[Discuss] Interesting Suggestions for the production page!

[x-dANGEr]

Now guys i have two suggestions for the production page which will make it a little harder to produce ships and a ittle sweeter:

1)First:
A little suggestion for the percent of money yuo get back when canceling an order, if you try to think aboutit in reason, it will come up like this, some of the resources are wasted when canceling an order, ok, now let's say it is in a real life PA, your rules gives an order to build some ships, after a while(same tick), he cancels his order, why would he lose 75% while the job is yet to be started, let's say he cancels the order after a day(1 tick), some of the resources will be wasted indeed, let's say he canceled his order after 2 days(2 ticks), this way more resources will be wasted, so we get from this idea, that every passing tick, the wasted resources are increased, not as it is now, 75% of the money is payed pack no matter when you canceled the order, my suggestion is so simple, just mkae it like every ticks passes on the order, the wasted resources are increased, so the returned percent is decreased, this can be calculated in a simple way, 100%/the duration of production, let's say the duration is 5 ticks, it will be like 100%/5=20% is lose when every tick passes on the order(that is of course if you want to cancel the oder).

Second:
Let's say the first suggestion is approaved, now i will talk about the factories thing and all of this, in a very quick start, i would like to say it in simple: you can have as orders as you want in a condition of every factory=an order from the type that factory produces, i will get it a little bit cleared, as it is known now, there is no use for more than one factory at the planet excep to have a reserve one, well in this idea we can add something which is useful in my opinion, we mkae the production page a like as the missions one, but in a different way, instead of fleets listed, their wil be factories, every factory has it own ability of making ships, ligt factories can't make anything heavier than corvettes, so we put the light factories all in the same panel, like in the missions page there is the name of the fleet, well, here will be the kind of it adn the number of it on your planet, in taht panel will also be the ships that factory can produce, so if you want to order light ships, you just do that at the light factories panel, the number of factories will decide the number of orders you can do from the light ships devision in the same time, e.i. if you have 1 light factory, you can't have more than 1 order of light ships in the same time, and so on, and when it comes to cancelling orders, it will be like said above, you cancel the order from the factory panel, too, or if you want, we can have it at the end of the page as it is now, as it will not be used often as i think, so what do you think every1, plz. post your opinons on every suggestoin seperated.

[arbondigo]

First, if you cancel your order before the tick that you put in the order then i think you should get your resources back. If you don't then you should lose whatever it's set at at the moment. No refunds based on how many ticks have passed. As you want to liken it to real life, if they start something they won't say "well we're half done, we'll give you half your money back" as you've inconvenienced them and might not be able to find another job to get the money.

Second, did not understand any of that as i got a headache due a lack of full stops.

[MAdnRisKy]

so are you saying that 1 factory = n ammount of ships but only 1 type for that tick

(so a xan with 1 light factory can order as many pulsars as he likes that tick, but can't also order say vsh or arrows)

or are you saying that 1 factory = x amount of ships irrespective of type.

either are valid I;m just wondering which you're saying.

the first is interesting I'd never thought of it, the second is also interesting, but may end up causing a problem like that of research for mining roids, only more so if you wanted to spend stockpiles all at once (like after you took a shafting)

[Cochese]

I quite like the refund idea, makes sense.

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by arbondigo

No refunds based on how many ticks have passed. As you want to liken it to real life, if they start something they won't say "well we're half done, we'll give you half your money back" as you've inconvenienced them and might not be able to find another job to get the money.

I guess you are the ruler of your planet, aren't you, how will your poor workers dare to say that, Btw: there is no money, it is just resources to build the ship, so they refund minus cuz there are some wasted, it depends on how much is wasted, if just 10% is wasted, then you should have 90%.

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

so are you saying that 1 factory = n ammount of ships but only 1 type for that tick

(so a xan with 1 light factory can order as many pulsars as he likes that tick, but can't also order say vsh or arrows)

or are you saying that 1 factory = x amount of ships irrespective of type.

either are valid I;m just wondering which you're saying.

the first is interesting I'd never thought of it, the second is also interesting, but may end up causing a problem like that of research for mining roids, only more so if you wanted to spend stockpiles all at once (like after you took a shafting)

Yes, i meant the first one,but with a little edit, if you haev 1 light factory, you can't order more than 1 type, and you can't have more than 1 pending order from the light ships, all of them, if you want you can order soem heavy ships from the ehavy factories with the same condition, the SAME kind, this will give way more importance for factories, so the problem os amps/dis will be almost solved, another example for more clearing:
You have 2 light factories, this means you can order both kinds of Fighter(s) or Corvette(s), you can order how many you want, well, considre it a real factory with no ability except to make 1 order at a time, can you order some cars while the previous order isn't finsihed yet, NO, in example, you can order with 2 light factories at the SAME tick with DIFFERENT orders a 'non-limited number of ships' from pulsars with a 'non-limited number of ships' of arrowheads, they will be written as seperated orders, you can't order any light ships, until these orders are finsihed, cuz you only have 2 light factories.
You can forget about the panels thing, as it is a visual thing, nothing more...

[Hellcat]

Sounds interesting.. I think he means that if you set your factory building pulsars - they have all the machines setup to cut out and weld pulsar parts. so you can't at a whim start building daggers or sentinals.

