Wake Up Spinner

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Illogical
Ok guys, this is getting pretty personal towards spinner now. Come on seriously how many of you would have stuck for 3 years making a loss....The amount of bandwidth pa used from r2 onwards was huge, and banners make like 0 money. They had to get new servers, adapt to the player base, do support etc. And none of that is free. I honestly believe Spinner is telling the truth about the finances, i mean come on its his game, wouldnt you want to save your own project as apposed to see it die?. And all we have on these forums is constant moaning about how things arent done your way...Think about it what have you given back to PA? are you doing anything to help them? Are you giving support in #cservice or #support or any other channel. Well most of you arent and yet you still complain.

Ok if you have sensible ideas, THAT ARE JUSTIFIED! why dont you email Spinner them. Emails containing "Change price" just because you dont want to pay for people that have worked hard on the game is a bit unfair. If the game costs less money, the developers get less money, eg they wont make any more games. ITs the same with software piracy. But if you can write an idea that is definately going to be a benefit for PA without costing loads of money why dont you do something useful and email it to Spinner?

You cant just moan about it here, you need to do something to help back.

(Sorry for my rant, im just really annoyed at people that all they do is complain)

If I was stuck 3 years making a loss I'd have got wise to it and got a real job, don't go expecting us to feel sorry for Spinner for his inability to make money. No one forces him to run Planetarion full time in fact 95% of other browser based games are run in people's spare time. You cannot hold us responsible for his lifestyle choices.

I've often wondered how much bandwidth Planetarion uses especially now, I also wonder how if banner ads make next to nothing most other browser based games with bigger player bases than Planetarion continue to run and some even run at a profit by people who have other sources of income as well.

What have people given back to Planetarion ? Subscription fees perhaps ? When I go to the cinema I pay them money for a service I enjoy I don't expect to be asked to help out on the box office for free before my film starts. If the service I get at the cinema is rubbish I expect the right to complain, as I'm a paying customer, I expect the same for Planetarion.

You obviously have very little understanding of how a business runs. Consumers think rationally and Planetarion is a normal good, if the price rises then less people will play the game, there is a on the profit curve where continuing to raise the price actually causes less profit as less people are playing, Planetarion is past this point. If the price fell or some kind of incentive system was implemented profits would probably go up.

As W says your bankrupt sob story is 3 years old the fact people still think that's an excuse for a frankly sloppy game is remarkable.

[CrashTester]

Just wanted to add a few comments to the discussion relating to the waythings were run;

I have always failed to see why PA basically started from scratch again with each new round. It seemed pure madness to me.

It would be far better and less damaging if they had for example, earlier rounds of PA running for free. This would retain the userbase with which to try a sell their main product, in this case the all new PAX.

How many times has there been delay after delay in between rounds while they are tweaking or testing stuff? In the meantime it prompts people to find an alternative. If PA had a free alternative they wouldnt lose as many players to the competition.

I also fail to see how charging for each new round is beneficial to their cause. I personally would like to see an annual fee that entitles you to to play all rounds started for that year but your account expires on the annual due date. May people are students and have exams at specific times and so cannot dedicate enough time to PA so they will probably choose to leave rather than pay to play. If they had an annual account it wouldnt matter so much as they could just pick it up when they get more time and wait for the new round to begin. It all helps retain the user base.

And with an annual account, imagine how a player would feel if their account was to expire in the middle of a round that had turned out to be an exciting and prosperous one for them? It would make them think twice about not renewing their account and once they have paid it give the creators a better ide of how many will be playing and for what period, then they can devote resources to new features accordingly.

[wakey]

The problem with threads like this asking for the "community to be listened to" is in fact who this 'community' your refering to is. Most of you arent asking for the views of the smaller players in the smaller alliance to be listened to but the average forum user who generally falls in the catogory of "Big alliance player, probally refered to as hardcore".

These peoples opinions while just as valid as everyone elses arent neccesaryly correct. They are talking from their own experiances and generally looking at ways to make the game better for them and their alliance. The alliance senate which was refered to earlier is the perfect example of this. Here were a group of the top alliances looking to use their power to get certain ideas, which the smaller players were welcoming, because it made them weaker. The complaints werent about making the game better for all but to allow them to keep their stranglehold on the game that was driving out the smaller players in droves.

