Would you see a prostitute?

[Matrim]

Or, rather, if that's a difficult question: If your friend, who didn't have a girl or boyfriend, went to a prostitute for sex, would you look down on him/her?


I sure as hell would.


Or should we pay more attention to our hormones?







Matrim

[Belgarath The Sorcerer]

Not at all.

[ParraCida]

You probably have a friend who went to the whores.



Statistically.

[JonnyBGood]

Probably not. I'd be afraid of catching syphilis or something despite any measures taken for protection etc.

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Probably not. I'd be afraid of catching syphilis or something despite any measures taken for protection etc.

Thats like THE most lame reason there is btw.

I mean you could say no for a lot of reasons, but being too afraid to go see a prostitute is really bad

[sayonara]

(no)

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by ParraCida
Thats like THE most lame reason there is btw.

I mean you could say no for a lot of reasons, but being too afraid to go see a prostitute is really bad

Ok then I have a substantial moral objection towards depriving a woman of her rights, in spite of any material compensation. Better?

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Ok then I have a substantial moral objection towards depriving a woman of her rights, in spite of any material compensation. Better?

Now go tell it to the children.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by ParraCida
Now go tell it to the children.

I also have a moral objection to informing other people's children of my personal views without parental consent. I feel it may be destructive of their intellectual growth as a human being, and this clause operates separately of any opinions I may hold at the current point in time.

[Rhumsaa]

Prostitutes are there to be used

I probably would never have the nerve

[MrL_JaKiri]

I've seen a prostitute.

She was chasing Sunday8pm down a street in Glasgow.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Miasma
trying to give him a refund no doubt.

'Cheap sex, only a tenner' was the hag's cry.

He probably looks the type.

[Sarina_Joy]

probably?

[W]

I wouldn't, but

Originally posted by Matrim
Or, rather, if that's a difficult question: If your friend, who didn't have a girl or boyfriend, went to a prostitute for sex, would you look down on him/her?

no,

I sure as hell would.

why?

[Sirad]

in the scoreing game
useing date rape drugs - 3 points
actually Paying money for sex -2 points
spending more in booze then paying for sex -1 point
incest / no sex +-0 points
finding a known slut and saying you want to **** her and she agrees 1 point
spending a week to work on a girl who you only know a short time 2 points
finding a church going virgin god worshiping chastity believe virgin and popping her 3 points (4 if its in church)

[RooKie]

u noughty cow :P

[Rhumsaa]

Originally posted by sirad
in the scoreing game
useing date rape drugs - 3 points
actually Paying money for sex -2 points
spending more in booze then paying for sex -1 point
incest / no sex +-0 points
finding a known slut and saying you want to **** her and she agrees 1 point
spending a week to work on a girl who you only know a short time 2 points
finding a church going virgin god worshiping chastity believe virgin and popping her 3 points (4 if its in church)

1 extra point for some christian virgin?

**** that

just do 3 sluts in a row

Omg :-) It's Sirad....
Run
heheh..........

[Auro]

I've done a Buddhist virgin. Does that count as 4?

[Pyr0 MK III]

I'd never go to a whore, i'd be so paranoid about diseases and ****.

Although I wouldn't look down on a friend who had.

[xtothez]

Originally posted by sirad
incest +-0 points

!

[Matrim]

Originally posted by W


why?

Why I would look down on a friend who went to a prostitute:

I have thought about it, and in my mind "seeing prostitute = failure". Seeing one means either that you don't care about paying a junkie (in many cases) as long as you can have sex; you don't care that this person is a wreck who offer services only to be able to afford addictive narcotics. You are in fact taking advantage of another person's miserable and hopeless situation in life. That shows a total lack of care for other individuals, or at least for individuals that my 'friend' consider 'lower' that him or her. That is not a treat I consider valuable.

Or perhaps that your chances of having a lover who doesn't charge you are so slim that you go to a prostitute in mere desperation; and that I also see as a kind of weakness. This 'friend' would probably receive more pity than scorn, I don't know which is worst in this case.


To sum up, a friend who either treats other persons as dirt or deserveses so much pity can never be an equal in my eyes; for that I'd have to be like them, and in my current situation I don't feel that way. So I would not truly regard them as proper, deserving friends.




