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9 Jul 2010, 03:35
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#101
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Moo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
There should be a video that shows new people how to do the intro quests with the most hand-holding baby steps in the world. I've introduced smart people to the game who were too stupid (or blind) to sort through the links on the preferences page and get their planet set up.
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9 Jul 2010, 06:27
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#102
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
- Ground troops could be a very interesting addition and open up new ways to have fun.
Enemy troops on the ground could control (rather than destroy) a proportion of the planet's buildings (with the resources, bonuses they give).
Enemy troops controlling more than 50% of a planet could bring anarchy (no more government bonuses)
Enemy troops staying more than x ticks on the ground could lower the max population settings (going down by 10% each tick)
- A Cluster Trade Market where the 3 resources would have a fluctuating value based on the demand and the offer could be nice (example 1000 metal valued 800 crystal or 1200 eonium). People could sell/buy in real time.
- A Universe Casino where you'd find basic games (poker, slot machines, dices...) to try your luck with your own resources. A good way to spend the time between ticks.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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9 Jul 2010, 09:17
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#103
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
I'll change my three suggestions to one actually
Get rid of #alliances.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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9 Jul 2010, 11:26
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'll change my three suggestions to one actually
Get rid of #alliances.
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JBG - you have been round the block and this place for a long time..
why did you just say that? (I'm not a big fan of alliances, but many are. Would be good to see your considerations on why you have that view)
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My Co-Ords? There is nothing interesting at my Co-ords!
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9 Jul 2010, 13:07
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#105
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The Original Carebear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
I'll just come with advice to people who post suggestions here. I don't think about PA often enough to have anything good, though there are a few suggestions that come up now and then that I support.
Game design isn't very easy. If it was, PA would be way better. I think everyone who posted suggestions here mean well. But very broadly, nearly all suggestions so far fall into one of three piles:
- Quality of life improvement. Things like asking for a Galaxy Defense view similar to the alliance defense one falls into this. You can do without, but it'd be great to have it.
- Limiting the current ways of playing in some way.
- Adding complexity without adding any depth.
The last one is probably the easiest to go into when you try to suggest something that genuinely would improve the game in some revolutionary way. Complexity does not automatically add depth, but it sure adds learning curve. It is an expensive thing to add to a game. To quote some random wise person:
Quote:
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove.
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__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.
Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
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9 Jul 2010, 13:28
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#106
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Quote:
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove.
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if this were April 1st, I'd respond with:
On this note, we've decided to remove alliances and implemented 1 man galaxies. One race, called "star fleet", will be available, with one pod (astropod) and one other ship (interceptor). You will build this with your one resource type, metal. One government, (mono)theocracy, will be available too.
unfortunately, this isn't April the first. It's still a valid point, and adding depth without adding complexity would always be welcome.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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9 Jul 2010, 13:57
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I'll just come with advice to people who post suggestions here. I don't think about PA often enough to have anything good, though there are a few suggestions that come up now and then that I support.
Game design isn't very easy. If it was, PA would be way better. I think everyone who posted suggestions here mean well. But very broadly, nearly all suggestions so far fall into one of three piles:
- Quality of life improvement. Things like asking for a Galaxy Defense view similar to the alliance defense one falls into this. You can do without, but it'd be great to have it.
- Limiting the current ways of playing in some way.
- Adding complexity without adding any depth.
The last one is probably the easiest to go into when you try to suggest something that genuinely would improve the game in some revolutionary way. Complexity does not automatically add depth, but it sure adds learning curve. It is an expensive thing to add to a game. To quote some random wise person:
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I think when asking for ideas, its best not to try and limit them to any form. There will be mad ideas, and very bad ideas and all in between. And most ideas either way probably equate to masses of work, which is an unfortunate fact, and one that should not really be used to hammer the ideas being put forward.
I think its very good that Appoco asked for people to contribute ideas. I suspect most people know these have little or no chance to be used, but people willingly throw their ideas in.
Occasionally, Appoco or others might see a beatufully simple idea, or perhaps a long winded one that is ornate that might work, or might be doable. And if so, thats great.
In terms of game, I guess what great games have is complexity tied to simplicity. So, you are looking for simple ways of doing a very great deal, and presenting this in an easy to use way to an end-user/player. If you achieve that goal, the complaints about 'complexity' go away.
Although some people have said this, going back to one race and a very short ship list is for them a good idea, I think thats like taking cluedo and reducing the game down to 3 players, 3 weapons, and 3 rooms. Thinking the game would benefit from that step I believe is a mistake.
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My Co-Ords? There is nothing interesting at my Co-ords!