Now with PAX I actually think spinner and co did listen to what the community was saying. Those outside the elite groups have been complaining for ages that the balance of the game has been moving towards the elite groups more and more. Now your probally say "These elite groups spend the most time playing and know more about the game than anyone else" which seems to be the crap excuse you always coem out with on such threads but that really is very naive. Just because you choose to not be in a top alliance for whatever reason doesnt mean you spend any less time or are any less knowledgable about the game. PAX has attempted to redress the balance and while its not ideal it has made the game more playable for the smaller guys. What you all seem to forget is PA's elite groups were always just a minority in this game and while you may think alot of these people have left the numbers of none elite people leaving is significantly higher. PA and the elite groups inside it need these smaller people to survive and without them the game starts to collapse. Its like taking the Zebras out of an africain eco system, the big cat numbers would drop until there was none left.

As someone else said its just a shame Jolt set the price so high. This really scared alot of those who the changes were designed for off. They didnt want to spend £10 on a game they assumed would see them struggle and be bashed and a shame the advertising campaign was basically a joke as this game is one that would have kept the smaller players around much better and in turn i'm sure the rest of you would have been alot happier as the game would have been a little differnt with more people in it.

And finnally on this whole "the games too simple" complaint that i keep seeing, are you really sure thats the case and your not just letting the newbie friendlyness nature of PAX cloud your judgement. If we start with ship stats yes they do appear to have been made simplier but from my attacks so far this round I have to say that the stats we have been given appear to be just rough guides. The hardcore players can still delve deeper by studying their battle results to get a better idea of the ships (yes the reduced number of ships perhaps make things a bit simplier but if PA does get past this round i'm sure the numbers will increase just like they did with old PA) As for attacking theres certainly now alot more to think about it than before. To me how compliacted PAX is seems to depend on how much time you wish to put in, you can play it at a basic level without delving deeping into the game or you can spend time working out what what your ships are good and what they are bad at and can start messinga round with differnt tactic and fleet cominations and its alot more complicated

[W]

Originally posted by wakey

I can't believe you still don't understand what it means to be a true gamer.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by W
I can't believe you still don't understand what it means to be a true gamer.

Prey tell your definition of a "True Gamer" ?


As confident as you may be in beliving you know what qualifies your difinition of a True Gamer, Im sure half of this commuinty would disagree with it. Such is the way when attempting to understand the masses and make decisions for them. It simply cant be done 100%.

The reason I put this twist on what you say W is perhaps in the vain hope that NOT JUST you may understand the problematic decisions Spinner has been put under. Simply put, "every action has a reaction" you do somthing for the hardcore, it hinders and upsets the newbies games and visa versa.

I have tried numerious times to stop myself from posting in this thread, but the comments from some of the habitual moaners & complainers in this thread are very close to personal insults directed at Spinner. If you wish to insult people who have given so much to this community, most of which you will never know off, for doing what you beleive is a bad job off creating PAX, then you go away, design your own game, code it, work 18hrs days for next to nothing, deal with the stress of it, destroyed marragers and financial ruin. THEN build up a gaming community around it and do it for free or try and make money from it, whatever!!! your call!! THEN and ONLY then should you come on here and say "I can do it better than you or I know better than you" to Spinner.

I certainly am not saying that PAX is perfect and mistakes as everyone including Spinner will agree have been made in prep of PAX. But...Jesus guys!! Stand back, look at the big picture and understand it before blabbing you mouths off in a hateful & spitful way that some of the previous posters have done the past few days. I seriously wouldnt be surprised if the next post from Spinner was his resignation, then Jolt saying Planetarion will never be seen or availble again, thankyou for your custom. Goodbye.

[Som1]

this is ridiculous...

Spinner is disapointed because the game didnt 'took back'?

What has he even try to do it? left round 9 and 9.5 to ****(and charged in round 9)... r9.5 was total crap, lasted what, 3 months? and was a complete disaster politically... then he cries and whines that no player came back....loloololol

well im sure the magic solution was renaming Planetarion to Planetarion II to the uber new ****ty Planetarion and repeating an hundred of time it was a completely new game LOL and charging nearly twice as much every new round?? haha.

Round 1,2,3 and 4 have been long gone

and it's sad because I doubt Spinner or any of the other creators will ever manage to create something such as planetarion once more... close this **** and go find a job if you want to feed your family next year.

[wakey]

Originally posted by W
I can't believe you still don't understand what it means to be a true gamer.

What a suprise, a post from Mr "I Know everything" appearing to attack what I posted. At times you really do come over a spoilt little kid whos had his sweets taken away.

Now I'm taking a guess here (I'm not a mind reader after all and seeing as you have an inability to use the quote function correctly I can only guess) that from your true gamer comment the part you have a problem with is the fact I suggested that the hardcore players (or True gamers if you perfer) are not the only factor of this game. If you really believe that the game should be setup in such a way that it favours these players then your more stupid than the majority of you posts make you sound. Without the smaller alliances and players the game simply cant substain the large number of players that make up the big alliances. Every big bashing these alliances gives to a smaller player pretty much means one less player in the game. This then means less ships for defence of smaller alliances making the chances of the next bashing being fatal to increase.