Matrim

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Matrim
I have thought about it, and in my mind "seeing prostitute = failure". Seeing one means either that you don't care about paying a junkie (in many cases) as long as you can have sex; you don't care that this person is a wreck who offer services only to be able to afford addictive narcotics. You are in fact taking advantage of another person's miserable and hopeless situation in life. That shows a total lack of care for other individuals, or at least for individuals that my 'friend' consider 'lower' that him or her. That is not a treat I consider valuable.

You have a very narrow minded media inspired vision of prostitution. What you say may be true for many of the 'street prostitutes' but that's by no means the whole of the profession...

[xtrasyn]

I dig prostitutes.

Never been to one though. It's a pay thing.

If it was a matriarchal tribe service I think I would have made use of it.

[Ste]

Originally posted by Matrim
Or, rather, if that's a difficult question: If your friend, who didn't have a girl or boyfriend, went to a prostitute for sex, would you look down on him/her?

I sure as hell would.

Or should we pay more attention to our hormones?

Matrim

Ok, never had to use a prostitute, as I've had girlfriends since the urges started, but I wouldn't look down on anyone who had.
Girls are sometimes more expensive than prostitutes if you think about it - how much difference is there in going to a club and spending £30 on drinks for a girl in the hope of getting somewhere or going to the end of a street and paying a woman there £20 for a blow job?
It's the oldest profession in the world (allegedly) and would be a lot less seedy if it was legalised and/or tolerated to an extent.
TBH - if it wasn't for the dirty diseases a lot of them carry it would be a safe option. It would stop a lot of date-rape and drugging in clubs. A quick easy shag without any emotional extras could be a much easier option than some past experiences of my own and no doubt some of yours...

On a seperate note - Would you look down on friends for going to a strip club? or watching a porn film? Or having cyber sex ffs!

[[GAP]Obiwan]

Girlfriends = £30 drinks, £10 cab home
Prostitutes = £20 blowjob, £50 sex

--------------------------

Shagging a slut in a pubs toilet = PRICELESS!!!

---------------------------

There are some things money can't buy, for everything else theres alcohol.

[Little Timmy]

Oh Dear. Some very poor misconceptions of Prostitutes.

Not all Prostitutes are Junkies

Most Prostitutes do not stand on street corners.

As for diseases, you are more likely to catch something from your "picking up some girl in a club" attitudes.

Prostitutes are well aware of the dangers relating to STD's. They will mostly insist on condoms always being worn. Unless of course you are talking about your cheap crack whores. They also regularly have medical check ups. In some countries this is a requirement by law.

How many women do you meet in clubs that always insist on condoms ? Do you always insist on condoms ?(obviously not required for you hairy handed virgins out there)


Open your eyes to reality.

And then to the point of the original question. Why condem someone for seeing a prostitute ? no strings attached sex with someone who will never ring you, and would probably be better looking than anything your "friend" might be able to pull ?

Well I understand Lyndsey Dawn McKenzie "escorts" at something like £750 per hour.
So if your mate comes home bragging hes just shagged her, you really going to condem him ?

[sigrid]

Originally posted by Ste
Ok, never had to use a prostitute, as I've had girlfriends since the urges started, but I wouldn't look down on anyone who had.
Girls are sometimes more expensive than prostitutes if you think about it - how much difference is there in going to a club and spending £30 on drinks for a girl in the hope of getting somewhere or going to the end of a street and paying a woman there £20 for a blow job?
It's the oldest profession in the world (allegedly) and would be a lot less seedy if it was legalised and/or tolerated to an extent.
TBH - if it wasn't for the dirty diseases a lot of them carry it would be a safe option. It would stop a lot of date-rape and drugging in clubs. A quick easy shag without any emotional extras could be a much easier option than some past experiences of my own and no doubt some of yours...

On a seperate note - Would you look down on friends for going to a strip club? or watching a porn film? Or having cyber sex ffs!

its legal in holland..sigh
but then again, whats not fs

[Marilyn Manson]

I think my friend may very well need to seek the services of a prostitute soon. He's nearly 20 and to my knowledge has never had a girlfriend. Why he doesn't post on here is a mystery. All the other 20 year-old virgins in the world seem to.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

I dont see the problem.

As long as it is a transaction between two consenting adults, there is no difference between hiring a prostitute and hiring a plumber.

[Ste]

Originally posted by Fifth_teletubbie
I dont see the problem.

As long as it is a transaction between two consenting adults, there is no difference between hiring a prostitute and hiring a plumber.