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9 Jul 2010, 15:03
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#108
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
1. Redo the MH team to comply with (at least) the very basic standards of CS;
2. Remove those damn tabs within the scans page and such, they are utterly useless;
3. Improve the quest system with rewards that can motivate people/starters doing them.
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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9 Jul 2010, 15:10
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#109
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Although some people have said this, going back to one race and a very short ship list is for them a good idea, I think thats like taking cluedo and reducing the game down to 3 players, 3 weapons, and 3 rooms. Thinking the game would benefit from that step I believe is a mistake.
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The one race idea isnt exactly the same as 'completly taking the race choices out of the game', instead they would be implemented in the tech tree. So that people dont have to make a massive game decision at signup.
If you would like your cluedo analogy, it would be reducing the game down to starting with only 1 suspect but with each diceroll, you discover another person who might of been there.
Nearly everything in PA has been implemented to that its done at tick 0 or very close to tick 0 including your strategys (Goverment, Race, what ship class your going for, the amount of roids to init to, your alliance, your galaxy, etc) leaving nothing for the rest of the game except to follow your plan and attack. It isnt a bad idea to space these things out, which would give the advantage of having more things to do mid-round and making as many 'game deciding decisions' until a player at least understands the basics of the game.
For example, instead of races.. You would have default fi ships which once you've researched, you will have mutually exclusive branches to Stealth, EMP, Steal or Normal ships. The race's and diversity would still be in the game but added at a later choice, the only real consequence would be that ETD race wouldnt exist unless you decided to add a 'mixed' tree.
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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9 Jul 2010, 16:23
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#110
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowch
There should be a video that shows new people how to do the intro quests with the most hand-holding baby steps in the world. I've introduced smart people to the game who were too stupid (or blind) to sort through the links on the preferences page and get their planet set up.
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http://www.planetarion.com/misc/pages/intro-video?
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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9 Jul 2010, 22:19
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
JBG - you have been round the block and this place for a long time..
why did you just say that? (I'm not a big fan of alliances, but many are. Would be good to see your considerations on why you have that view)
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He doesn't want to get rid of Alliances (or at least, that's not what he meant this time), he wants to get rid of #alliances.
It's a channel with representatives of each alliance, and a few of the PA team, if I'm not mistaken. Never felt the urge to get in there myself.
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9 Jul 2010, 22:23
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#112
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Never felt the urge to get in there myself.
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You are a wise man.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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9 Jul 2010, 22:32
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#113
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Complexity does not automatically add depth, but it sure adds learning curve.
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Preaching the gospel my friend. Too bad in 10 years, only a handful have caught on.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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9 Jul 2010, 22:43
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#114
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
unfortunately, this isn't April the first. It's still a valid point, and adding depth without adding complexity would always be welcome.
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Reintroduce cluster eta, both attack and defense. Depth without complexity.
Remove security guards. Depth without complexity.
Lengthen research tree. Depth without complexity.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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9 Jul 2010, 22:54
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#115
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Moo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
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Well... shit.
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10 Jul 2010, 00:15
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#116
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Reintroduce cluster eta, both attack and defense. Depth without complexity.
Remove security guards. Depth without complexity.
Lengthen research tree. Depth without complexity.
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Technically...
-The first adds complexity, although the added depth probably outweighs it.
-Second reduces both complexity and depth, but again the benefit swings in favour of the your suggestion.
-The third simply adds an illusion of depth. There's no real objective benefit, just an alternative outcome.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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10 Jul 2010, 01:31
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 39
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowch
Well... shit.
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Been watching this, and although I found it comprehensive and thorough, it shouldnt last for 12+ minutes.
In other words, simplify! (the game)
Few noobs will actually sit through and watch that tbh.
__________________
Elysium Hoplite
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10 Jul 2010, 05:51
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri
Been watching this, and although I found it comprehensive and thorough, it shouldnt last for 12+ minutes.
In other words, simplify! (the game)
Few noobs will actually sit through and watch that tbh.
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I agree about the video being too long but if I'm a noob to a a game like this, I'd just want an in-game tutorial/walkthrough to guide me through the process of setting up my planet instead. Like you'd have a persistent message at the top of the page telling you what the next step is in creating a 'sustainable' planet and have a link to the page where you can complete that task.
For example, when you log in for the first time a message would pop up recommending you accept your resource bonus. If you accept it, a new message will appear asking you to spend your research/cons points (but I would change the bonus distribution page so that has the details like the regular res/cons pages). After that, it will ask you to initiate roids followed by queing res/cons and so on until all the pre-tick stuff is done in the correct order. If you're like a real pro and stuff, there'd be a switch to turn off the messages.