If the big alliances are to survive then quite simply the small players need protected so that they dont quit because without them the big alliances and their members dont have the targets.
Ofc a game where its basiclaly just the elite players and alliances could be what you lot want, after all the impression ive got from some of you as during my time as mod is that you want an elitist game consisting of the small number of elite players and no 'noobs' in sight to buy or annoy you

[W]

Originally posted by Zeus
Prey tell your definition of a "True Gamer" ?

It's hardly something that can be put in a few words, I've posted 500+ word posts trying to explain it many times and not been able to communicate the essence of it. This part is easy tho. A true gamer is NOT someone who wants to win easilly, or to hoard for 3 months, or in any way tip the game in his favour.

As confident as you may be in beliving you know what qualifies your difinition of a True Gamer, Im sure half of this commuinty would disagree with it. Such is the way when attempting to understand the masses and make decisions for them. It simply cant be done 100%.

You can try. I've seen you and Spinner hearing all kinds of players out, but never did you listen, and certainly didn't try understanding.

The reason I put this twist on what you say W is perhaps in the vain hope that NOT JUST you may understand the problematic decisions Spinner has been put under. Simply put, "every action has a reaction" you do somthing for the hardcore, it hinders and upsets the newbies games and visa versa.

Bull****. I say it again, bull****. Pure lies. You haven't the first idea on how to go about designing gameplay, from the bottom up, and if you think othervise I dare you to prove, or even explain, in game theory terms or plain logic, why "doing something for the hardcore" would necesarilly "hinder the newbies".

the comments from some of the habitual moaners & complainers in this thread are very close to personal insults directed at Spinner.

Noone wants to insult. I atleast am only pointing and laughing. If someone takes offence, their problem.

Jesus guys!! Stand back, look at the big picture and understand it before blabbing you mouths off in a hateful & spitful way that some of the previous posters have done the past few days. I seriously wouldnt be surprised if the next post from Spinner was his resignation, then Jolt saying Planetarion will never be seen or availble again, thankyou for your custom. Goodbye.

No. Some people just don't know when to quit.

[W]

Originally posted by wakey
that from your true gamer comment the part you have a problem with is the fact I suggested that the hardcore players (or True gamers if you perfer) are not the only factor of this game. If you really believe that the game should be setup in such a way that it favours these players then your more stupid than the majority of you posts make you sound.

No! Nonononono! It's the fact that you think that way about top players! That they want the game to be molded to their playing style. They don't! They want a balanced game much more than your kind could ever imagine! You're just alienating alot of players with your "big players vs newbies" false dichotomy.

If the big alliances are to survive then quite simply the small players need protected so that they dont quit because without them the big alliances and their members dont have the targets.
Ofc a game where its basiclaly just the elite players and alliances could be what you lot want, after all the impression ive got from some of you as during my time as mod is that you want an elitist game consisting of the small number of elite players and no 'noobs' in sight to buy or annoy you

I can't believe after all this time you STILL think this way. Where did you pick up this belief? It has no basis in reality, I can assure you.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by W
Moan, Complaing, Bitching, Doing what "W" only knows

Funny aint it?

Originally posted by W
No. Some people just don't know when to quit.

You obviously want Spinner to quit. Him doing so would result in PA ending forever. Saying it wont end if he did quit, you would very much mistaken.
So why not just say the trurth, you wished Planetarion dead. As you said yourself in this thread, "I atleast am only pointing and laughing. If someone takes offence, their problem." Now I know your perception of being in your words a "True Gamer" is VERY much different from many peoples understanding of that term.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by wakey
Most of you arent asking for the views of the smaller players in the smaller alliance to be listened to but the average forum user who generally falls in the catogory of "Big alliance player, probally refered to as hardcore".

Excluding AD (obviously), I don't think that was really representative of the forum demographic, although it's more true now because the only players LEFT are big alliance players.

And I agree with W to some degree, a 'gamer' should be someone who plays for the game and not for the internet penis.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by W
Bull****. I say it again, bull****. Pure lies. You haven't the first idea on how to go about designing gameplay, from the bottom up, and if you think othervise I dare you to prove, or even explain, in game theory terms or plain logic, why "doing something for the hardcore" would necesarilly "hinder the newbies".

It does when you concentrate on activity levels as the difference, which is an oversimplistic view in my opinion.

[Lockhead]

Thanks Spinner, fudge, Zeus and all the others that helped to bring Planetarion up.


It was and still is a great game. I am beginning to like PaX a bit more every day.

