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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 15:17   #1
Neo
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Winning alliance critieria

Why not set a way to set the winning alliance for the last round right now? I can only see two ways of judging it:

1) In-game tagging
As in the planetary tags. A r2 personal visual tags would might be best, if creators knew some quick way of implementing it the last days.

2) Number one player
If no alliance can get the #1 planet down, then how can there be any stronger alliance? And a allied victory, i'd say the alliance not having the #1 member would get a second place.


I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have a clear winner of this round, rather then having all regular board posters come here and try to convince in every way how they _really_ won!

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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 15:25   #2
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Re: Winning alliance critieria

Quote:
Originally posted by Neo

Comments?
I applaud the effort, but realistically? Snowball in hell.
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 15:43   #3
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I know I won r7, even if the rankings or tags did not show it but does anyone care ?

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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 16:50   #4
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there can only be 1 valid criteria...top planet

any alliance who claims to have won should have had the power to knock every1 off that top spot if it wasnt one of them

[edit] note to self ... READ thread, THEN reply .. not the other way round :/
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 17:02   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akallabeth
there can only be 1 valid criteria...top planet

any alliance who claims to have won should have had the power to knock every1 off that top spot if it wasnt one of them
You will never get a clear-cut answer to that. Do you think that anyone attacking a top 1 planet will only allow people in their alliance to join them (no friends). Do you think the number 1 planet will only allow their alliance to defend them? How many Titans members defended Servuz? How many m8s of Fury members sent their ships along for the ride? How many of their m8s, etc, etc.
The only 1vs1 alliance battles you will see are n00b1e alliance X attacking n00b1e alliance Y's chief medical officer because he stole 3 roids on overburn from them with his 22:15LT just before bedtime.

Next?
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 17:12   #6
ado
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akallabeth
there can only be 1 valid criteria...top planet

any alliance who claims to have won should have had the power to knock every1 off that top spot if it wasnt one of them

[edit] note to self ... READ thread, THEN reply .. not the other way round :/
You are speaking complete crap, its relativly easy for a ****ty alliance to keep a planet at number one using fleet escorting and suicide defence tactics. This round its simple.. at this stage there is NO clear way to distiguish the winning alliance, unless personal tagging is implemented and the average and final scores can be deduced at round end (and even this is open to abuse).

In 4 weeks time, it should be obvious to everyone "who is winning", meaning the alliance who can still defend all its incoming etc.
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 18:23   #7
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winning alliance criteria for this round would be who dominates top 25 or top 30. It can't be judged on galaxies this round as joe blow could from sheer exile accidentally find himself in the #1 galaxy. So for this round its all about who controls the top planets , top 25 or top 30 and that would be your winning alliance or allies for r8.
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 18:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axis_WLF
winning alliance criteria for this round would be who dominates top 25 or top 30

Totally agree. Galaxy tags mean nothing. Top 50 or even top 100 players. Would mean alliances publishing the top 100. I can't see the winning alliances having a problem with that to prove their win.
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 21:08   #9
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Personally I would take great interest if alliances would be willing to publish their member coord lists after the end of the round, so people can do some investigating =)
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 21:23   #10
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If possible for creators, implent an option when round ends for ppl to change planetname and ruler. E.g 1:1:1 Fudge of Revolt ??
Then we can clearleh see on rankings who had which planet...
Just a suggestion...dont know if its doable though...
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Unread 14 Nov 2002, 23:37   #11
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creators won't implement any little thing anymore, i would bet a few euros there..
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 00:08   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eol
Personally I would take great interest if alliances would be willing to publish their member coord lists after the end of the round, so people can do some investigating =)
or all the alliances could tag in-game 12 hrs or a day before rd ends that way everyone can see who controls the most top 50 planets or has the best overall score, and u would be able to see how each of the alliances finished

(that close to game end wont make much differance if their is a spy in the alliancee cause at that stage most alliance's members co-ords will be know ,if they are not already known )
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 00:33   #13
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I think by the end of the round the top100 will be fully mapped out by all major alliances. Most probably already have it mapped out (maybe not nicks). So I cant see working out who dominates the top planets being much of a problem

The main prob I can see is guys like jeffx who might be claimed by two different alliances, or accounts that have been swapped at some point in the round - giving more than one alliance the right to claim that it is 'their' planet represented in the topXXX
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 01:29   #14
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The alliance who dominates the top 50 or so planets would get my vote for being winners.


