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Unread 2 Aug 2012, 19:41   #1
Patrikc
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Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

In the last 20 rounds I've seen many people doing stats. Some good. Some bad. Stats varied greatly, too! From what I could tell, these people simply volunteered or submitted their stats to Appocomaster, who'd choose one to be put into Beta for further testing.

As I said, some were good, some were bad. Some looked very interesting from the start, others were obviously flawed without having to open a bcalc to see. I myself have had the priviledge twice, once with a good result, the other was quite unbalanced. Now, mistakes happen, calculations can be off. However, for a game where the rounds last 7 to 10 weeks, I find it unacceptable that after so many rounds, there still isn't a (better) protocol to improve the quality of the stats. There are at least 500 people playing this game, investing time and effort, and I find it almost insulting to their commitment that so little has been done to guarantee a (more) fun round.

Therefore, I suggest that the 'shipstat procedure' is done more openly and transparently, and that more people (I mean you!) are involved in selecting interesting and fun stats.
Every round, close to or just after the end, everyone that wishes to submit a set do so to Appocomaster (or another person on PATeam) including notes. He(/she) would do a preselection if there are a lot of submissions, and then put those up on the forums for debate and criticism, where the designers can defend them. After ample time, PATeam will decide which set to use, based on reception.


I expect these measures to improve the general quality of stats through competition, perhaps even ensure we don't get stuck with crappy stats for 7+ weeks.
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Unread 2 Aug 2012, 19:46   #2
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

I've never understood why we can't just re-use old sets now and then. It's not like a set of stats used 20 rounds ago will feel "old" if used again. JBG has made plenty of excellent sets that could all be used.

edit: This being said, I agree that there should be a better process when it comes to selecting statssets.
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Unread 2 Aug 2012, 20:03   #3
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

Thirded.
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Unread 2 Aug 2012, 21:35   #4
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

Happy to agree to this; unfortunately, reviewing stats is in some ways almost as time-consuming as making them.

Usually the current process works by 1-2 people volunteering stats, me putting the best set on beta, the maker working through them with support from another 1-2 or so people, beta testing them and then releasing them.

We have sometimes, though not always, reused stats, or used old stats as a base.

Admittedly, one of the reasons for change is that currently there isn't a large amount of change in the game apart from this. Also, what may have been fun in previous rounds may now not be fun. Example, Round 11 (?) with the stats issue where everyone went Terran because they thought it was best in beta, apart from 1up who went Xan as they were the round-robin counter to Terran. There'd be a completely different approach if they were used again, and it may or may not be more "fun".

Stats "enjoyment" is a lot about initial perceptions from a relatively small subset of people in alliances who make race decisions, and how strategies differ in alliances, as much as anything else.


As fpr a new process, if we have 10 sets of stats submitted, I'm honestly not sure who would want to go through all of them and try and decide which were best (or least bad) and then make modifications as necessary. 2 is about my limit
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Unread 2 Aug 2012, 22:02   #5
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

Take R37s stats f.ex. Judging by planets in the t100 they look fairly balanced, why not revise a set like that if you want ST stats.

Or take R30 stats which had 3 pods for each race (yay!).

Alternatively find a good set of MT stats with 2 pod-classes per race.


edit: JBG actually said R37 stats would be good to re-use at some point and he's never wrong
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Unread 3 Aug 2012, 03:55   #6
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

I realize your time is limited, too, but I did not mean that you should review all the sets; just that you take a glance and see if there are glaring holes that would disqualify them. Then you'd put the on the forums up for debate (on docs.google.com maybe?), perhaps with a voting option, and a week later you select the stats that seem to have the best chance of providing a fun and balanced round.

After that it'd go the same way as it does now, testing and tweaking in Beta. It's simply the pre-selection that'll provide some much needed 'quality control'.
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Unread 3 Aug 2012, 09:06   #7
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

How about the person/s make stats DURING the round and are put up on beta so they're available and completed BEFORE signups. it makes it hard on HC's to plan a strat a day or two before the game starts, then all of a sudden a late change is made which requires a tweak to strat. i would like to suggest a nomination of a stat maker or volunteer to start making next rounds stats in the next few weeks and have them ready to go on beta before say tick 600.
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Unread 3 Aug 2012, 09:27   #8
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

You can't really say if stats was balanced based on planet rankings!
As there are so many OTHER factors, like what alliance the players are in, how active/smart they play etc... The list goes on with factors, but yes i agree to a far extend that we need more useful input to have better balanced stats.

I would suggest a stats team that works together during rounds to develop the next round stats, instead of 1-2 ppl rushing to get something together before a new round start. As having "everyones" voice to adjust stats is simply retarded/impossible, some people just dont have the ability to see things through a neutral perspective. And will always voice their opinion that would improve the choise they plan to make.
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Unread 3 Aug 2012, 18:10   #9
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Then you'd put the on the forums up for debate (on docs.google.com maybe?), perhaps with a voting option, and a week later you select the stats that seem to have the best chance of providing a fun and balanced round.
I don't see how Googledocs would be necessary for reviewing, when each set of stats seems to have a unique ID anyway. An easy solution would be creating links like: http://beta.planetarion.com/SampleStats(1/2/3) etc. The code for the stats matrix is already available, and so I don't see how creating a new page with a stats matrix that isn't referenced by the combat engine et al to be any more complicated than putting them on Googledocs.

While the game very well might have 500 people who play regularly, I wouldn't necessarily trust each of them to be able to go into an open document and make changes to a set of proposed stats.
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Unread 3 Aug 2012, 23:11   #10
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

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Originally Posted by t3k View Post

While the game very well might have 500 people who play regularly, I wouldn't necessarily trust each of them to be able to go into an open document and make changes to a set of proposed stats.
Especially since almost 90% of all suggestions don't ever get any feedback, so why bother to work on stats? There is no mechanism that encourages players to do voluntary work for this game.
Almost none of the threads in the "suggestions" thread are noticed by the devs or at least they don't let us know they read it which is the same..
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Unread 4 Aug 2012, 05:30   #11
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

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Originally Posted by t3k View Post
I wouldn't necessarily trust each of them to be able to go into an open document and make changes to a set of proposed stats.
I definitely didn't mean giving them all access to change. Having it on planetarion.com would certainly be best in the future, I'm just not sure how much time it'd cost and if that time (and effort) is available.
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Unread 4 Aug 2012, 07:48   #12
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
How about the person/s make stats DURING the round and are put up on beta so they're available and completed BEFORE signups. it makes it hard on HC's to plan a strat a day or two before the game starts, then all of a sudden a late change is made which requires a tweak to strat. i would like to suggest a nomination of a stat maker or volunteer to start making next rounds stats in the next few weeks and have them ready to go on beta before say tick 600.
I don't think beta testing during an active round is suitable.
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Unread 4 Aug 2012, 09:21   #13
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Re: Something long overdue: increasing Ship Stat quality

because..........
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