Why aren't wars between alliances as profitable as before?

[Veil05]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Last thing first, no, it only shows the multihunters inability to actually act on their own rules regarding new discovered cheating and their inability to punish the inventive cheaters like elviz whom obviously have many ways to cheat the multihunters haven't even discovered yet. This round they did remove the salvage from his galdef suiciding on an obviously lost wave though, so entirely helpless they're not but that would never have happened if they had acted on the numerous accounts on attempting cheating he tried before that plus the fact that i brought up in this thread: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=195059 and until the multihunters actually acknowledge the importance of closing cheaters and keeping them out of the game indefinitely .

OMG?! Have you actually heard what you're saying? say it out loud.

"elviz is cheating, just no-one has found our how he is doing it(but he definetly is doing it). His way of cheating is so complex that multi-hunters have'nt figured it out yet"

Its kind of creepy.

About the salvage issue, elviz never asked anyone to crash on his planet, infact quiet the oppposite. We were under the impression we would be fine. A little sneeky tactic yes, however its not farming of any sort.

Originally Posted by Kargool

Achi got closed because they could "prove" it and that it seems like the multihunters decided to act on the cheating they cared about based on knowledge and contacts.

Again, Achi shouldnt have been closed it wasnt cheating. However, they were looking for a reason to close anyone that round. Elviz must have been some magician who foiled them though.

Originally Posted by Kargool

To your first issue, let me just refer you to your own claim in the now closed post about rinoa:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...63&postcount=6

Basing your "assumptions" on something someone randomly said in a conversation with you, instead of asking for more relevant confirmation from the people who actually did know anything just proves how little you checked your sources before you called out a claim like that.

I have applogiesed for this. Rinoa im sorry i said you sucked, you clearly dont.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Veil05

OMG?! Have you actually heard what you're saying? say it out loud.

"elviz is cheating, just no-one has found our how he is doing it(but he definetly is doing it). His way of cheating is so complex that multi-hunters have'nt figured it out yet"

Its kind of creepy.

About the salvage issue, elviz never asked anyone to crash on his planet, infact quiet the oppposite. We were under the impression we would be fine. A little sneeky tactic yes, however its not farming of any sort.

Wow, are you saying that you guys didnt know you were all gonna die while defending him on that wave?

If only someone had warned you guys about it!

Wait a minute, whats this:

Originally Posted by log

<Kargool> they are just salvage donating him anyway if they stay
<Claire> by killing elviz does a tgv planet win?
<Kargool> by killing your own ships ct may pass TGV.

Needless to say, you all knew what was happening, and you all wanted to donate your resources to him that way, that constitutes farming, and its a wonder that you all didnt get closed.

[JonnyBGood]

In fairness last round people actually donated someone to the win and nothing happened. I certainly wouldn't have assumed that had been made illegal this round given the rules didn't actually change.

[Kargool]

Well, seing as they made the donation by galfund less probable of affecting the round, and the fact that they always remove ships when there is obvious fleet donation (resource donation) going on, i would assume that most people knows its illegal and not allowed.

They just found an inventive way to try and avoid it, to bad the rule they were breaking was allready in the eula.

[JonnyBGood]

Which rule did you think was broken?

[Veil05]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Well, seing as they made the donation by galfund less probable of affecting the round, and the fact that they always remove ships when there is obvious fleet donation (resource donation) going on, i would assume that most people knows its illegal and not allowed.

They just found an inventive way to try and avoid it, to bad the rule they were breaking was allready in the eula.

Lets be honest now Kargool, you're initial post claimed elviz was a cheater & you didnt suggest elviz should join TGV .

Both points have been addressed and you're actually wrong on all counts. I think its clear to me (and hopefully a few others) that you have some built up animosity toward elviz.

Sorry to have derailed the thread. Hopefully get it back on track now

[lokken]

i never understood why support is bad but donations are good.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Veil05

Lets be honest now Kargool, you're initial post claimed elviz was a cheater & you didnt suggest elviz should join TGV .

Both points have been addressed and you're actually wrong on all counts. I think its clear to me (and hopefully a few others) that you have some built up animosity toward elviz.