Galaxies have little to do with it, having active/skilled players keeping the high rankings til the last day clearly has.


Individual tagging: will never work.
There is NO way EVER, that only the members will tag, i would bet a shedload of $ on that.
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 11:21   #15
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I disagree, that a published top50 would be enough to give us a winner. We'd have to see the entire member-base. Don't see any reason why an alliance could not release publicly all their coords here on AD on the last few hours. I mean, what would be the point of keeping it secret ??
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 12:05   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neo
I disagree, that a published top50 would be enough to give us a winner. We'd have to see the entire member-base. Don't see any reason why an alliance could not release publicly all their coords here on AD on the last few hours. I mean, what would be the point of keeping it secret ??
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 13:36   #17
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Why should deciding the winner be any more difficult to when it was random all the way back in the early rounds.

ie. all random gals......
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 22:07   #18
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There are only two valid criterias for an alliance claiming that they have won:

1. Played solo.
2. Had fun.

Not every alliance alliance can win this...
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Unread 15 Nov 2002, 22:39   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kev
Why should deciding the winner be any more difficult to when it was random all the way back in the early rounds.

ie. all random gals......
Last time it was truly random was rnd2, and then everyone used planet tags.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 12:19   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by dabult
The alliance who dominates the top 50 or so planets would get my vote for being winners.


Galaxies have little to do with it, having active/skilled players keeping the high rankings til the last day clearly has.


Individual tagging: will never work.
There is NO way EVER, that only the members will tag, i would bet a shedload of $ on that.

well tagging could work if there was any honour or honesty left in the game

( cant believe im actually saying that)
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:34   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by gzambo



well tagging could work if there was any honour or honesty left in the game

( cant believe im actually saying that)
Going by tags will never works, sadly people will abuse it

Using top galaxy as the difinitive winner, cant really be used in a random galaxy situation.

Therfore, it could only be whomever controls #1 planet position. Which ever alliance he is himself, is the alliance #1 spot repersents. This could also stop #1 place getting too far ahead off everyone else and keep it interesting imho.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:37   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus


Going by tags will never works, sadly people will abuse it

Using top galaxy as the difinitive winner, cant really be used in a random galaxy situation.

Therfore, it could only be whomever controls #1 planet position. Which ever alliance he is himself, is the alliance #1 spot repersents. This could also stop #1 place getting too far ahead off everyone else and keep it interesting imho.
it is funny to see that you always try to comment on a game you lost sight off mid round 3
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:39   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus


Going by tags will never works, sadly people will abuse it

Using top galaxy as the difinitive winner, cant really be used in a random galaxy situation.

Therfore, it could only be whomever controls #1 planet position. Which ever alliance he is himself, is the alliance #1 spot repersents. This could also stop #1 place getting too far ahead off everyone else and keep it interesting imho.
Well ithink that tagging planets is the clear way to claim a victory since it would also need Honesty which in my opinion is a rather important part of the game :-)

And it would keep ad alive cause we could all spam at eachother that they are cheating and givning out tagsetc... !!
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:48   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Knight Theamion

it is funny to see that you always try to comment on a game you lost sight off mid round 3
lol, why not comment? It is discussion boards afterall isnt it?
As for your opinion, your welcome to it, as am I and everyone else on these forums. Im sure many even have plenty off comments about you, yet are polite enough not to post them in public as it would be obvious that they are doing it for attension or just to moan or "appear big" If you have a problem about someone, posting it in public will only guarenttee it will end in a bad way. Use pm on the forums, use email or even irc to discuss it, thats if you wish to fix the situation at all.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 13:57   #25
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I wouldnt call an alliance with 500 2 mil planets the "winning" alliance, even if they won on the tags

