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Unread 13 Nov 2018, 09:03   #1
BloodyButcher
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R80 stats

Since this round is going into the last phases, the discussion about next rounds set should be re-opened.

This round we have seen a pretty close and entertaining round (from an outside view on kia atleast), and we have had a stats set that almost every alliance see some weakness to their strats.
This is why we should consider doing some small adjustments to this set, and re-run it again next round instead of gambling on a new set.
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Unread 13 Nov 2018, 15:48   #2
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Re: R80 stats

Not sure if it's 'gambling' on a new set. Since one already got picked to be run in next round.

But still a good idea. Almost every round I regret not picking another race or Shipbuild. So would be fun to give everyone a second chance to pick.
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Unread 13 Nov 2018, 19:22   #3
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Re: R80 stats

My impression of KIA is different. The stats are massively imbalanced, to the point that it might be better to just start over. Even if we ('we') decide to build on them, they'll need more than a few small adjustments.
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Unread 14 Nov 2018, 00:58   #4
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Re: R80 stats

I think what this round has showed is the amount of class targeting is spot on for modern pa. Fi/co targeting 2 classes and fr/de/cr/bs targeting 3. It's the perfect balance.

We have been playing pa for far to long and pols/ally strategy quickly adapt to the stats. So any less and you get a xp whore round, whist any more and you get a real boring defensive feast with allys doing lots of deals.

Rather than rerun this set, I say we stick to this class template. As boring as it sounds and would lack creativity for any stat creator, it makes for the best rounds with balance between attack and defence.
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Unread 14 Nov 2018, 12:29   #5
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Re: R80 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
My impression of KIA is different. The stats are massively imbalanced, to the point that it might be better to just start over. Even if we ('we') decide to build on them, they'll need more than a few small adjustments.
What part of kia are you looking at though?
The race spread in the top100 looks similiar to last round, and that set has been ran 3 times.

This set has worked out great in both offense and defence, and could be better with a few minor changes.

I suggest:

Pirate init 7 -> 5
Scarab swap T1 with T2
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Unread 14 Nov 2018, 18:02   #6
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Re: R80 stats

I'm seeing that Ter and Cat each have more planets than Zik and Etd combined and I'm seeing that Xan is woefully under-represented.

But, this is not the hill I want to die on. If you want to spend a lot of effort getting these stats into shape, then by all means, be my guest.
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Unread 20 Nov 2018, 03:44   #7
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Re: R80 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
My impression of KIA is different. The stats are massively imbalanced, to the point that it might be better to just start over. Even if we ('we') decide to build on them, they'll need more than a few small adjustments.
Agree, stats are massively imbalanced. Many adjustments to targeting, initiative, and especially efficiency of several ships would need to be made to try to bring parity to the classes.
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Unread 20 Nov 2018, 18:02   #8
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Re: R80 stats

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Originally Posted by Falran View Post
Agree, stats are massively imbalanced. Many adjustments to targeting, initiative, and especially efficiency of several ships would need to be made to try to bring parity to the classes.
Massively imbalanced is a bit much eh.
Terran and Cathaar is slightly overpicked, wich left Xan FI massively underpowered.
How ever, the top100 is more or less in sync with the what races has been.
Zik/ETD/Cath has the same amount of top100 planets as you would expect based on the amount of planets in total.

Maybe Xan wouldve had more top planets if politics was different from the start, or if most had changed from xan fi to xan fr when they saw the race spred.




These stats how ever are very balanced when it comes to what we want in a round when it comes to holding roids, attacking, defending and XPing.
This is why these stats should be ran another round with some small modifications.
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Unread 21 Nov 2018, 00:39   #9
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Re: R80 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Massively imbalanced is a bit much eh.
Terran and Cathaar is slightly overpicked, wich left Xan FI massively underpowered.
How ever, the top100 is more or less in sync with the what races has been.
Zik/ETD/Cath has the same amount of top100 planets as you would expect based on the amount of planets in total.

Maybe Xan wouldve had more top planets if politics was different from the start, or if most had changed from xan fi to xan fr when they saw the race spred.




These stats how ever are very balanced when it comes to what we want in a round when it comes to holding roids, attacking, defending and XPing.
This is why these stats should be ran another round with some small modifications.
I think the basic class layout and amount of targets per class and to other classes in general is okay; but, certain things really didn't end up making sense and lead to Ter/Cat being especially over picked, which of course exacerbated some of the problems for xan that you alluded to with their Fi being very suboptimal.

1.) Ter/Cat efficiencies are too high, particularly on the larger ship classes.
The theme of terran having high A/C makes sense, but the pegasus is a bit too high for shooting before all non-emp fi. Wyvern is in a similar boat.

Cat CR are also hugely in this boat. They have some of the best A/C I've ever seen. They EMP & Flak way too strongly combined with Zik CR. This teamup is super oppressive, especially since CAT was over picked and can do nothing to stop CR (the widow is a joke with this race breakdown, not enough FR to do anything against CR or BS cause of Mantis). So some tweaks to A/C (and probably D/C) to these ships and the ones they interact with would be a good start.

I'd also change the targeting on Mantis to FR/CR, and make the Wraith shoot DE. This would make BS teamups have more symmetry with what CR teamups already do. Since etd would get extra CR emp, probably swap targetting on Scarab or otherwise rework somehow.

Also, the spectre just doesn't make sense and should be reconsidered entirely.

Those are my impressions of places to look for changes anyways, after having sorted hundreds and hundreds of def calls and bcalcs this round.

I'd also like to see constructions revisited. Amps at 60% more CUs than distorters forces most of the uni into distorters, especially with cathaar's terrible building speed. This favors races with heavier ships (basically everyone except Xan) as it lets them project far more power (value/fleet) than xan, especially when xan had two core non-cloaked ships.

Last edited by Falran; 21 Nov 2018 at 01:24. Reason: More data
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Unread 27 Nov 2018, 11:52   #10
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Re: R80 stats

Spectres are awesome! Put Cath CR + Xan CR ingal versus FR incs and they clean house very easily. Maybe add them T2 vs DE, as a 2nd option to the woefully underpowered banshee and DE fleets were able to heavily skew Pegs/Clippers in fleet build.
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