"The world is hard."
It's hard to survive and to live.

PA has been a part of my life for the last 2 1/2 years and it was really worth it.

Keep fighting, Spinner & fudge. Dont give up what you've reached. Things will change and PaX might have to step down, with sh*t servers (like R4, hehe - give us back the BURP!) but the community wont die.
I've gotten some rl mates due to PA as many, many other players and so your effort was clearly worth it.

Thank you once again.

Johannes "Lockhead" Koch

[Lerxst]

So much disgusting insults from spoiled kids is really one of the most disillusioning experiences I ever seen here. Grow up!

Yes - this game is not perfect and there are some flaws (especially the lack of communication) but this is no reason to get this insulting and childish. They did a lot better work than 90% of all you moaners will ever do in your whole life. Now kindly stfu, develop some "brains" and look at the world beyond this little browser-game. Regarding PA, there is more than meets the eye...

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Lerxst
They did a lot better work than 90% of all you moaners will ever do in your whole life.

Well I doubt many of us are teetering on bankruptcy struggling to feed our families are we, I doubt many of us have thousands of people world wide thinking we're utterly useless at what we do and I doubt many of us are capable of screwing up on such a colossal scale. If that's how you measure achievement then Spinner must be your role model.

Also get a clue wakey game design has been skewed in favour of newbies since the Round 4 tweaks even though there are no more newbies to cater for, the fact you people still can't do well is your own problem.

W hit the nail on the head, your whole "big players want to mold the game to their way of playing" is utter rubbish it's the same crap you and your mates have been spouting for close to three years. If anything the hardcore of the game have always wanted a game that's a level playing field which rewards activity and skill for want of a better word. I still don’t see why you insist on trying the whole big planets vs small planets routine, it's outdated and it's pathetic.

[Ado]

I simply cannot believe the stuff I see in this thread, Ill try and structure this so as not to ramble.

1) Spinner Increasing the costs to "feed him family"

I have investigated the financial costs of a web based game MANY times, a few years ago I was on the verge of starting one with 2 friends, they got a job it fell apart. My point is i KNOW how much it costs and I cannot for the life of me work out where spinner has spent his money. Dont correctly hosting does not cost that much, you dont need an office, coding can be done from home. The issue is number of staff and management, 2 people could code PA, I KNOW i have seen the cod base of a PA style game and it not rocket science.

Adding to this spinners complete reluctance to consider "other" styles of payment, i.e the abandonment of the pay 10$ for 2 accounts style, where you could bring in someone who couldnt pay, same revenue, not THAT much more resources used and a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

2) Catering for "n00bs", you only think of the hardcore players

Frankly this is insane, PA is a browser based game, most "n00bs" a) are unwilling to pay and b) are only here for short term "fun". Making a profit has always been about catering to your core loyal customers while trying to find ways of bringing new customers WITHOUT removing your exisiting ones.

In addition to this a standard economic model cannot be applied to PA simply due to the fact that its NOT the game people pay for, the game isnt that good and isnt worth the money you charge. People pay for community involvement and so by removing paying customers you deminish the community and thus the value rewarded for being part of it, its a catch 22 situation.

The only way pa can survive is by LISTENING to what the core community (the hardcore players) want, reducing your staff numbers to the minimum, getting reliable cheap hosting (yes it does exist) and working from home with minimum overheads.

3) Stop Moaning & Complaining

This is BS, If you pay for a "term based" service in advance and dont get good service.. you complain. The fact that spinners customer facing skills are non existant isnt out problem. We have a right to complain he has a duty to listen and implement, if he doesnt his business dies.

4) To Zeus

Mate... you are the only one I respect (and fudge who I dont see much off) you were the face of the creators and someone who you could complain to or praise and you would feel nice for having done it. SPinner simply has NO communication skills, he TELLS the community what they get, he says he listens but doesnt act, he forgets, he runs betas which are a joke, doesnt fix simple bugsm has bad prioratisation and has a insesent need to cater to n00bs who have long since left and in the process alienates his core fans / paying customers.

SImply put he is a bafoon, HE is (as someone put) the constant factor in pa's declien and the reason for its death.. simple as that!

5) Clones

There are many clones now which are the final nail in PA's coffin, they are run by teams in their spare time, are as good or better than pa and are free. The creators actually listen and debate bugs / improvements with the community which is something I have NEVER seen spinner do. SPinner is right HIS pa is no longer economically viable.

Im going to be bold here, as hicks said, if spinner is struggeling that shut up shop LEAVE, go get a job, be sucessfull feed your family and allow PA to die and the community to move on to soemwhere deserving of their time and support.