It all gets a little hazy when you consider who gets the money. If the prostitute gets it then fine. If some pimp gets it and threatens to kill her for her troubles then it's very bad.

There was a report recently about some Albanian girl, aged 14, who was kidnapped and brought to England and forced onto the streets under fear of torture.
Her 'owner' would force her to have unprotected anal sex with strangers, give her just enough to live and harshly rape her if she didn't earn a certain amount a day (didn't beat her as it would make her less attractive).
She didn't realise that our police aren't as corrupt as abroad but after about 18 months of this abuse she finally went to them and her abusers were caught.
Not a nice story... but you have to realise how bad prostitution can be...

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Ste
It all gets a little hazy when you consider who gets the money. If the prostitute gets it then fine. If some pimp gets it and threatens to kill her for her troubles then it's very bad.

There was a report recently about some Albanian girl, aged 14, who was kidnapped and brought to England and forced onto the streets under fear of torture.
Her 'owner' would force her to have unprotected anal sex with strangers, give her just enough to live and harshly rape her if she didn't earn a certain amount a day (didn't beat her as it would make her less attractive).
She didn't realise that our police aren't as corrupt as abroad but after about 18 months of this abuse she finally went to them and her abusers were caught.
Not a nice story... but you have to realise how bad prostitution can be...

Yup, that is one of the reasons why Holland has legalised prostitution. It is to try and put an end to excesses like this.

I believe that in Holland at least most brothels are more or less respectable places of business where nothing more sinister than a bit of tax evasion goes on.

Illegal prostitution should be eradicated though.

[skiddy]

I have.

Amsterdam.

She was behind a window though, so we kept on walking.

[Little Timmy]

Originally posted by Ste
It all gets a little hazy when you consider who gets the money. If the prostitute gets it then fine. If some pimp gets it and threatens to kill her for her troubles then it's very bad.

There was a report recently about some Albanian girl, aged 14, who was kidnapped and brought to England and forced onto the streets under fear of torture.
Her 'owner' would force her to have unprotected anal sex with strangers, give her just enough to live and harshly rape her if she didn't earn a certain amount a day (didn't beat her as it would make her less attractive).
She didn't realise that our police aren't as corrupt as abroad but after about 18 months of this abuse she finally went to them and her abusers were caught.
Not a nice story... but you have to realise how bad prostitution can be...

Yes it can be very bad if not controlled. Thats why it should be legalised especially in the UK. have a look at many of the "escort" sites. A lot of the girls look stunning....well assuming the pictures really are of them

[Ste]

Originally posted by Little Timmy
Yes it can be very bad if not controlled. Thats why it should be legalised especially in the UK. have a look at many of the "escort" sites. A lot of the girls look stunning....well assuming the pictures really are of them

Legalising it wouldn't be enough. It would need to be controlled and licensed. But seriously - anyone who (even legally) worked as a prostitute would generally be treated as a second-class citizen in there social life.
I mean - would any self-respecting man go out, or even fall in love, with a prostitute?

[Dante Hicks]

If a friend went to see an attractive prostitute then no - I wouldn't look down on them. On a purely anecdotal basis though, most prostitutes appear to be fairly ugly.

There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with letting people providing a service with their own bodies. If we are going to look down on prostitutes then why not masseurs or personal fitness instructors, or whatever?

The only issue is people being economically pressured into something they may feel to be self-degrading. (But the same could be said for actors, clowns, or whatever)

[Little Timmy]

Originally posted by Ste
Legalising it wouldn't be enough. It would need to be controlled and licensed. But seriously - anyone who (even legally) worked as a prostitute would generally be treated as a second-class citizen in there social life.
I mean - would any self-respecting man go out, or even fall in love, with a prostitute?

Im sure it happens. Its like saying would any man really join a swingers club and be happy to let his wife taken by other men right in front of his eyes.For free !!!

It takes all sorts to make the world. Just because something doesnt conform to our own versions of Normality doesn't mean we should condemn it.

[W]

Originally posted by Matrim
I have thought about it, and in my mind "seeing prostitute = failure".

What exactly is it you're failing at tho?

Seeing one means either that you don't care about paying a junkie (in many cases) as long as you can have sex; you don't care that this person is a wreck who offer services only to be able to afford addictive narcotics.

Come on. You can't be this stupid, to think that all prostitutes do it to finance a drug habit! Anyway, when you buy your groceries or order a plumber, are you as critical of what the money is used for after it leaves your hands? Or is this merely an excuse, rationalization that only apply to sex?