Nor would I call someone the winning alliance if all there #1 planet did was farm/get escorted all over the place and win the donation race
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:01   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kileman
I wouldnt call an alliance with 500 2 mil planets the "winning" alliance, even if they won on the tags
True, then you would have the senerios off alliance which have no chance, changing tag to one of the big alliances just to make it appear it won. Sorry, but its just unrealistic to trust everyone to tag the alliance they are in. If you fight for X alliance, then attack #1 spot and cliam #1 spot for your alliance, sounds more fun dont you think? Thers still 4 weeks left ya know, lot can change
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus


True, then you would have the senerios off alliance which have no chance, changing tag to one of the big alliances just to make it appear it won. Sorry, but its just unrealistic to trust everyone to tag the alliance they are in. If you fight for X alliance, then attack #1 spot and cliam #1 spot for your alliance, sounds more fun dont you think? Thers still 4 weeks left ya know, lot can change
Even if tagging was completly honest, being the alliance with the most members by no means represents the best alliance.

And again #1 spot is debatable.

Who would you say was the winner if the #1 planet was alliance A but planets 2-20 were alliance B?

You could say "why not just attack them" but in many cases friendship and 'honour' is involved....
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:05   #28
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The only way I can see is for us to have the "Who was top 100" thread again like we did last round, and let people draw their own conclusions.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:08   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus
Thers still 4 weeks left
Is that an official annoucement of the end of the round?
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:08   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus


Going by tags will never works, sadly people will abuse it

Using top galaxy as the difinitive winner, cant really be used in a random galaxy situation.

Therfore, it could only be whomever controls #1 planet position. Which ever alliance he is himself, is the alliance #1 spot repersents. This could also stop #1 place getting too far ahead off everyone else and keep it interesting imho.

Tags would work better, if the creator of the tag has to validate those wanting to use it.

ofcourse this is not a perfect method, far from there, but it still 99times better than the current in-game tag system
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:11   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kileman

Who would you say was the winner if the #1 planet was alliance A but planets 2-20 were alliance B?

Sure any way its done will be debatible. But if you think of a mountain, with 6000 people at the bottom, grouped in differenmt sizes etc...their alliances, all racing to peak off the mountain, pushing, shoving, bashing their way up there. X alliance get to the peak first being #1 spot, now all the others in his alliance suround him and defend him against all the other alliances...in the end their can be only one ya know


May also get some people fighitng again, as as for lyoyalty to other alliances, its the last round ffs, there is only one winner Fight for #1 spot and give a difinitive alliance winners on the last ticks of round 8
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:15   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy_r


Is that an official annoucement of the end of the round?
Ie game stops at Christmas I guess, like r5.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:15   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
Unfortunately means nothing in a 5k universe.
top 5000 thread anyone?
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:16   #34
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Is that an official annoucement of the end of the round?
Spinner should be making an announcment soon on this matter, I think you will find it is close to what I said, just before xmas.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:31   #35
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The problem with ditching all your allies and going by the number 1 planet, is that no single alliance could mount a defence against a concerted waved fleet catching attack from everyone else in the game.

So, we would see the no.1 planet being killed and replaced by someone else every day for the last week.