__________________
Being a n00b in PA is like trying to fly a commercial airplane with absolutely no training. You'll either never leave the runway and if you do, you will inevitably crash in a spectacular fashion.
Last edited by deft; 10 Jul 2010 at 06:47.
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10 Jul 2010, 06:40
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
I was thinking about what its like to be a noob some more and I think maybe the whole quest system should be scrapped and replace with quests that become unlocked at certain times or when your planet reaches specific milestones. Completing the quest should result in a small reward of some kind to encourage noobs to stick around and find out what their next quest is going to be.
For example, at tick 25 a message appears at the top of the page (on every page) telling you steal 50 roids from another planet. Maybe there could be multiple quests that appear at the same time and you have to choose one depending on your style of play (perform covert op instead of stealing roids). Limit the time certain quests can be completed in before it expires and you have to wait to unlock the next quest. I don't really have any specific ideas on what these new quests should be or how/when they would be unlocked but I'm sure there's some fun stuff we can think of to reward noob progression.
__________________
Being a n00b in PA is like trying to fly a commercial airplane with absolutely no training. You'll either never leave the runway and if you do, you will inevitably crash in a spectacular fashion.
Last edited by deft; 10 Jul 2010 at 06:47.
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10 Jul 2010, 13:04
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#120
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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10 Jul 2010, 17:36
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#121
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Reservoir Dog
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Down South,England
Posts: 613
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunkelGraf
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
-reduce the cost of scans including amps/dists
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Yeah the scans cost is kinda of ridiculous compared to other aspects of the game. How can 1 scan cost more than 1 ship?
__________________
verTIGO | Ascendancy (For Life) | NewDawn | Elysium | Angel's | eXilition | Ministry (Honoury)
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10 Jul 2010, 20:29
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#122
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
No one cares about realism. Scan costs are balanced just fine.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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11 Jul 2010, 01:05
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#123
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
This entire thread is pointless, unless, suddenly Appoco has time again to actively develop the game?
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11 Jul 2010, 12:00
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#124
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xVx
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 165
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No one cares about realism.
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Please speak for yourself.
__________________
xVx ftw
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11 Jul 2010, 12:21
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#125
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
This entire thread is pointless, unless, suddenly Appoco has time again to actively develop the game?
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Even then it is pointless until someone comes with a clear vision on what the game should be like.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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11 Jul 2010, 12:22
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#126
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka
Please speak for yourself.
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No one who has a clue cares about realism.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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11 Jul 2010, 16:56
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#127
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No one cares about realism. Scan costs are balanced just fine.
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They are not balanced if you have to do them all for yourself!
Luckily i am able to get scans from asc until i get my own au. And it also helps against people with more amps than me. But over the wohle round i spend A LOT of resources just for scans.
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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11 Jul 2010, 17:13
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#128
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunkelGraf
They are not balanced if you have to do them all for yourself!
Luckily i am able to get scans from asc until i get my own au. And it also helps against people with more amps than me. But over the wohle round i spend A LOT of resources just for scans.
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So does everyone else.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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11 Jul 2010, 17:19
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#129
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Dumb Yankee
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 89
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No one who has a clue cares about realism.
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Wait... space combat between 5 races of aliens isn't real? Damn it.
__________________
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11 Jul 2010, 19:18
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#130
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
So does everyone else.
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No
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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11 Jul 2010, 19:51
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#131
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Moo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Right now I'm basically paying 37k resources per tick for my scans, and likely for smaller planets also. So, it costs a lot for us all.
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11 Jul 2010, 20:58
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#132
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
I think you need to revise your scanning strategy. I'm a scanner and don't even get close, but if you want to discuss this further, I'd suggest opening a topic for it.
P.S. I just added up the costs of all of Ascendancy's scans for this round, 22369 of them in total, and we use 1751 of each resource per member per tick. For the last week, it's 2051 of each resource per member per tick.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 11 Jul 2010 at 21:26.
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12 Jul 2010, 08:27
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#133
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
An ally just has to scan one gal and members pick the best targets they can attack. I have to scan much more targets to find a good one for me to attack.
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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12 Jul 2010, 09:05
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#134
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Welcome to team play.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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12 Jul 2010, 09:08
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#135
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Welcome to team play.
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Dunkelgraf's point remains valid, though. John Newbie is extremely unlikely to start in a position where he has easy access to scanners.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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12 Jul 2010, 10:21
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#136
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
The issue is that it takes forever to get them, not that they're expensive.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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12 Jul 2010, 17:42
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#137
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The issue is that it takes forever to get them, not that they're expensive.