You are in fact taking advantage of another person's miserable and hopeless situation in life.

As do anyone which calls tech support, or pays housecleaners etc. We all work just to get money we othervise don't have. This is no different when it comes to prostitution than in any other line of buisness.

That shows a total lack of care for other individuals, or at least for individuals that my 'friend' consider 'lower' that him or her. That is not a treat I consider valuable.

Are you sure it would be your friend that separates individuals into classes, and not yourself? Perhaps your friend looks highly upon the prostitute, which meets a need few others are willing to supply. You're the one who assume all prostitutes are junkies with no other choice than prostitution or other crime.

Or perhaps that your chances of having a lover who doesn't charge you are so slim that you go to a prostitute in mere desperation; and that I also see as a kind of weakness. This 'friend' would probably receive more pity than scorn, I don't know which is worst in this case.

There are other reasons for giung to a prostitute. Perhaps you don't want a relationship. Perhaps you think it's more honest than paying a girl with drinks for a one night stand.

To sum up, a friend who either treats other persons as dirt or deserveses so much pity can never be an equal in my eyes; for that I'd have to be like them, and in my current situation I don't feel that way. So I would not truly regard them as proper, deserving friends.

I'm pretty sure the hypothetical friend would feel the same way about you.

I can't really see why it's a bad thing to do. You buy a friggin service. I know I would be damn glad if I got payed for making love to my woman (Single guy's won't get this joke). Also if I was single I would not mind if pretty ladies would pay me.

How many of you 'virgin kids' around here does not buy a woman a beer, in a fragile attempt to 'get it on'?

I can't really see why it's a bad thing to do. You buy a friggin service. I know I would be damn glad if I got payed for making love to my woman (Single guy's won't get this joke). Also if I was single I would not mind if pretty ladies would pay me.

How many of you 'virgin kids' around here does not buy a woman a beer, in a fragile attempt to 'get it on'?

[Snurx]

I dont think i will ever go see a prostitute, i am not that "dependant" or "addicted" to sex. If i really want sex, i am quite sure i could get it. But at this point in my life, i dont have the will to have a gf or sex. Its just too much going on around me, so i feel i would not have the dedication a gf would require, and i am not interested in "playing" or paying some poor girl, just for sex.

Also, there is moral objections, mostly the same as Jonny said.
And the fact that the pimps get the money, not the girl. If it was a better world, were the girls were not forced into prostitution (i have hear of prostitutes that are prostitutes willingly, but never encountered one) then maybe I would go see one. But then again, if nobody was forced to it, there migth not be prostitution.

[Matrim]

Originally posted by W

Come on. You can't be this stupid, to think that all prostitutes do it to finance a drug habit! Anyway, when you buy your groceries or order a plumber, are you as critical of what the money is used for after it leaves your hands? Or is this merely an excuse, rationalization that only apply to sex?

Since it slipped you by, my little '(in most cases)' was meant to indicate that I was in this example referring to the ladies you see roaming the streets, peering into the window of your company chairman's BMW. What I was concerned about was the dignity of the prostitutes, not what the money was spent on. Scenaro following, to make you understand my point easier:
"Female person (for various reasons) does drugs at 14, veteran addict at 16. Needs money to get drugs. Selling her body = money fast. My friend, knowing very well her situation, since it is hard to hide the fact that you're a wasted junkie, doesn't mind taking advantage of that situation to get sex."
Comparing that to a plumber is idiotic. Fair enough, your plumber, yet I doubt that most plumbers do, might use his money to finance his TNT arsenal which he will use to kill you later on. He might very well be addicted to buying explosives, yet the point remains that you will have no way of telling what he will use his money for. With the junkie, you naturally will. That's the major difference.

As do anyone which calls tech support, or pays housecleaners etc. We all work just to get money we othervise don't have. This is no different when it comes to prostitution than in any other line of buisness.

Congratulation in simplifying the matter so that your argument loses it relevance. You do this by calling prostitution 'business'. What if I say that being a hitman also is a business. He just works to get money he doesn't have, just like you.
Buying sex in our country is illegal, and so is killing people. This pushing things to extremes is utter pointless.

Are you sure it would be your friend that separates individuals into classes, and not yourself? Perhaps your friend looks highly upon the prostitute, which meets a need few others are willing to supply. You're the one who assume all prostitutes are junkies with no other choice than prostitution or other crime.