It would practically hand victory to whoever was 7th or 8th a week before the end, which is absurd.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 14:32   #36
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All alliances publishing thier memberlists with ranks and so just when round ends, that may be only way i think.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 16:26   #37
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Everyone will know who the winning alliance is at the end of this round. Quite simply it will be the alliance who can summon the most ships in the least amount of time. People can still sacrifice their fleets to make one planet #1 come the end of this round and time so they actually run out of ships to send on defence at the same time the game ends. Any other criteria is just stupid. Otherwise tuba really won r1!
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 16:54   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Everyone will know who the winning alliance is at the end of this round. Quite simply it will be the alliance who can summon the most ships in the least amount of time. People can still sacrifice their fleets to make one planet #1 come the end of this round and time so they actually run out of ships to send on defence at the same time the game ends. Any other criteria is just stupid. Otherwise tuba really won r1!

Everyone will know?
So why are people still figthing over which was the best alliance at that round (Yes, we've had winning blocks, but that's it).
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 17:00   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neo



Everyone will know?
So why are people still figthing over which was the best alliance at that round (Yes, we've had winning blocks, but that's it).


There are people who still believe the earth is flat. Unfortunately in my statement I failed to make allowances for rampant idiocy. Everyone who actually thinks about it in a reasonable and rational fashion should be able to recognise the victors. Assuming it won't be incredibly close, which might happen and people don't NAP the last few weeks instead of fighting (which would just be mind-numbingly pointless seeing as this is the last round) we will see a clear victor come the end of the round.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 17:57   #40
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I don't think there are too many people who avoid posting here due to politeness.
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Originally posted by Zeus
lol, why not comment? It is discussion boards afterall isnt it?
As for your opinion, your welcome to it, as am I and everyone else on these forums. Im sure many even have plenty off comments about you, yet are polite enough not to post them in public as it would be obvious that they are doing it for attension or just to moan or "appear big" If you have a problem about someone, posting it in public will only guarenttee it will end in a bad way. Use pm on the forums, use email or even irc to discuss it, thats if you wish to fix the situation at all.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 18:08   #41
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how about i just tell you what alliance i'm in when i win the round and it'll be obvious as to what alliance won (yeah yeah very funny, just dont look at my signature lol).... asides from the fact that it's probably the last round I have NO idea why you care what alliance wins - you'll never get to join it will you?
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 18:10   #42
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FAnG and Fury trying to leave themselves an angle on claiming that they actually won the round no matter what happens. Funny.


I personally will have no problem in listing our members who are located in the top 250, or perhaps more if necessary, if I want to claim that we 'won'. Early days yet tho.
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 19:26   #43
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Again - in my opinion, THIS ROUND no alliance can claim "victory" that not went completely on it's own.

The alliance having #1-spot (planetwise) at the end of the round can claim that they worked well and achieved something - no doubt about it. But not to have "won" the last round.

Besides that, this corrupt and stinking micro-society PA has evolved to, became far to unworthy that anyone from their middle can claim to be better than anyone else. And besides that there are nice individuals who deserve to win. And besides that - you get my point?
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 20:15   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lerxst
Again - in my opinion, THIS ROUND no alliance can claim "victory" that not went completely on it's own.

The alliance having #1-spot (planetwise) at the end of the round can claim that they worked well and achieved something - no doubt about it. But not to have "won" the last round.

Besides that, this corrupt and stinking micro-society PA has evolved to, became far to unworthy that anyone from their middle can claim to be better than anyone else. And besides that there are nice individuals who deserve to win. And besides that - you get my point?
So your idea of winning is only total annihilation? I respect that, it's a perspective thing. Imo tho, a football league champion is the winner if he has more points then the 2nd on the list. I think there is some carry-over logic to pa there...
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 20:31   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neo
So your idea of winning is only total annihilation?
Oh no... far away from that. NO ONE can dominate this round as a single alliance and exactly THIS was what was the reason why I bothered to sign up again. But to "win" we see now again n alliances team up against m others and so on. So in MY personal opinion those who not had the balls of going solo all through the round, no matter how hard it would have become lost in the second they teamed up.

I consider PA as a mixture between points and (because it STILL is a game, at least for some of us) fun. Though, I have to take in account some criterias for fun/challenge. Like I said before the round started, one of the criterias I would have introduced would have been the going-solo... But that's just my personal point of view as one of those who look for a challenge and for fun instead for top-spots.