(as a footnote please lets not have Leshy "im up spinners ass" make any posts or any of the PA team, because they are so biased in this mess its unfunny) I DO NOT CARE how hard he tries or his financial difficulties all I care about is a game which I have for 10 rounds paid for and has been in constant declien.

This aside Respect to Fudge / Zeus / Oreo / Spinner you guys do rock, and have put in enormous work to PA (even though my views on some of these are clear) failure != lack of effort.

[Razorback]

After reading this and actually keeping myself from posting i must say finally the point is reached where i have to support Ado and Hicks.
I think its kinda hillarious to value dedication and selfsacrify to make up mistakes. Zeus what you seem to forget alot of ppl around pa could say the same as you hold for spinner as merits.
Alot of dedicated players payed for friends, payed for their alliancenetworks, invested 18h aday for their alliance-friends-community and lost their jobs marriages or whatever else you can bring up.
Do you see any of them complaining about it ? No it was their choice and noone of them exspects a pat on the back for it like spinner does.

To make it simple, most improvement ideas are pretty old and pa failed to jump the development train-
There are games out there which are better, faster, cheaper and more catering their customers. In all those points spinner tried nothing to improve. He kept himself surrounded with ppl who had their heads deep in his ass and who praised him like the 2nd messias when ppl complained pax might need more changes.
You and i both know many original ppl like sid and others who had a look at PAX just left it since they felt that spinner did not listen to them. The whole beta i made myself posts about it which were actually constructive in the beta forums (yay for not beeing invited since i didnt stick my nose in someones ass and good to see there were like 100 beta testers who logged in once a day mostly notand tested nothing ) But guess what all of it was ignored and mostly not even understood or burried from the "yay spinner" fraction.
I do understand certain ppl want to change the game so it fits their needs so they can compete with only logging in once a day and a doing nothing for the community. Yes the prelaunch feature and alot of other changes just dry out the community. Noone needs to be online. The long researches and the lack of customers do their own part to the stagnation.
And now you come tell us spinner is dissappointed in US that his game didnt fire off ?
Dont hold us for a fool r9.5 was a totally useless farce and anyone believing in the 14k planets beeing actual customers who would play a total different game and even pay for it is a total idiot. Sorry to say it with an insult but imagine your cardealer would offer you a freedrive in a porsche and comes next to sell you an overly exspensive fiat cicucento which is in no way comparable with the porsche ? would you sign that deal if you were unexperienced and new in dealing cars ? certainly i wouldnt.

Ppl complaining that its always the "big alliances" beeing involved i would advise you to get a clue. Its those players who in many cases know the game best and know about bugs and ofc who dedicate most time in it. Atm i see alot of ppl argue like little children who spinner should listen to incase you havent noticed he should listen to all his customers and actual consider and think about our ideas. Thats how other games work (take blizzard who change the stats of warcraft3 according to the bnet experiences to cater theri customers).

The service is really the last straw which made me post.
No alliance would survive with the service spinner provides for his paying customers. Atleast in some cases (i have only had great experiences with spinner and the other creators apart form r5 so i cant complain here myself). Still the fact remains that in some cases the service is poor and the customer needs to be happy or atleast threatend with respect. Something pa lacks and other games dont. In dark galaxy i wrote an email to the dude codeing it and he changed stuff for me within an hour and DG had not much less players than pa.

Another point is the face of pa. After Zeus left the creators lost completely touch with the community. Zeus and Oreo and later kloopy and prince were always a connection for the commuintiy. Always replied to a lo m8 and always had time for a brief chat.
Nowadays with many less players there is no such connection. Spinner and Fudge hide in their palace surrounded by pa crew only visible once or twice a week. This wont solve the needs of the community. Where is your Customer Service guy ? or is that all outsourced to some poor sods who do it in their freetime and have no right to decide anything and in some cases have no clue about it ?

Pls Zeus i really respect you and the rest for what you brought the game and the community. But dont start pointing fingers cause in the end its all "spinners" fault- Since its his game and he made the calls in the early rounds and he had a good part in the calls with jolt and the betas.

[Sirad]

I Dont see anyone here whos made a piece of software anywheres remotely as successfull or famous as planetarion which brought so many people together.

I dont see anyone here whos actually looked into the financial books that the former creaters had kept.
So really your makeing alot of un founded arguements about a game which you all would appear to still be intersted in, So it would be my opinion that instead of your constant moaning that you would at least try with some constructive criticism instead of your comments like

Well I doubt many of us are teetering on bankruptcy struggling to feed our families are we, I doubt many of us have thousands of people world wide thinking we're utterly useless at what we do and I doubt many of us are capable of screwing up on such a colossal scale. If that's how you measure achievement then Spinner must be your role model.