I never said that I assume that all prostitutes are junkies. You are starting to conjure up your own facts, that's a bad trait in a discussion.
Faced with the situation where my friend 'looks highly upon the prostitute', I suspect that you are very much chewing the rag. I don't know a better English term for 'kverulere', but in our christian/post-christian society with our inherited and slow-dying morals, I doubt that I will find many friends who think this way, and hence I cannot think that you are doing anything but 'kverulere'. You can say that this might be the situation in the far future, but what is the sense of bringing that up when I clearly consider the world today?

There are other reasons for giung to a prostitute. Perhaps you don't want a relationship. Perhaps you think it's more honest than paying a girl with drinks for a one night stand.

Okay, first; you don't want a relationship. Then you have the prospects, not just one: girl wants to have sex without relationship (often the already mentioned one night stands), or paying for sex, as you assumed. Well then, if you simply cannot possibly attract sexual partners, and pay for sex, my main point remains: Are you willing to take advantage of a miserable person's situation? (Fair enough, if the prostitute simply loves selling herself, then that is fine. I am however not convinced that many do so.)

Second, paying a girl for a one night stand. Here you assume that the girl doesn't want to have the one night stand, she must be 'bought with drinks'. That's a bit sad I think, since I don't think men are the only who enjoy one night stands. The situation with one night stands is more a game between the two (or more) involved. It's only cynicism that makes it 'just another way of paying for sex'.



Matrim

[W]

Originally posted by Matrim


Since it slipped you by, my little '(in most cases)' was meant to indicate that I was in this example referring to the ladies you see roaming the streets, peering into the window of your company chairman's BMW. What I was concerned about was the dignity of the prostitutes, not what the money was spent on. Scenaro following, to make you understand my point easier:
"Female person (for various reasons) does drugs at 14, veteran addict at 16. Needs money to get drugs. Selling her body = money fast. My friend, knowing very well her situation, since it is hard to hide the fact that you're a wasted junkie, doesn't mind taking advantage of that situation to get sex."

Which wasn't what you asked in the first post. Yes, in this situation I would look down upon my friend. First off, if you're exploiting junkie whores, I do not expect you to pay at all. Second, picking someone so easy to rip off as a junkie whore is a bit cheap, so is doing it simply for sex. If my friend wants to rip someone off, I can point him in the direction of stupid people with lots of money instead.

Comparing that to a plumber is idiotic. Fair enough, your plumber, yet I doubt that most plumbers do, might use his money to finance his TNT arsenal which he will use to kill you later on. He might very well be addicted to buying explosives, yet the point remains that you will have no way of telling what he will use his money for. With the junkie, you naturally will. That's the major difference.

Assuming we're talking someone who's an obvious drug user. Most prostitutes actually aren't obvious drug users, it kinda hurt their ability to attract buisness.

Congratulation in simplifying the matter so that your argument loses it relevance. You do this by calling prostitution 'business'. What if I say that being a hitman also is a business. He just works to get money he doesn't have, just like you.
Buying sex in our country is illegal, and so is killing people. This pushing things to extremes is utter pointless.

No, this is perfectly reasonable. I do not support hitmen (or people who order hitmens) simply because I do not like people killing eachother. I likewise support prostitution, because I like people having sex. The argument on legality only holds in a country where it is infact illegal (and you can be sure that it's illegal here simply as a result of moral fashion from the rest of the world). Anyway, arguments on legality has no place in a debate on ethics. The law can be as unethical as the criminal.

I never said that I assume that all prostitutes are junkies. You are starting to conjure up your own facts, that's a bad trait in a discussion.

Yes you did, by first talking about all prostitutes, then making arguments based on drug use.

Faced with the situation where my friend 'looks highly upon the prostitute', I suspect that you are very much chewing the rag. I don't know a better English term for 'kverulere', but in our christian/post-christian society with our inherited and slow-dying morals, I doubt that I will find many friends who think this way, and hence I cannot think that you are doing anything but 'kverulere'. You can say that this might be the situation in the far future, but what is the sense of bringing that up when I clearly consider the world today?

Welcome to arguing on the internet.

If you can't deal with my arguments, don't argue with me. Don't say I wrangle, or that my arguments are contrarian, they are so only when we disagree. I have not mentioned the far future.