Quote:
I respect that, it's a perspective thing. Imo tho, a football league champion is the winner if he has more points then the 2nd on the list. I think there is some carry-over logic to pa there...
Yes and no. PA is not football and if you like to count pointwise you have to introduce a measure for this. E.g. who has the most members, the oldest member, most score of all together, most average score, most roids, most successful attacks, most tags and so on... But who set criteria? It was not set at the beginning and now the different alliances will claim different methods of measurement.

Still I say that those who teamed up on a larger scale than merging two or three "n00b" alliances with 10-30 members have not the first right to claim victory. But then it comes to my mind that I don't really care about who claims to have won it...
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 20:38   #46
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 21:45   #47
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Winners of this round can only be achieved by who dominates top 25 or top 50. Total alliance points and score for every member is irrelevant and faulty as the losing alliance can still so to speak have a higher combined total than the winning alliance.

Example alliance A has 30 members and 17 of them are in the top 25, Alliance B has 350 members and only 3 members in top 25. Alliance A has 34 mil combined score while alliance B has 150 mil combined score. Anyway you get the point.

The winners of this round will be determined by domination of the top 50 or top 25.
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r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 21:54   #48
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I agree with mostly everything you said Lerxst.

About the point system, that's what I want us to discuiss here. If we could find some critieria that most people recognised as a valid critieria, we could for once announce a single winner for the last round.

Many people want the #1 alliance spot, higher then the #1 planet spot. I am one of them, and I'd be very interested seeing a clear win this round.

Heh, perhaps a world cup is the answer. Alliance vs alliance... on one host planet on the last day.
hmm... I better get back to work, only babbling crap now
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:12   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neo
I agree with mostly everything you said Lerxst.
:eek:

Quote:
About the point system, that's what I want us to discuiss here. If we could find some critieria that most people recognised as a valid critieria, we could for once announce a single winner for the last round.
It has to be a system where two factors should be taken into account imo: the "military" factor (because it's a war-game) and a "fun" factor (because it's a war-game). Holding the #1-planet is not the best indicator when looking at how good an alliance does. Some alliances look for EVERY member, some only for the top-members. Both may perform on the same level. But how can alliance-performance be measured? There comes avarage score into my mind, but this would allow some "last-minute" alliances or agreements between the top-planets or corrupt actions of alliances paying IRL for high-ranked planets.

For example in my view, I would say that those alliances are performing really good, that can provide their members with fun and good protection and good raids. But then again - how to measure? After thinking of this and that I came to a conclusion...

Quote:
Many people want the #1 alliance spot, higher then the #1 planet spot. I am one of them, and I'd be very interested seeing a clear win this round.
...I fear that this round happens what every round happens - each alliance who did quite well will claim victory to a certain extend. And - most of them will have ever right to do so This is still a game and according to human nature everyone will try to shout out "I have won!" at the end of it. And most will find a reason why they "won".

Hmm... after thinking about it I would set up another ranking-system - let the alliance with the least flame-others-posts and the least propaganda give some extra points... But as long as I have fun, I will end this game with the feeling that I have won something - if not the whole game
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Unread 16 Nov 2002, 22:19   #50
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alliance with most planets in top 50 = winner
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r1 ??:??:?? Phalanx_WLF of Kadan
r2 9:23:1 Axis_WLF of Kadan : Blluetuba/Legion
r3 6:24:1 Axis_WLF of kadan : Legion/WolfPack
r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
r5 13:6:2 Sun Tzu of Art of War : Legion Command
r6 33:13:?? : Legion Command
r7 15:19:12 Unknown soldier run over by a wagon : Legion Command
R8: 28:8:9 Niccolo Machiavelli of Revera Legatus : TITAN COMMAND BC
R12 ??:??:?? 1up Military Officer
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