So anyway I'm bored of this forum again and when you people think you can do better by all means code some software and put it to the test and see how successful you are.


I'll leave you with this

The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified, and misunderstood. That is part of the penalty for greatness, and every great man understands it; and understands, too, that it is no proof of greatness. The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure continously without resentment.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

[Ado]

Originally posted by sirad
I Dont see anyone here whos made a piece of software anywheres remotely as successfull or famous as planetarion which brought so many people together.

Correct you dont, because were players we dont claim to be developers, we pay for a service and expect a service, if ford manufactured a crap car, you wouldnt see people who bought it saying "well ford

I dont see anyone here whos actually looked into the financial books that the former creaters had kept.
So really your makeing alot of un founded arguements about a game which you all would appear to still be intersted in, So it would be my opinion that instead of your constant moaning that you would at least try with some constructive criticism instead of your comments like "they used to make nice cars" or "they work hard" or "they drive a lot of people everywhere", NO they get slated and nobody buys them.

I know its a crap comparison but the point is clear.

So anyway I'm bored of this forum again and when you people think you can do better by all means code some software and put it to the test and see how successful you are.

Yes many people are i.e www.********.net, they doing it in their spare time, im leaving to it so are many others, the creators dont have people constantly massaging their egos and they DONT ignore the players, so you stay here and watching this game die.

I'll leave you with this
The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified, and misunderstood. That is part of the penalty for greatness, and every great man understands it; and understands, too, that it is no proof of greatness. The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure continously without resentment.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

Nice quote, but completly unfounded, spinner did nothing remarkable, he created a average game which spawned a brilliant community a community I love and I hope will move over to a new game gradually (many already have). You iconify spinner like he is remarkable when on the face of it he is pretty unsucessfull at what he does.

I dont like saying this one bit but its true.

[KoeN]

Originally posted by GA-Thrawn
I only know of one webbased game which has been extremely succesful and has been growing ever since it was created in 1997. I don't know if I'm allowed to give the url of that game, so please correct me if I'm not. www.hattrick.org is a FREE game (soccermanager) and is reaching 200k players. The way they gain money is mainly through Hattrick supporters. People can decide to pay a few euro per month (not per season or whatsoever) and then they are official Hattrick supporter. Your gaming qualities won't improve by that, but you get some extra stuff for fun (press announcement, logo, guestbook, funstats, etcetc).

i think this could be a solution. i play 2 other games online who work in exactly the same way (OSM and nukezone) and they are very succesful aswell. why shoulnd't it work for pa?

[W]

Originally posted by sirad
I Dont see anyone here whos made a piece of software anywheres remotely as successfull or famous as planetarion which brought so many people together.

Well, lets see now, there's the games that PA ripped off which undoubtably got more fame; earth 2025 and utopia. Googles directory for browser based massive multiplayer strategy games gives a few more, runescape and stellar crisis for instance.

My personal favourites, both of which I consider better than PA, are starship exodus (now closed) and Dawn of Myth (free, and much more professional)

And the truth of the matter is that several former pa players have in fact gone and made their own games.

[-Blue Moon-]

[16:50] <sinnsyK> aah, well...I'm browsing the boards
[16:50] <tux> boards...
[16:50] <tux> i prefer planks
[16:50] * tux covers eye
[16:50] <sinnsyK> lol
[16:50] <tux> 'arrrrrr matey'
[16:50] <sinnsyK> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...hreadid=170353
[16:50] <tux> seee look ^^ pirate
[16:50] <sinnsyK> its interesting to see what some ppl can come up with
[16:51] <sinnsyK> sadly, I agree with both sides on this matter
[16:51] <tux> whats it talking about
[16:51] <tux> theres a lot of words there and my limit is 24
[16:54] <sinnsyK> limit?
[16:54] <tux> i cant read much more than 24words
[16:54] <tux> anything after that and i usually get bored
[16:54] <tux> and/or distracted by something shiny
[16:54] <sinnsyK> lol
[16:54] <sinnsyK> they are talking about how they game is about to die
[16:54] <sinnsyK> ranting, whining
[16:54] <tux> yeah it sucks
[16:55] <sinnsyK> praising
[16:55] <tux> ive exiled 14 times this round - thats about as much fun as ive had lol
[16:55] <sinnsyK> heh
[16:55] <tux> my alliance is way pissed off with me
[16:55] <tux> i think ill stay here for the rest of the r
[16:55] <tux> ..but yeah - this r sucks donkey balls
[16:56] <sinnsyK> yup

there's a conversation between 2 'normal' PA players (if there is such a thing).. there you have it.. this r sucks and it may be the end of PA.