Also, here again you drag in new facts as if they were implicit. Why would your friend have to have a mean egoistic attitude to prostitution? My friends wouldn't, and your first post did ask about my friends, did it not?

Okay, first; you don't want a relationship. Then you have the prospects, not just one: girl wants to have sex without relationship (often the already mentioned one night stands), or paying for sex, as you assumed.

Perhaps you do not want to take any more trouble to get sex than to simply pay for it. There are few people on the streets looking for random partners to have sex with for free.

Well then, if you simply cannot possibly attract sexual partners, and pay for sex, my main point remains: Are you willing to take advantage of a miserable person's situation? (Fair enough, if the prostitute simply loves selling herself, then that is fine. I am however not convinced that many do so.)

And I am convinced your ideas about prostitution is not only void of any experience of it on your part, but also void of any rational thinking. I do not simply love answering stupid peoples questions on the phone. I am however willing to do it for money, no matter my motivation for getting money in the first place. Just like the prostitute.

Second, paying a girl for a one night stand. Here you assume that the girl doesn't want to have the one night stand, she must be 'bought with drinks'. That's a bit sad I think, since I don't think men are the only who enjoy one night stands. The situation with one night stands is more a game between the two (or more) involved. It's only cynicism that makes it 'just another way of paying for sex'.

You, who thinks "I think it's ok to pay for sex" means "it's ok to look for drug-hungry 16 year olds and give them the money they need only if they have sex with you", consider my outlook cynical? Yes, I'm sure there are women who go out simply for the casual sex. But they're far outnumbered by the men wanting casual sex, and I'm quite sure that the majority of one night stands are not considered as such by the women until they wake up and the man is gone. I would think alot more of the friend which goes to a prostitute over the one who goes out, gets a girl drunk, have sex with her, then leaves before she wakes up the following morning.


To sum it up, I wouldn't mind a friend paying for sex, unless he knows the prostitute has no other legal way to get money and intentionally takes advantage of it.

[Matrim]

Originally posted by Ste

On a seperate note - Would you look down on friends for going to a strip club? or watching a porn film?

These are points that worry me, because they make me think of some of my probably many double set of morals.

I say "It's bad to take advantage of a prostitute who hates having sex with you, and who does it because of utter necessity".

And then I can still watch porn without giving a second thought about the well-being of the porn actors? Saying "Well, it's more difficult to see if the porn actor is doing this against her will" doesn't help at all.

It's despicable actually.




Matrim

[W]

Originally posted by Matrim
These are points that worry me, because they make me think of some of my probably many double set of morals.

I say "It's bad to take advantage of a prostitute who hates having sex with you, and who does it because of utter necessity".

And then I can still watch porn without giving a second thought about the well-being of the porn actors? Saying "Well, it's more difficult to see if the porn actor is doing this against her will" doesn't help at all.

It's despicable actually.

Matrim

You have to stop taking responsibility for other people, or at a minimum let other people do so.

Also, did you know that you can actually feel for other people, and help other people, without having any morality binding you to? I despise people who invent some objective morals simply to force themselfs to do what they think others consider good. I value human death negatively. This does not mean that I think killing humans is wrong. It means I do not want to kill humans, and that I do not want others to kill humans.

I prefer a honest killer to a hypocritical do-gooder. If you need morals to restrain yourself, you're seriously ****ed up.

[Matrim]

Originally posted by W
[b]
No, this is perfectly reasonable. I do not support hitmen (or people who order hitmens) simply because I do not like people killing eachother. I likewise support prostitution, because I like people having sex. The argument on legality only holds in a country where it is infact illegal (and you can be sure that it's illegal here simply as a result of moral fashion from the rest of the world). Anyway, arguments on legality has no place in a debate on ethics. The law can be as unethical as the criminal.

Granted that legality isn't an argument when talking ethics, your comparison is nonetheless too shallow. You'd have to dig further in and ask: "What is prostitution? Is it just 'people having sex'?" I think it's much more than that. If it were just two adults having sex, and then (or perhaps up early) one pays money to the other, this would hardly be a controversial issue. But as I've said before, that is making it all too easy.

And I am convinced your ideas about prostitution is not only void of any experience of it on your part, but also void of any rational thinking. I do not simply love answering stupid peoples questions on the phone. I am however willing to do it for money, no matter my motivation for getting money in the first place. Just like the prostitute.

