxious to see.

Quote:

Originally posted by Auro

me <3 SADCHUB

You have to register with goons for that hub, which is something I won't be doing.

This talk of SA reminds of the catchphrase 'Huge like an Xbox'. Even now it makes me laugh.

sayonara · 3 Jan 2003, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Erkenbrand
God, that is a bad argument. Companies shouldn't be allowed to copyright drugs, their made from atoms!!!

You don't copyright a drug, you patent it. Completely different laws with completely different approaches, protecting completely different things.

Quote:

Seriously though, copyright is one of the main reasons for today's greedy soceity. People now create for profit over enjoyment. It allows products to be sold at artificaly high prices, placing them above the reach of some social brackets.

Basicaly copyright is a prime cause of scarcity which the whole the system of economics is based on. Without it this world would be completely different.

I have to say I disagree with this. Can you imagine what media and the arts would be like without copyright? We would be awash in a sea of crap clones and shoddy knock-offs without any way of navigating.

The fact that copyright gives publishers and distributers as much legal right to material as the author is a huge bonus for companies and a pain in the arse for people like you and me - however this does not invalidate the sentiment behind copyright law, which is designed to protect original intellectual works.

Erkenbrand · 3 Jan 2003, 01:49

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
You don't copyright a drug, you patent it. Completely different laws with completely different approaches, protecting completely different things.

[PATENT]
A grant made by a government that confers upon the creator of an invention the sole right to make, use, and sell that invention for a set period of time.
[COPYRIGHT]
The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work.

In both cases a monopoly exists for the holder of the grant.

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
I have to say I disagree with this. Can you imagine what media and the arts would be like without copyright? We would be awash in a sea of crap clones and shoddy knock-offs without any way of navigating.

As I said this is the thinking behind copyright, people will not create anything worthwhile if there is no profit involved for them. Granted if copyright was abolished today we could well be awash in 'a sea of crap'. However, I am arguing that if copyright had never been introduced the profit above all else mentality would not be as prominent, leading to creation as a form of expression rather than a means to aquire wealth.

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara

The fact that copyright gives publishers and distributers as much legal right to material as the author is a huge bonus for companies and a pain in the arse for people like you and me - however this does not invalidate the sentiment behind copyright law, which is designed to protect original intellectual works.

Oh, the sentiment behind copyright is indeed a righteous one, however the branches and offshoots of that sentiment have been twisted out of all proportion.

W · 3 Jan 2003, 02:06

I made the music, I own it, I'm the one that desides when and how you get to use it. Now instantly delete every pieces of music by me, even if you bought it. Buying my music in no way makes you the owner. Alright then, keep the cd's and stuff, you just aren't allowed to reproduce the music in the form of sound waves any longer.

Coffee · 3 Jan 2003, 02:08

I'm glad. Then the bulk of the people will move off that spyware infested crufty piece of **** and use some openly specced one instead!

down with kazaa.

3 Jan 2003, 02:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirai
www.imesh.com

isn't imesh jam packed full of every type of spyware imaginable??

the only thing i download off the net is music, so i just use WinMX, i'm not a fussy person.

3 Jan 2003, 02:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirai
www.imesh.com

isn't imesh jam packed full of every type of spyware imaginable??

the only thing i download off the net is music, so i just use WinMX, i'm not a fussy person.:S

Akallabeth · 3 Jan 2003, 03:54

DC++ all the way. fs ... let KAzaa burn