/me opens his blinds and looks at that big yellow thing in the sky

tux

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by -Blue Moon-
/me opens his blinds and looks at that big yellow thing in the sky

You have Sumo bungee jumpers near you too, huh?

[Kuener]

Too me there are many good point in this thread made by Spinner and UN, but the problem I see is this:

You have this god awful spoiled brats who dont know when yo shut the F*ck UP, they feel like they matter, or that they are untouchable. Some are little basards sitting at home who cant make a friend and enjoy making other miserable or insulting them because thats all they know how to do.

Thanks Spinner and Co for great gaming years...

Thanks to people who have tried to make this game better for the overall community....

All you other brats remember that these people are REAL, and things you do in your live have consquences, they made this game to make other people happy, and in general, throughout the rounds since r1 they made more than a few people happy at one point or another...

Its just to bad, the whole internet economy crashed!!!

heh

Goodluck PA

[Lerxst]

Though I see that Hicks, Ado, Focht etc. have points and I partly agree, the level of personal insults towards Spinner is still disgusting. There is a BIG difference between the game "Planetarion" (complaining about the game, moaning about it blabla) and the person "Spinner" though the both are related.
And this difference remains, as a fact. No matter what you think about this game and the way it was managed. Period.

[evil one]

Originally posted by Lerxst
Though I see that Hicks, Ado, Focht etc. have points and I partly agree, the level of personal insults towards Spinner is still disgusting. There is a BIG difference between the game "Planetarion" (complaining about the game, moaning about it blabla) and the person "Spinner" though the both are related.
And this difference remains, as a fact. No matter what you think about this game and the way it was managed. Period.

100% agreed. I really can't understand why Spinner is still with PA despite all the crap he had to take from us players.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Lerxst
Though I see that Hicks, Ado, Focht etc. have points and I partly agree, the level of personal insults towards Spinner is still disgusting. There is a BIG difference between the game "Planetarion" (complaining about the game, moaning about it blabla) and the person "Spinner" though the both are related.
And this difference remains, as a fact. No matter what you think about this game and the way it was managed. Period.

Because PA is entirely controlled by Spinner (ignoring Jolt's influence, which, while substantial, is only recent), and hence any fault of not listening to the community, and so forth, is his and his alone.

[Ado]

Originally Posted by evil one

100% agreed. I really can't understand why Spinner is still with PA despite all the crap he had to take from us players.

And what about all the crap we have had to endure from spinner, does that suddenly vanish due to the fact he tries hard ? do we ignore the fact that we pay for the game ? all those who would say "just leave" dont understand at all, were here for friends not spinner and have to cope with all his crap.. hence the little amounts of agression towards our "leader"

[Lerxst]

Ado - if you feel you have to "endure" all that "crap" then leave. It's your choice - you don't have to. And this 15 bucks compared to what spinner pays gives you no right to put yourself on this level. And if you think I do not understand it at all, then I'm happy it's like that.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Spinner doesn't pay anything. He's PAID by jolt.

And people have left. In droves.

[Ado]

Originally Posted by Lerxst

Ado - if you feel you have to "endure" all that "crap" then leave. It's your choice - you don't have to. And this 15 bucks compared to what spinner pays gives you no right to put yourself on this level. And if you think I do not understand it at all, then I'm happy it's like that.

I pay the money to have fun with friends essentially, the fact that i have to ensure this crap is what makes me and many other people angry. Many have left, many more will, the fact that you believe spinner deserves some slack is laughable. As for spinner, him being here, making the loss, starving his family (ok .. exageration) is his choice, if he doesnt like it shut up shop and get a paying job... easy enough.

[Aer]

I've tried not to follow this thread, but just reading it seems a bit pointless, especially when people seem to be making it personal against Spinner.

There have been points made for both sides of this debate: that Spinner has worked DAMN hard for the community (which he has, regardless of what you kiddies out there think) and sometimes, out of his control, things have happened which.... maybe shouldn't have, like the round 9.5 problems, like p2p in the first place.

However, such things happen, so get on with it - if PA lasts only for this round, I for one can say thank you Spinner & co-creatory ppl for creating this game and community, sad to see you go, see you around sometime.

but obviously I want to PA to continue - otherwise i wouldnt be able to write my parody...

I'll leave this thread in peace. But maybe THANK Spinner sometime... (and every1 makes mistakes)

Peace be with You.

~Aer

[W]

Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone makes mistakes after having yelled at them BEFORE making them that they are a horrible horrible idea. Not everyone repeats their mistakes again and again and again and again.