Sorry to have derailed the thread. Hopefully get it back on track now

Gee, you just wont give up. I can agree that we seem to disagree clearly and nothing else.

[Ave]

Originally Posted by Stoom

The main reason wars aren't 'profitable' is because alliances these days don't choose to play in that style or can't find the members to do so.
Personal gain and short term profit is in the way here.
Which is the main motivation for top players, as far as I've seen it progress throughout the rounds.
If you manage to carefully pick members who just do what they're told, have high stamina and morale, wars are profitable. (Like 1up r11/12, eXi r13/15, etc.)
This however is a pain in the ass because most of the players these days won't bother to put in the effort or are just plain selfish.

The problems are not the game or it's conditions, but the players themselves.

You are so correct, a few good games (clones of planetarion) has been killed by selfish players and bad politics allready and I dont think the way of gaming differs a lot in here. Only difference is all play on low level in here, so the situation and game stay even and competetive for everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Yeah. That's possible, true, for most cases, it'd mean quite a little bit of dirt tossing. Besides, what would the poor mercs do then?

thats really possible, but usually lefts u out with less competetive players when you keep so called high standards in your recruiting and also makes u underdogg in size.

The few mercs wont damage your alliance yet, just brings some nessesary score and high ranks to upkeep your chances to victory. Aslong as majority of your alliance are the "hardworking" alliance players. Anyhow eventually when people realise playing as mercs brings the high ranks, more and more people choose the way of gaming and eventually kills the alliance and the whole game play. Which has happened more or less in bigger scale allready.

People need to change their attitudes to see the real and fun battles, which first hooked us up in these stupid games. Forget your forums egos

[Alki]

Originally Posted by Veil05

Yes, its super that you have reported him so many times because he is a cheater with no morals. Funny, his account was'nt closed? You cant say multi-hunters were not doing there jobs because Achilles was closed for scanning. Clearly this proves they were if anything over reacting to slightest bit of "cheating" (if you can even call it that)?

to be fair the shit that happened with elviz last round was pretty lollable, i know of 2 instances there may be more but i was pretty inactive last round.

One was where he got donated alot of terran BS, the multihunters decided to remove the ships from his planet though. Why did they remove them? If he wasnt cheating why couldnt he keep them? If they were donated why wasnt he closed?

The other was with regards to the salvage donations he recieved, why was the salvage taken away if he wasnt cheating? If he was cheating then why wasnt he closed?

Its all pretty funny stuff in the end, I seem to recall a pretty dubious scorpion donation aswell, im sure there was alot more, anyway its water under the bridge and hopefully shit like this will be more clearer for next round.

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Alki

to be fair the shit that happened with elviz last round was pretty lollable, i know of 2 instances there may be more but i was pretty inactive last round.

I'm confused with the passage of time and the definition of last round. Was last round 21 or 22? If it was 22, I have no clue, but if it was 21, wasn't Elviz closed and deleted that round, for reasons I've never seen a public "announcement" about?

Originally Posted by JBG

Which rule did you think was broken?

Quite staggeringly, I asked Assassin late round 17 if I could ask Omen community members (there were back then a lot playing PIA) just to join the Omen tag, put up a pair of refineries and asteroids, and keep donating to the alliance fund for the whole round. After this I'd just slam the resources fast enough to my own planet, build trash, and end up top10. He said it's forbidden because of the support planet rule (though 1up had resource donation planets in it's tag that round, which Assassin allowed). Later on, this was made impossible with the mechanical changes to alliance fund.

[JonnyBGood]

He said it's forbidden because of the support planet rule (though 1up had resource donation planets in it's tag that round, which Assassin allowed).

I'm fairly sure this expressly is allowed now. I recall reading that if you can get 69 other planets into a tag and support yourself to #1 this is fine (one would imagine this is the same reasoning that meant greenhills victory wasn't deemed to be due to support planets). I said to fiery and ace a few days ago, and I think they agreed, that given the large differences in interpretation the support planet rule has experienced under different multihunters a much clearer and more objective set of guidelines is highly desirable.

[Mzyxptlk]

Alki was talking about r22. The Scorpion donation he refers to was along the lines of 8k scorp around tick 800, if I remember correctly.