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Partly disagreeing, scans are expensive. When the drop in ship costs happened scans become 10 times more expensive then they used to be. While this may be less of a problem for alliances - as you have demonstrated by taking the numbers from the most efficiently playing alliance - this is indeed a problem for new players, or players without access to dedicated scanners. Even more so in the beginning of a round where 20 ships can make a hell of a difference.
Also, something that just sprang to my mind - why is the game designed in a way that you have to have dedicated scanners? This is in no way stated anywhere, and the whole sign up process as well as the manual is more trying to stress a point that playing a different race means the game will be a different experience (which is not true except for being Cathaargh, there you just sign up to be a victim). So I think this is due some attention as well, even though not necessarily top priority.
However, this is getting off topic, I suggest a mod goes and splits these scan cost related postings into a separate thread on PS.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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12 Jul 2010, 18:50
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#138
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
When the drop in ship costs happened scans become 10 times more expensive then they used to be.
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What.
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Originally Posted by Heartless
Partly disagreeing, scans are expensive. (...) While this may be less of a problem for alliances - as you have demonstrated by taking the numbers from the most efficiently playing alliance - this is indeed a problem for new players, or players without access to dedicated scanners. Even more so in the beginning of a round where 20 ships can make a hell of a difference.
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Firstly, in the beginning of the round, people do not have access to the most expensive scans (jumpgate, advanced unit scan) and so make do with less expensive ones (landing scan, unit scan, news scan). These are also the scans that solo players should refer to later in the round, whenever possible.
Secondly, you're overplaying the amount of difference "20 ships" can make. Even at the beginning of the round, even if they're Terran battleships, 20 ships will never have a significant impact.
Thirdly, the numbers Cowch gave us are nothing short of ridiculous. 37k resources a tick is 60 advanced unit scans, 20 jumpgate probes, 10 incoming scans, 20 news scans, 20 dev scans and 48 planet scans, every single day. I would be hard pressed to spend a quarter of that, even as a solo player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Also, something that just sprang to my mind - why is the game designed in a way that you have to have dedicated scanners?
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Why, indeed. One could point out that it's a team game, but (as I know you agree), a game that requires some people to give up on playing "properly" just to make sure others can is not doing a particularly good job. Cooperation is one thing, harakiri is quite another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
This is in no way stated anywhere, and the whole sign up process as well as the manual is more trying to stress a point that playing a different race means the game will be a different experience (which is not true except for being Cathaargh, there you just sign up to be a victim). So I think this is due some attention as well, even though not necessarily top priority.
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Agreed.
[edit]Note, I'm not saying that norbert newbie doesn't spend more on scans than vera veteran, but surely scan costs are tjhe least of norb's concerns. Efficiency is one of the main reasons why alliances were formed and why they still exist. I have no problem with there being that incentive to join one.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 12 Jul 2010 at 19:17.
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12 Jul 2010, 19:37
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#139
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
What [...]
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I got lost in my trail of thoughts there ignoring that it is the same outcome, at least I made an ass out of myself there with my initial point. \o/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Thirdly, the numbers Cowch gave us are nothing short of ridiculous. 37k resources a tick is 60 advanced unit scans, 20 jumpgate probes, 10 incoming scans, 20 news scans, 20 dev scans and 48 planet scans, every single day. I would be hard pressed to spend a quarter of that, even as a solo player.
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That's the income of 148 roids a tick, I do agree that's ridiculous. Still what should be considered is the ratio of [total amount of resources a non-allied planet spends on average on scans] / [total amount of resources a non-allied planet has available for spending] against the same ratio for allied planets. An estimated guess yields the same result as the one you indicate in the edit of your posting, and my gut feeling tells me that this indicates too much advantage for the team, since they can gain a lot of extra income from their scanners going for bank hacking.
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Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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12 Jul 2010, 19:59
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#140
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Moo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
To be clear, that was 37k total resources per tick, not 37k of each. And, I think the alliance tax had been temporarily bumped when I checked. I don't often look at what it is.
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12 Jul 2010, 22:24
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#141
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 253
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
what happened to the promised affiliation to facebook?
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Rnd 1-7 Lost Honourguard (HC) WoH Bluetuba(BC) VtS(BC)
Rnd 26-32 Jenova Denial (BC) Newdawn (HC)
Rnd 33 Retired
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12 Jul 2010, 22:32
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#142
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Again, EMP is not a problem, it is more of a solution, just one that aint backed up enough.
Currently EMP's use is limited to a no loss attacks, when others landing a hit might lose a few ships, if one fails to run. In its curent form without backup of for example attackers salvage, fleet morals, xp rewards (to allow and support landing/battlereports) its pretty useless.