Dunno if you should have to finish building all pulsars before you can start something else, or if you can start something else the next tick. But never start 2 types on the same tick.

Its a bit like having engineering setup on your factories. only its more short term (down to 4 ticks rather than 48) and you can get around it by having more than 1 factory.

Another thing that confuses me is that you can build 1 pulsar or 10,000 pulsars in the same time - with the same number of factories. Maybe have build limits for types of ship based on how many your producing. Just seems daft that 1 factory can supply the same number of ships no matter how many you order!

e.g.

1 light factory = 500 ships per order - 2 factories 1000 ships per order.

Just spurting ideas. So dont flame.

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Sounds interesting.. I think he means that if you set your factory building pulsars - they have all the machines setup to cut out and weld pulsar parts. so you can't at a whim start building daggers or sentinals.

Until now you are right! Unless you have 2 light factories, you can order one to make pulsars and the other to make Vassaraks.

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Dunno if you should have to finish building all pulsars before you can start something else, or if you can start something else the next tick. But never start 2 types on the same tick.

Yes, you need to finsih all the pulsars before you can start building something else.

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Another thing that confuses me is that you can build 1 pulsar or 10,000 pulsars in the same time - with the same number of factories. Maybe have build limits for types of ship based on how many your producing. Just seems daft that 1 factory can supply the same number of ships no matter how many you order!

Well, cheer up, i've come up with sth. to work this thing out, we can put to every factory a certain number of 'Building Points' and every ship the same, so it will be like this, if we say the light factory has 'Building Points' of 1000 and pulsars have a 'Building Point(s)' of 1/2, so you can produce 2000 pulsars with that factory, of course we may increase the number of building points for heavier factories as their ships will have more building points, so what do you think now???

[arbondigo]

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Well, cheer up, i've come up with sth. to work this thing out, we can put to every factory a certain number of 'Building Points' and every ship the same, so it will be like this, if we say the light factory has 'Building Points' of 1000 and pulsars have a 'Building Point(s)' of 1/2, so you can produce 2000 pulsars with that factory, of course we may increase the number of building points for heavier factories as their ships will have more building points, so what do you think now???

SO when we've finished with building 2000 pulsars we have to build another factory to build anymore?

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by arbondigo

SO when we've finished with building 2000 pulsars we have to build another factory to build anymore?

No, you just order another certain amount of ships from the same kind, but the sum of their building points should not exceed 1000. So, approved or Declined>???

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Cochese

I quite like the refund idea, makes sense.

Just a shame his logic is a bit flawed if hes trying to make it more realistic like it seems.

In the real world even before you start production you have an outlay, normally things like design fees and a deposit so if you cancel something mid way they dont end up completly out of pocket. As such its completly resonable imho that you will lose some of the money even if it hasnt ticked.

As for the idea of losing more each tick, I guess that does make some kind of sense if you decide that you pay for the ships materials and work as its done rather than all upfront. Howveer i do believe if this happens THEN it should be the case that when ordering ships you only pay the deposit initially, then every tick until complition you pay that ticks installment. If you cant afford it the ships would get delayed a tick (and maybe you should be hit by a smallish penalty for poor planning)

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by Wakey

In the real world even before you start production you have an outlay, normally things like design fees and a deposit so if you cancel something mid way they dont end up completly out of pocket. As such its completly resonable imho that you will lose some of the money even if it hasnt ticked.

Well, i think there are no design fees in making ships, it is just like making tanks in real life, Tanks which have already knows designs, engines and everything else.

Originally Posted by Wakey

As for the idea of losing more each tick, I guess that does make some kind of sense if you decide that you pay for the ships materials and work as its done rather than all upfront. Howveer i do believe if this happens THEN it should be the case that when ordering ships you only pay the deposit initially, then every tick until complition you pay that ticks installment. If you cant afford it the ships would get delayed a tick (and maybe you should be hit by a smallish penalty for poor planning)

Well, it won't mkae that difference, but if you want it can be this way :P .

[x-dANGEr]

Now, how will this be decided???

[Kal]

i think both of the original ideas are interesting, though it would require some rebalencing of the races

[x-dANGEr]

What do you mean???

[Kal]

if the production system were changed then the race produciton bonuses might need adjusting

[x-dANGEr]

So how are you going to decide if it is accepted or not, you will try to balance it and if it didn't work you won't accept!!!

[Kal]

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

So how are you going to decide if it is accepted or not, you will try to balance it and if it didn't work you won't accept!!!

i'm not for a longe time i'm afraid - working backwards starting with the older threads.

[Eol]

I quite like the original #1 suggestion. But if that can't be done, at *least* do this:

Originally Posted by arbondigo

First, if you cancel your order before the tick that you put in the order then i think you should get your resources back. If you don't then you should lose whatever it's set at at the moment. No refunds based on how many ticks have passed. As you want to liken it to real life, if they start something they won't say "well we're half done, we'll give you half your money back" as you've inconvenienced them and might not be able to find another job to get the money.

Second, did not understand any of that as i got a headache due a lack of full stops.

And get a checkbox by "cancel order". I just cancelled an order by mistake and lost 20% resources. It's kinda like the "Recall Fleet" bit.