And damn, if Spinner is allowed to take the credit for doing things FOR pa, we sure have a right to stick the problems with it on him too. As a former pacrew, multidetective, moderator and #planetarion op, I can only state that I do not know of one single thing that Spinner has done that has been even moderately successful. I know him as someone who refuse help when offered without strings attached, who rejects sound advice until proven necesarry, and who has a petty hate for anyone who is proven right when he has been wrong.

[Lerxst]

Again - the "death" of PA is at least not Spinners fault alone...

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Lerxst

Again - the "death" of PA is at least not Spinners fault alone...

Is it so difficult to understand that the man who makes the choices holds the responsibility?

[Lerxst]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Is it so difficult to understand that the man who makes the choices holds the responsibility?

Is it so difficult to understand the difference between "responsibility" and "fault"?

Edit: A community-driven game *can* be destroyed by the most important factor in the game - the "community" (the ppl who play it). Even spinner cannot change that by doing a "choice". His choices were not the best, and I am FAR away from being his advocat. He may have had the possibility to change PA to a better game - multiple times. But in the end, for all my 20 RL-friends who left this game since r5, not one reason to leave was based on a decision spinner did. I have far to less insight to play judge and jury (and so have approx. 99% of the "spinnar killed PA" posters), so I base my opinion on the experiences I made.

We all can't run away from the choices WE made and how WE played the game in a way it's "played dead" now. Now grow up and stop throwing ALL the blame onto one person. At least stop being personal insulting towards him (not directed to you, MrL_JaKiri).

[Lockhead]

It's sad that Spinner aint commenting that - would be a good possibility to show that he cares about the community...

Anyway, we can't change him.

[pablissimo]

The game should have died before it went pay to play simply because the model of a free browser-based game of this forum just doesn't scale to the concept of having people pay for it. This should be somewhat obvious. The market's moved on in the three and a half years that PA's been about, it's become saturated with games of this type, it's seen a greater awareness of what is available for people to spend their time on and it's seen a huge increase in the adoption of technology such as broadband.

All the whinging in the world isn't going to change that, I'm frankly surprised it's survived this far. The changes that, imo, would have been required to bring the game, the concept, the model up to date are nothing short of phenomenal for current staff and they're almost certainly something the community wouldn't have survived.

W wins.

[dabult]

Too bad r8 didn't turn out to be the last round after all.

Imagine the reputation PA would have had for the rest of our internet lives if it would, and memories...oh teh joy....it really is too bad.

[Ado]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

The game should have died before it went pay to play simply because the model of a free browser-based game of this forum just doesn't scale to the concept of having people pay for it. This should be somewhat obvious. The market's moved on in the three and a half years that PA's been about, it's become saturated with games of this type, it's seen a greater awareness of what is available for people to spend their time on and it's seen a huge increase in the adoption of technology such as broadband.

All the whinging in the world isn't going to change that, I'm frankly surprised it's survived this far. The changes that, imo, would have been required to bring the game, the concept, the model up to date are nothing short of phenomenal for current staff and they're almost certainly something the community wouldn't have survived.

W wins.

I agree in part with that, PA can never be a mass market p2p sucess but it can aim towards the VERY core players it once had who in my experience would be willing to continue playing, trouble is the game is no longer being aimed at those core, but rather the untapped n00bs who have been a lot less forthcoming with their pennies than "someone" imagined.

O well.....

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Lerxst

Is it so difficult to understand the difference between "responsibility" and "fault"?

Fault: Responsibility for a mistake or an offense; culpability

Evidently, yes it is.

[pablissimo]

Originally Posted by Ado

I agree in part with that, PA can never be a mass market p2p sucess but it can aim towards the VERY core players it once had who in my experience would be willing to continue playing, trouble is the game is no longer being aimed at those core, but rather the untapped n00bs who have been a lot less forthcoming with their pennies than "someone" imagined.

O well.....

I doubt that there would be enough players of that ilk to keep Jolt sweet tbh

[Razorback]

i for one can predict that other games like ******** will love to absorb this community into their coreplayers and maybe change aswell to a cheaper and maybe more organised p2p model. Thank god to all the clones (its debateable if its still a clone of the masterpiece is dead) the pa concept will survive for those who are too addicted to get the final cut done.

[wakka]

I agree with ultimate newbee,listen to your customers because we can shut you down quickly. you shouldn't have messed with the game anyway you should resign. that would be the honorable thing to do

[pablissimo]

Originally Posted by wakka

I agree with ultimate newbee,listen to your customers because we can shut you down quickly. you shouldn't have messed with the game anyway you should resign. that would be the honorable thing to do

Yes because that would lead to an end result other than the game dissolving wouldn't it.

Ohwait, no, no it wouldn't.

[clau777]

right on ultimate newbie