And I don't think it's rational of you to compare yourself to a prostitute. (Although sometimes answering stuipid people's question on the phone is called phonesex, heh.) Admitting that I haven't seen a statistic, and stressing that I don't think I need one, I would think that answering stupid people's question on the phone (in the way that you do it) has a lot less negative influence on your life than selling your body has. (Don't make jokes here).

I've read an article about a woman who worked as a prostitute a while ago. (Not the reason I started this thread by the way). She was not doing drugs, had an appartment and a boyfriend. Men would call her, she would filter out the ones who sounded like trouble, and they would come to her and have sex. This could sound a bit like the ideal prostitute you are mentioning, since she saw sex as work and didn't really feel abused. Well, despite not doing drugs she'd had the job pushed on her while quite young. This had left her slightly traumatized, and she certainly couldn't lead a 'normal sex life'. Another problem with the job was the occasional man who was trouble.
So why stay in the job? She only said it was difficult to quit. We can only guess why. We can be cynical and say it's because of the good money.

Yes, I'm sure there are women who go out simply for the casual sex. But they're far outnumbered by the men wanting casual sex, and I'm quite sure that the majority of one night stands are not considered as such by the women until they wake up and the man is gone.

To be honest, I've never had a 'go out, get girl drunk one night stand'. And I don't mean to be cruel, but I don't think that you've had one either. So guessing's all there is too it (though some guesses are better than others.) What I do think though is that girls don't have to be tricked into having sex as often as you seem to think. Drink can make both sexes more susceptible to the idea, and the man might be a bit more eager, no doubt. Though haven't you heard that the chase is better than the catch? With prostitutes there is no chase. This could be wery well for bad hunters though.

I would think alot more of the friend which goes to a prostitute over the one who goes out, gets a girl drunk, have sex with her, then leaves before she wakes up the following morning.

So would I. If: prostitute thinks about her work just as a secretary would think of hers, and if the girl afterwards felt as if she'd been more or less raped or tricked into having sex.



Matrim

[Matrim]

Originally posted by W

I prefer a honest killer to a hypocritical do-gooder. If you need morals to restrain yourself, you're seriously ****ed up.

Even though I've never felt as if I'm building morals around myself and forcing myself to follow them, I none the less look upon myself as a person formed by the morals existing in this society.

Of course when you ask me if I think that killing people is bad, I say yes not because it says so in some fat book of laws, or (where you might be thinking when you talk about needing morals to restrain oneself) some letters in a book called the bible.

I have a more utilitarian way of thinking in that case. Death of a person = often suffering to a lot of people. And, I think, if it had happened to someone I care about, I know that I would have suffered. This makes me dislike killing.


Matrim

Originally posted by Matrim

I say "It's bad to take advantage of a prostitute who hates having sex with you, and who does it because of utter necessity".

is it bad to hire a janitor who hates his job (and i think i can say quite a lot are not enamored with their jobs) yet does it out of utter necessity?

your arguement seems to lie in that it is worse to exploit people for sex rather than other services rendered.

[W]

So, what's you're basically saying is, what's wrong with prostitution is morals. Without any morals, on the side of the prostitute, she wouldn't have any problems. And I agree with that. That's exactly how it is, and why, if it's true as you suppose, that a majority of prostitutes today have some pressing need for money. Because most people think it's "wrong", not because it in any way does you harm other than being against what you consider moral and proper.

It's amongst criminals and societies outcasts that you find the most rational values. Because they don't accept the norm, they think for themself.

Originally posted by Matrim
Even though I've never felt as if I'm building morals around myself and forcing myself to follow them, I none the less look upon myself as a person formed by the morals existing in this society.

Of course when you ask me if I think that killing people is bad, I say yes not because it says so in some fat book of laws, or (where you might be thinking when you talk about needing morals to restrain oneself) some letters in a book called the bible.

I have a more utilitarian way of thinking in that case. Death of a person = often suffering to a lot of people. And, I think, if it had happened to someone I care about, I know that I would have suffered. This makes me dislike killing.


Matrim

I don't really care what rationalization you're using. To me, it will always be rationalization. Personally, I'd rather take responsibility for myself.

Originally posted by Justin
is it bad to hire a janitor who hates his job (and i think i can say quite a lot are not enamored with their jobs) yet does it out of utter necessity?

your arguement seems to lie in that it is worse to exploit people for sex rather than other services rendered.

It's a "the body is sacred" kinda thing.