How I see the use of it is more on the battle side, IF there were battles to take place. EMP would be one allowing battles to take place reducing losses, allowing battles to take place by making battling less expensive and turning battles around by having an advantage of shooting first. Alliance/gal wars outcome could be determined by whom gets the first shot. Obviously u would need to balance it with enough damage makers and stealers. Kind of a race choise of a team player.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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12 Jul 2010, 22:40
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#143
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft
I don't really have any specific ideas on what these new quests should be or how/when they would be unlocked but I'm sure there's some fun stuff we can think of to reward noob progression.
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Agreed, curently the quests make no real impact or impression, the gained bonus from achieving a mission/task should give the reward on that exact field of play.
Ie, making your first landing scan would give u some amp bonus.
Ie, making your first security guard, would give some temporary security boost and so on. Real bad examples, but should give you the picture.
Obviously u can choose to skip them quests, or limit them to some specific branches, perhaps gaining more on those few made choises. Again allows you to specify your gaming and strategy.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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13 Jul 2010, 02:31
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#144
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syniteon
I wish PA had more people, so honestly:
1) I wouldn't mind seeing ads, even clicking interesting ads of my own volition if you put that money to putting PA ads out to attract new players.
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Still I suggest trading advertising space in somewhat similar games. Networking.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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13 Jul 2010, 08:36
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#145
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xVx
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 165
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No one who has a clue cares about realism.
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Pointlessly insulting people on the internet is certainly one of the best indicators of having a clue...
If you can turn of your brain off when 5 million ships are fighting with each other in a single battle, so be it, I consider it ridiculous.
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xVx ftw
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13 Jul 2010, 13:31
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#146
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Moo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Can we please change all the text to be about ponies and rainbows instead of space ships and asteroids so we don't have to talk about realism? I guess space kitties aren't absurd enough.
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13 Jul 2010, 14:06
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#147
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka
If you can turn of your brain off when 5 million ships are fighting with each other in a single battle, so be it, I consider it ridiculous.
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Does that sound like something to quit the game over? Something that will cause Norb Newbie to give up on the game after 2 days? Something to make Wishmaster complain on the forums?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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13 Jul 2010, 15:35
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#148
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fanboy
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 492
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Something to make Wishmaster complain on the forums?
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Yeah, it's Wishmaster
__________________
Ascendancy, former [ 1UP] & Ministry.
FOUNDER OF THE OFFICIAL ASCENDANCY LADY GAGA FAN CLUB
ASCENDANCY DEMOLITION MAN
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13 Jul 2010, 16:12
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#149
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xVx
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 165
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Does that sound like something to quit the game over? Something that will cause Norb Newbie to give up on the game after 2 days? Something to make Wishmaster complain on the forums?
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Depending on the player - I'd say so. There is no such thing as Norb Newbie, everyone does expect something different from the game, and yeah, some people do expect a good background story in a well-developed game universe - PA fails miserably on both. Some will prefer the big numbers sure, others would prefer affording their first battleship after saving up a few days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Even then it is pointless until someone comes with a clear vision on what the game should be like.
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I couldn't agree more to that, yet this vision should not be reduced to plain game mechanics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowch
Can we please change all the text to be about ponies and rainbows instead of space ships and asteroids so we don't have to talk about realism? I guess space kitties aren't absurd enough.
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The sad part is that you could actually do that without making the game feel any different. It might also attract the 10yo girls and ironic hipsters.
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xVx ftw
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13 Jul 2010, 22:13
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#150
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
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Re: If I could make three changes to Planetarion, they'd be .....
I am bored.
Scanners are support planets and have been for ages.
So change the way the system works.
1. Remove disties from general play.
2. Add disties to a special tech tree.
3. Make the tree a scanner tree.
4. The scanner tree changes the player so that it can't build ships.
5. The scanner can build pods, and can partake in alliance raids.
6. The scanner has to get funding from beyond its own resources for disties and these disties can be on planet or delivered to alliance planets in exchange for resources from said planet(s). However, building them obviously might use up a slot that could be used otherwise.
7. The scanner can build the same amps as a normal player, at a reduced price resource wise.
8. The scanner would have to be defended by the alliance he or she is a member of and scanners would become strategic targets in game.
9. Scanners have developed a technology that allows them to initiate roids in their sectors and are able to cloak these in additional ways in the tech tree not available to normal players.
10. Scanners get some tech that can capture attacking vessels in some ways and these become part of a defense fleet.
Change to normal players.
Disties are removed altogether.
Players can pay a scanner for a scan.
Alliances can pay a scanner for a scan
Its time to break scanners out and stop the support play, or as above, go the whole hog and make it another kind of player altogether.
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